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Friday, March 23, 2018

Most Meritorious Player: 1941 Ballot

For 1941 each voter should rank the top 10 players from all leagues combined.

Balloting is scheduled to close at 4pm EDT on 4 April 2018.

Anyone can vote, even if you do not normally participate in Hall of Merit discussions. If you have never participated in an MMP election, just post a preliminary ballot in the discussion thread by 3 April 2018.

For detailed rules see one of our previous ballots.

DL from MN Posted: March 23, 2018 at 11:57 AM | 12 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   1. DL from MN Posted: March 23, 2018 at 03:16 PM (#5642401)
1941 Prelim

1) Ted Williams - best hitter that ever lived
2) Joe DiMaggio - at his peak also
3) Thornton Lee - lots of innings with good rate stats
4) Cecil Travis - Good bat, decent glove
5) Pete Reiser - Very good glove season, great bat too
6) Bob Feller - dropoff from 1940 but still pitched 360 innings
7) Charlie Keller - strong postseason moves him ahead of Camilli
8) Dolph Camilli - best bat not named Williams or DiMaggio
9) Bucky Walters - top pitchers had so many innings
10) Josh Gibson - not as dominant as 1940 but still the top black ballplayer

11-15) Ray Brown, Elmer Riddle, Whit Wyatt, Joe Cronin, Hilton Smith
16-20) Monte Irvin, Bus Clarkson, Dixie Walker, Jeff Heath, Bill Byrd
   2. Chris Fluit Posted: March 24, 2018 at 09:15 AM (#5642610)
1941 Ballot

1. Ted Williams, LF, Boston Red Sox: one of the greatest seasons of all-time, 235 OPS+ and 183 RC
2. Joe DiMaggio, CF, New York Yankees: 184 OPS+, 152 RC and +8 fielding would be MMP most seasons
3. Thornton Lee, P, Chicago White Sox: career year for Lee with MLB leading 174 ERA+ in 300 IP
4. Cecil Travis, SS, Washington Senators: 150 OPS+ and 129 RC while playing a glove-first position
5. Whit Wyatt, P, Brooklyn Dodgers: narrowly edges out his teammate as best in the NL
6. Pete Reiser, CF, Brooklyn Dodgers: top position player in the NL
7. Buck Leonard, 1B, Homestead Grays: best player in the Negro Leagues with an eye-popping 240 OPS+
8. Bob Feller, P, Cleveland Indians: 343 IP crushes the competition, though paired with only a 125 ERA+
9. Charlie Keller, LF, New York Yankees: King Kong had a 162 OPS+
10. Dolph Camilli, 1B, Brooklyn Dodgers: same offensive numbers as Reiser but lesser defense at lesser position places him here

11. Jeff Heath, LF, Cleveland
12. Bucky Walters, P, Cincinnati
13. Joe Cronin, SS, Boston
14. Dave Barnhill, P, New York Cubans: 127 ERA+ and 102 OPS+ makes him a true dual threat
15. Elmer Riddle, P, Cincinnati: led the NL with a 161 ERA+
   3. Chris Fluit Posted: March 24, 2018 at 09:20 AM (#5642612)
1941 Ballot Revised

I realized that I gave Barnhill credit for hitting but not Ray Brown.

1. Ted Williams, LF, Boston Red Sox: one of the greatest seasons of all-time, 235 OPS+ and 183 RC
2. Joe DiMaggio, CF, New York Yankees: 184 OPS+, 152 RC and +8 fielding would be MMP most seasons
3. Thornton Lee, P, Chicago White Sox: career year for Lee with MLB leading 174 ERA+ in 300 IP
4. Cecil Travis, SS, Washington Senators: 150 OPS+ and 129 RC while playing a glove-first position
5. Whit Wyatt, P, Brooklyn Dodgers: narrowly edges out his teammate as best in the NL
6. Pete Reiser, CF, Brooklyn Dodgers: top position player in the NL
7. Buck Leonard, 1B, Homestead Grays: best player in the Negro Leagues with an eye-popping 240 OPS+
8. Bob Feller, P, Cleveland Indians: 343 IP crushes the competition, though paired with only a 125 ERA+
9. Charlie Keller, LF, New York Yankees: King Kong had a 162 OPS+
10. Ray Brown, P, Homestead Grays: 141 ERA+ and 118 OPS+

11. Dolph Camilli, 1B, Brooklyn Dodgers: same offensive numbers as Reiser but lesser defense at lesser position places him here
12. Jeff Heath, LF, Cleveland
13. Bucky Walters, P, Cincinnati
14. Joe Cronin, SS, Boston
15. Dave Barnhill, P, New York Cubans: 127 ERA+ and 102 OPS+ makes him a true dual threat
16. Elmer Riddle, P, Cincinnati: led the NL with a 161 ERA+
   4. Michael J. Binkley's anxiety closet Posted: March 31, 2018 at 11:49 AM (#5646164)
1941 MMP Ballot:

First, a quick explanation of how I evaluate Negro League players, since we're entering the territory where they need to be evaluated for this project. If available, my preferred WAR reference is Dr. Chaleeko's new MLE's at his blog -with a couple of exceptions - 1) He projects the players to where he expected them to play in MLB - I keep them at the positions which they played in the NeLs; and 2) in years that data isn't available at Seamheads, he uses a career average method. I will use that unless one of the following MLE's is available: 1. Dan Rosenheck (which has a positional WAA adjustment similar to mine baked in, so I don't change it) or 2. Alex King (which I adjust by positional WAA). Both of these exceptions apply to Josh Gibson this year, thus I use DanR's numbers.

As always, number in parentheses is rate-based salary estimation divided by $1M.

1. Ted Williams (30.69)
2. Josh Gibson (24.33)- DanR has him at 9.2 WAR for this season, thus narrowly edging out
3. Joe DiMaggio (24.15)
4. Pete Reiser (18.66) - NL MMP
5. Charlie Keller (17.36)
6. Thornton Lee (16.28) - MMPitcher
7. Whit Wyatt (16.17) - NL MMPItcher
8. Dolph Camilli (14.39)
9. Bob Feller (14.11)
10. Monte Irvin (12.61) - I have him at SS for 1941

11-15. Cecil Travis, Joe Gordon, Ray Brown, Dixie Walker, Elbie Fletcher

1941 All-Stars:

c - Josh Gibson
1b - Dolph Camilli
2b - Joe Gordon
3b - Stan Hack
ss - Monte Irvin
lf - Ted Williams
cf - Joe DiMaggio
rf - Dixie Walker

sp - Thornton Lee, Whit Wyatt, Bob Feller, Ray Brown, Bucky Walters
   5. bjhanke Posted: April 01, 2018 at 04:45 PM (#5646528)
This is Brock Hanke's 1941 Ballot. Again, there was a strong general consensus between Win Shares and WAR as to who were the top players. This is much easier than trying to figure out all the biases in current Win Share / WAR rankings. King Kong Keller gets a postseason bonus. No one else who finished near the Top Ten did. Other than that putting him at the top of a three-way tie for fifth spot, I didn't move anyone from their Ordinal Rankings spots. I also didn't add any Negro players this year. Nobody detonates those leagues this year. Monte Irvin, with extra defense value due to playing Shortstop, would probably have been my choice if I had to make one.

So, for ease of tabulation, here's the list:

1. Ted Williams
2. Joe DiMaggio
3. Thornton Lee, having his career year, IIRC
4. Pete Reiser
5. King Kong Keller
6. Cecil Travis
7. Bob Feller
8. Dolph Camilli
9. Whit Wyatt
10. Stan Hack
   6. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: April 02, 2018 at 12:24 PM (#5646844)
Official 1941 MMP Ballot (no postseason bonuses and a little deduction for AL players):

1) Ted Williams: Best ML player and left fielder.
2) Josh Gibson: Best NeL player and ML/NeL catcher - with a catcher bonus, very close to Teddy Ballgame.
3) Cecil Travis: Best AL player and ML third baseman - yeah, I was also surprised to see him above #4.
4) Joe DiMaggio: Best ML center fielder.
5) Pete Reiser: Best NL player and center fielder.
6) Thornton Lee: Best ML pitcher.
7) Stan Hack: Best NL third baseman.
8) Elmer Riddle: Best NL pitcher.
9) Bob Feller: Not as good as the year before, but still great.
10) Charlie Keller: Best player nicknamed after a large, fictional ape.

   7. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: April 03, 2018 at 07:02 AM (#5647378)
REVISED Official 1941 MMP Ballot (no postseason bonuses and a little deduction for AL players):

1) Ted Williams: Best ML player and left fielder.
2) Josh Gibson: Best NeL player and ML/NeL catcher - with a catcher bonus, very close to Teddy Ballgame.
3) Joe DiMaggio: Best AL player and ML center fielder.
4) Pete Reiser: Best NL player and center fielder.
5) Cecil Travis: Best ML shortstop.
6) Thornton Lee: Best ML pitcher.
7) Stan Hack: Best ML third baseman.
8) Elmer Riddle: Best NL pitcher.
9) Bob Feller: Not as good as the year before, but still great.
10) Charlie Keller: Best player nicknamed after a large, fictional ape.
   8. MrC. Posted: April 03, 2018 at 04:06 PM (#5647636)
1941 Final Ballot

1. Ted Williams 10.63 WARR
2. Joe DiMaggio 103 WARR
3. Pet Reiser 9.89 WARR
4. Charlie Keller 8.06 WARR including post season adj
5. Dixie Walker 7.75 WARR
6. Max West 7.68 WARR
7. Dolph Camilli 7.46 WARR
8. Bob Feller 6.38 WARR
9. Elbie Fletcher 6.30 WARR
10. Whit Wyatt 6.11 WARR including post season adjustment

Rest of the top 15
Josh Gibson
Elmer Riddle
Thornton Lee
Luke Appling
Bill Nicholson


   9. DL from MN Posted: April 03, 2018 at 05:21 PM (#5647665)
Max West - is there some weird park effect I'm not understanding?
   10. MrC. Posted: April 03, 2018 at 06:50 PM (#5647708)
No one was as surprised as me with West. He was a solid hitter with 22.8 RAA on offense, but where he is great is on on defense (DRA), with +42.3 runs above average. I know the accuracy of defensive numbers is always questionable, but if defense is going to be part of the evaluation, I have to choose a system and stick with it. i just can't ignore those numbers which create results that I don't expect.

The other player whose defensive numbers helped his rating more than normal was Dixie Walker.
   11. Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handle Posted: April 04, 2018 at 08:57 AM (#5647856)
Final ballot-no postseason credit but some small credit for playing for a Division-contender
1. Ted Williams
2. Joe Dimaggio--as stated by DL, big gap to #3
3. Pete Reiser--top NL player
4. Thornton Lee--top pitcher
5. Dolph Camilli
6. Charlie Keller
7. Cecil Travis--was on HOF track before WWII
8. Bob Feller--along with Lee, pitched a ton of innings
9. Whit Wyatt--top NL pitcher
10.Josh Gibson

Despite 97-56 record, Cardinals have no players make top 10, Mize was closest of the group
   12. DL from MN Posted: April 04, 2018 at 03:16 PM (#5648158)
Everyone who voted in 1940 has voted in 1941

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