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Hall of Merit
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Thursday, June 27, 2019

Most Meritorious Player: 1917 Ballot

For 1917 each voter should rank the top 10 players from all leagues combined.

Balloting is scheduled to close at 4pm EDT on 3 July 2019. (Let me know if you need an extension due to the holiday)

Anyone can vote, even if you do not normally participate in Hall of Merit discussions. If you have never participated in an MMP election, just post a preliminary ballot in the discussion thread by 2 July 2019.

For detailed rules see one of our previous ballots.

DL from MN Posted: June 27, 2019 at 05:51 PM | 8 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   1. DL from MN Posted: June 27, 2019 at 06:10 PM (#5856539)
1917 Ballot

1) Ty Cobb - this is a monster season
2) Joe Williams - Best pitcher
3) Pete Alexander - 388 IP
4) Heinie Groh - almost as good at bat as Hornsby with a lot more glove
5) Rogers Hornsby
6) Tris Speaker - 2nd best bat
7) Eddie Cicotte - postseason bonus moves him up a slot
8) Ray Chapman
9) Dick Redding - the other great black pitcher this season
10) Louis Santop - one of his best seasons hitting

11-15) John Henry Lloyd, George Burns, Jim Bagby, Bobby Veach, Art Fletcher
16-19) Eddie Collins, Stan Coveleski, Walter Johnson, Babe Ruth
   2. MrC. Posted: June 29, 2019 at 09:26 AM (#5856968)
1917 ballot

1. Ty Cobb. 13.41 WARR
2. Eddie Cicotte 10.67 WARR
3. Pete Alexander 10.35 WARR
4. Walter Johnson 9.42 WARR
5. Rogers Hornsby 9.29 WARR
6. Art Fletcher 8.49 WARR
7. Ray Chapman 8.39 WARR
8. Bobby Veach 8.33 WARR
9. Tris Speaker 8.17 WARR
10. Joe Williams 7.46 WARR

Rest of the top 15
11. Stan Coveleski
12. John Donaldson
13. Heinie Groh
14. Babe Ruth
15. George Burns
   3. Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handle Posted: July 01, 2019 at 11:57 PM (#5858042)
Final ballot-no postseason credit but some small credit for playing for a Pennant-contender

1. Ty Cobb--amazing year, produced a ton of runs
2. Pete Alexander--MMP has made me appreciate Alexander, he was a dominant workhorse pitching in a tough ballpark
3. Eddie Cicotte--top AL pitcher
4. Rogers Hornsby--top NL position player, strong defensive year
5. Tris Speaker --very close to Hornsby
6. Joe Williams
7. Jim Bagby
8. Stan Coveleski--Cleveland had one heck of a pitching staff
9. Joe Jackson
10.Babe Ruth--bat helped him squeak in, I suspect we'll see this guy again

   4. bjhanke Posted: July 02, 2019 at 03:29 AM (#5858058)
This is Brock Hanke’s ballot for 1917. The big surprise for me was that Pop Lloyd and Smokey Joe Williams continued to be the best “colored” (meaning negro and Latin American) position player and pitcher. I was expecting Dick Redding to take over the #1 pitching spot, but that just didn’t happen. Oscar Charleston is still young, and will take over from Lloyd sooner or later. Cristobal Torriente keeps being exceptional, but he’s just not Pop Lloyd. DL has Heinie Groh ahead of Rogers Hornsby, who was a shortstop in 1917. Win Shares thinks that this might be reasonable. They have Hornsby ranked fourth, and Groh fifth. WAR does not agree, though, ranking Hornsby third and Groh thirteenth. Groh ended up in a tie with Ray Chapman in my collated ordinals system, but the consensus is much better with Chapman. Win Shares has him ranked tenth, and WAR has him eighth. When a tie like that happens, I almost always go with the guy who has the better consensus. As usual, trying to decide where to fit the colored players on the list is largely subjective. Tubbs mentioned Pete Alexander's ballpark, which was, of course, the Baker Bowl. I have thought about that for many years. How could anyone pitch like that in THAT ballpark. The only thing I can suggest is that everything Pete Alexander had must have sunk like a stone. You can win in the BB if you get ground balls. You cannot win there if you give up fly balls.

1. Ty Cobb
2. Pete Alexander
3. Rogers Hornsby
4. Eddie Cicotte
5. Babe Ruth
6. Pop Lloyd
7. Tris Speaker
8. Smokey Joe Williams
9. Jim Bagby
10. Ray Chapman
   5. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: July 02, 2019 at 05:23 PM (#5858390)
Official 1917 MMP Ballot (no postseason bonuses and a 3% reduction for NL players):

1) Ty Cobb: Best ML player and center fielder by quite a lot.
2) Louis Santop: Best NL player and ML/NeL catcher - one of the greatest seasons at that position.
3) Smokey Joe Williams: Best ML/NeL pitcher and it's not really close, IMO.
4) Pete Alexander: Best NL pitcher.
5) Babe Ruth: Best AL pitcher.
6) Cristóbal Torriente: Best NeL center fielder.
7) Eddie Cicotte: Best season by one of the Black Sox.
8) Tris Speaker: Best season by a prematurely-gray player.
9) Heinie Groh: Best ML third baseman.
10) Carl Mays/: Best ML submariner.
   6. Michael J. Binkley's anxiety closet Posted: July 02, 2019 at 09:39 PM (#5858477)
1917 MMP Ballot:

1) Ty Cobb (38.00)
2) Eddie Cicotte (29.42) - MMPitcher
3) Rogers Hornsby (28.44) - NL MMP
4) Pete Alexander (24.83) - NL MMPitcher
5) Tris Speaker (20.30)
6) Ray Chapman (18.85)
7) Joe Williams (17.92) - NgL MMP
8) John Donaldson (17.15)
9) Art Fletcher (16.80)
10) Jim Bagby (16.10)

11-16) Stan Coveleski, Walter Johnson, Babe Ruth, Bobby Veach, Heinie Groh. Pop Lloyd is NgL MMPosition Player.

mWAR All-Star team:

c- Louis Santop
1b - George Sisler
2b - Eddie Collins
ss - Rogers Hornsby
3b - Heinie Groh
lf - Bobby Veach
cf - Ty Cobb
rf - Gavvy Cravath

sp - Eddie Cicotte
sp - Pete Alexander
sp - Joe Williams
sp - John Donaldson
   7. Qufini Posted: July 03, 2019 at 04:57 PM (#5858728)
1917 ballot

1. Ty Cobb, CF, Detroit Tigers: a dominant season for the Georgia Peach
2. Rogers Hornsby, SS, St. Louis Cardinals: leads the NL with 169 OPS+; adds +18 fielding
3. Cannonball Dick Redding, P, Chicago American Giants: edges Cicotte as top pitcher with 265 ERA+ in 153 innings
4. Eddie Cicotte, P, Chicago White Sox: leads AL with 174 ERA+ and 346 IP
5. Pete Alexander, P, Philadelphia Phillies: 388 IP leads NL; 154 ERA+ is 2nd
6. Tris Speaker, CF, Cleveland Indians: 2nd in AL with 172 OPS+ and 108 RC
7. John Henry Lloyd, SS, Chicago American Giants: 175 OPS+ as a shortstop
8. Stan Coveleski, P, Cleveland Indians: 2nd in AL with 156 ERA+
9. Heinie Groh, 3B, Cincinnati Reds: 148 OPS+ and +3 fielding at the hot corner
10. Smoky Joe Williams, P, New York Lincoln Giants: similar rate as Redding with 263 ERA+ but only 101 IP in league play

11. Jim Bagby, P, Cleveland Indians
12. Hippo Vaughn, P, Chicago Cubs
13. Ray Chapman, SS, Cleveland Indians
14. Bobby Veach, LF, Detroit Tigers
15. Carl Mays, P, Boston Red Sox
   8. DL from MN Posted: July 09, 2019 at 10:09 AM (#5860271)
election is over, results soon

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