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Thursday, April 05, 2018

Most Meritorious Player: 1942 Discussion

Most Meritorious Player: 1942 Discussion

The Cardinals beat the Yankees 4-1 in the World Series. Kansas City Monarchs swept the Homestead Grays 4-0. Vote for 10.

Player			SH WS		BBR WAR
Ted Williams		46.3		10.5	
Enos Slaughter		37.5		6.2
Charlie Keller		34.3		6.7
Johnny Pesky		28.2		5.5
Joe Gordon		30.9		8.2
Mel Ott			35.3		6.3
Joe DiMaggio		34.2		6.1
Stan Musial		28.7		5.3
Johnny Mize		31.7		6.0
Phil Rizzuto		25.1		5.7
Bobby Doerr		24.3		5.5
Pee Wee Reese		27.4		5.7
Bill Nicholson		27.6		5.8
Dom DiMaggio		28.1		5.1
Lonny Frey		23.7		5.2
Stan Hack		26.2		4.9
Dolph Camilli		27.4		4.9
Harlond Clift		24.5		3.8
Wally Judnich		25.2		5.1
Lou Boudreau		21.9		4.5
Elbie Fletcher		25.3		5.0
Marty Marion		22.8		4.7
Pete Reiser		28.1		4.2
Les Fleming		28.2		4.6
Barney McCosky		19.7		2.6
Chet Laabs		22.9		3.8
Ernie Lombardi		15.8		3.9
Bob Johnson		25.9		3.9
Luke Appling		20.0		2.7
Dixie Walker		18.8		2.9
Jeff Heath		23.1		3.5
Ken Keltner		19.4		2.8
Walker Cooper		16.3		2.4

Josh Gibson		19.7		2.7
Bus Clarkson		16.7		3.1
Ted Strong		11.9		2.1
Willard Brown		10.6		1.9
Lennie Pearson		15.0		3.0
Willie Wells		10.8		1.7
Wild Bill Wright	10.2		1.8
Bonnie Serrell		10.2		1.8
		

Pitcher			SH WS		BBR WAR
Mort Cooper		28.0		8.3
Tex Hughson		27.0		6.3
Ted Lyons		20.5		5.1
Hal White		18.3		5.3
Ray Starr		21.3		4.9
Johnny Vander Meer	20.7		4.6
Al Benton		17.7		4.7
Johnny Humphries	19.6		4.2
Dizzy Trout		14.7		4.2
Tiny Bonham		21.6		3.8
Hal Newhouser		16.3		4.1
Tommy Bridges		14.9		2.9
Johnny Niggeling	17.1		4.3
Tommy Hughes		19.5		3.2
Johnny Beazley		21.0		4.2
Virgil Trucks		15.3		3.6
Bucky Walters		18.3		4.1
Spud Chandler		17.9		3.2
Curt Davis		18.2		3.3

Leon Day		14.9		5.0
Roy Partlow		6.7		3.8
Bill Byrd		11.9		2.5
Jonas Gaines		7.5		2.6
Jack Matchett		6.2		2.3
Satchel Paige		6.4		2.4
Max Manning		7.3		2.3
Ray Brown		7.1		2.1
Barney Brown		8.4		1.6
DL from MN Posted: April 05, 2018 at 02:49 PM | 12 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   1. DL from MN Posted: April 05, 2018 at 02:54 PM (#5648792)
Another year for Ted Williams to top my ballot. Leon Day had a career year in the NGL.
   2. DL from MN Posted: April 06, 2018 at 12:55 PM (#5649322)
Among the Negro Leaguers I really only see three candidates for the top 10 - Gibson, Clarkson and Leon Day. Clarkson led the league with a 196 OPS+ and played SS. Gibson hit a 184 OPS+ and played C. Leon Day led the league in ERA+, played CF in his off days and hit to a 145 OPS+.

I don't have much nagging doubt ranking Clarkson above Pesky as the best SS in baseball. Gibson is clearly better than Ernie Lombardi as the best C in baseball.
   3. DL from MN Posted: April 06, 2018 at 01:35 PM (#5649343)
I have Clarkson near the top of my ballot. Gibson near the bottom again. Leon Day I'm treating as a weird amalgam of Dixie Walker and Ted Lyons.

1942 Prelim

1) Ted Williams - one of his better fielding seasons, the glove makes up for the drop in offense from 1941 and his 1942 scores higher than last season
2) Leon Day - would he have been a two-way player in the big leagues? I don't care. He was an extraordinary one for two different NGL teams.
3) Bus Clarkson - best bat in NGL, decent SS too
4) Enos Slaughter
5) Charlie Keller
6) Johnny Pesky
7) Joe Gordon - won the MVP but his fielding numbers are not impressive this season
8) Mel Ott
9) Mort Cooper
10) Josh Gibson - first eval, may need to be adjusted

11-15) Stan Musial, Johnny Mize, Phil Rizzuto, Bobby Doerr, Pee Wee Reese
16-21) Bill Nicholson, Ted Lyons, Ted Strong, Dom Dimaggio, Joe DiMaggio, Hal White
   4. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: April 12, 2018 at 08:27 PM (#5652694)
Prelim:

1) Ted Williams
2) Josh Gibson
3) Enos Slaughter
4) Mel Ott
5) Charlie Keller
6) Johnny Mize
7) Mort Cooper
8) Joe DiMaggio
9) Joe Gordon
10) Pete Reiser

AL CYA: Tex Hughson (#11)
   5. DL from MN Posted: April 18, 2018 at 12:33 PM (#5655931)
Paige, Jack Matchett and Hilton Smith pitched well in the 1942 Negro World Series (when they could locate Satchel).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1942_Negro_World_Series

"The Monarchs actually won the 1942 series 5-1, but a second game played in Yankee Stadium on September 13 (a seven-inning victory by the Monarchs) was not counted by prior agreement, and the only game played in Kansas City was thrown out on appeal when the Grays used unauthorized players from other NNL teams."

Leon Day was one of the "ringers" in the game they threw out.
   6. DL from MN Posted: April 18, 2018 at 12:39 PM (#5655936)
More from Wiki on the "ringer" game where Leon Day outclassed Satchel Paige

The Monarchs protested the use of "ringers" before the start of the game, but played the game under protest for the fans who showed up. After the game, Grays owner Cum Posey, faced with several injuries (including Sam Bankhead's broken arm and Roy Partlow developing a painful boil under his pitching arm), signed shortstop Bus Clarkson from the Philadelphia Stars and pitcher Leon Day, outfielder Ed Stone and second baseman Lenny Pearson from the Newark Eagles for the remainder of the series. Posey claimed that he had lost two other players, Carlisle and Whatley, to the military draft. The Monarchs vocally objected to the use of "ringers" before the start of the game, but played the game under official protest for the fans who showed up.

After the game, Posey claimed that he had received verbal permission to sign the players from Monarchs co-owner Tom Baird in a meeting in New York, but the details of that meeting were never publicized and the Monarchs other owner, J.L. Wilkinson, denied knowledge of any such agreement. Monarchs secretary and business manager William "Dizzy" Dismukes stated "We didn't play the Homestead Grays. We lost to the National League All-Stars."
   7. DL from MN Posted: April 18, 2018 at 01:01 PM (#5655955)
In the four games that counted, Monarch second baseman Bonnie Serrell made ten hits and shortstop Jesse Williams stole five bases.


Doesn't look good for Josh Gibson's skill behind the plate that series
   8. DL from MN Posted: April 18, 2018 at 01:42 PM (#5655986)
1942 World Series
Player Name  G  AB  R  H  2B  3B  HR  RBI  BB  SO  BA  OBP  SLG  OPS  SB  CS  E
Marty Marion 5 18 2 2 0 1 0 3 1 2 .111 .158 .222 .380 0 0 0 
Stan Musial 5 18 2 4 1 0 0 2 4 0 .222 .364 .278 .641 0 1 0
Enos Slaughter 5 19 3 5 1 0 1 2 3 2 .263 .364 .474 .837 0 0 1

Joe DiMaggio 5 21 3 7 0 0 0 3 0 1 .333 .333 .333 .667 0 0 0
Joe Gordon 5 21 1 2 1 0 0 0 0 7 .095 .095 .143 .238 0 0 0 
Charlie Keller 5 20 2 4 0 0 2 5 1 3 .200 .238 .500 .738 0 0 0
Phil Rizzuto 5 21 2 8 0 0 1 1 2 1 .381 .435 .524 .959 2 0 1

Pitcher Name  G  GS  ERA  W  L  SV  CG  IP  H  R  ER  BB  SO  WHIP
Johnny Beazley 2 2 2.50 2 0 0 2 18.0 17 5 5 3 6 1.111 
Mort Cooper 2 2 5.54 0 1 0 0 13.0 17 10 8 4 9 1.615

Tiny Bonham 2 1 4.09 0 1 0 1 11.0 9 5 5 3 3 1.091
Spud Chandler 2 1 1.08 0 1 1 0 8.1 5 1 1 1 3 0.720
   9. DL from MN Posted: April 18, 2018 at 01:52 PM (#5655999)
Rizzuto and Slaughter were the offensive stars. Johnny Beazley led the pitchers winning games 2 and 5. Ernie White threw a shutout in Game 3.
   10. DL from MN Posted: April 19, 2018 at 09:55 AM (#5656381)

Barney Serrell (also known by William C., Bonnie, Bunny, and Sorrell)
Negro Leagues Stats | Minor League Stats | Bio
Career: 1941–1958
Destination: NL 1941–1958
Missing data: 1949-1950, 1955-1957
Year Age Lg Pos PA Rbat Rbaser Rdp Rfield Rpos RAA WAA Rrep RAR WAR
==========================================================================
1942 22 NL 2B 550 14 0 0 7 5 25 2.9 17 42 4.9
   11. Chris Fluit Posted: April 22, 2018 at 09:27 AM (#5657923)
1942 Prelim Ballot

1. Ted Williams, LF, Boston Red Sox: laps the league offensively with an OPS+ 53 pts higher and 50 more RC than 2nd place
2. Mort Cooper, P, St. Louis Cardinals: huge year leading the NL in ERA+ (192) while finishing 2nd in IP (278)
3. Joe Gordon, 2B, New York Yankees: best position player, non-Ted Williams division
4. Josh Gibson, C, Homestead Grays: back in the States with a 182 OPS+
5. Leon Day, P/CF, Newark Eagles: a monster on the mound (223 ERA+) and with the bat (145 OPS+)
6. Tex Hughson, P, Boston Red Sox: top hurler in the AL
7. Charlie Keller, LF, New York Yankees: 163 OPS+ and 118 RC aren't too shabby
8. Mel Ott, RF, New York Giants
9. Enos Slaughter, RF, St. Louis Cardinals: Ott and Slaughter are virtually identical, Ott is first in the NL in OPS+ (165) while Slaughter is first in RC (119)
10. Ernie Lombardi, C, Boston Braves: I love catchers who can hit and Lombardi's 162 OPS+ is 2nd in the NL

11. Johnny Mize, 1B, New York Giants
12. Johnny Pesky, SS, Boston Red Sox
13. Tiny Bonham, P, New York Yankees
14. Bill Nicholson, RF, Chicago Cubs
15. Ted Lyons, P, Chicago White Sox
   12. Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handle Posted: April 27, 2018 at 08:50 AM (#5661503)
Sorry DL, it wouldn't allow me to post in the ballot thread but the Dimaggio I meant is Joe

6. Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handle Posted: April 26, 2018 at 11:35 PM (#5661472)
Final ballot-no postseason credit but some small credit for playing for a Division-contender
1. Williams
2. Cooper
3. Day -very interesting top 3: an AL hitter, a NL pitcher, and hitter/pitcher who played outside MLB
4. Clarkson
5. Gordon
6. Keller
7. Gibson -strong year for NGL
8. Slaughter
9. Dimaggio (Joe)
10.Ott -edges out Mize & Hughson who was top AL pitcher
7. DL from MN Posted: April 27, 2018 at 08:26 AM (#5661496)
Tubbs - will need clarification on which DiMaggio

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