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Wednesday, May 02, 2018

Most Meritorious Player: 1943 Discussion

The exodus of star players to war is significant. The Yankees beat the Cardinals in a World Series rematch. Vote for 10.

Player			SH WS		BBR WAR
Stan Musial		39.4		9.4
Luke Appling		40.6		7.6
Lou Boudreau		30.7		7.9
Charlie Keller		35.2		6.7
Bill Nicholson		31.1		6.9
Joe Gordon		27.7		6.7
Arky Vaughan		28.6		4.6
Lou Klein		25.6		5.8
Augie Galan		28.3		5.4
Bobby Doerr		23.9		5.1
Rudy York		25.4		6.3
Bill Dickey		19.6		3.9
Roy Cullenbine		26.2		4.8
Bob Elliott		24.8		4.5
Billy Herman		26.5		4.7
Ray Mueller		25.1		3.2
Billy Johnson		21.9		3.8
Vern Stephens		21.8		3.6
Eric Tipton		26.6		4.3
Stan Spence		28.2		4.4
Marty Marion		17.6		4.3
Jerry Priddy		20.3		3.3
George Case		25.1		3.4
Lonny Frey		25.3		4.5
Jeff Heath		22.8		4.1
Elbie Fletcher		21.2		4.2
Stan Hack		21.0		3.5
Bob Johnson		19.2		3.1
Vince DiMaggio		20.4		3.2
Tommy Holmes		22.5		3.2
Dick Wakefield		24.0		3.4
Walker Cooper		17.2		3.2

Josh Gibson		35.1		7.1
Willard Brown		20.4		4.0
Tetelo Vargas		12.4		1.9
Larry Doby		8.2		1.7
Buck Leonard		16.5		2.8
Alex Radcliff		9.4		1.8
Howard Easterling	15.2		3.5
Sam Bankhead 		9.9		3.1
		

Pitcher			SH WS		BBR WAR
Spud Chandler		28.2		7.3
Hi Bithorn		18.8		5.3
Schoolboy Rowe		18.7		6.1
Nate Andrews		25.8		5.0
Tommy Bridges		16.5		5.3
Dizzy Trout		22.4		5.6
Rip Sewell		22.8		5.8
Mort Cooper		28.3		5.7
Tiny Bonham		20.3		5.0
Whit Wyatt		14.8		4.9
Tex Hughson		19.6		5.0
Jim Tobin		23.7		4.3
Jesse Flores		14.0		4.5
Denny Galehouse		15.7		3.8
Johnny Niggeling	14.6		3.8
Max Lanier		23.1		4.4
Elmer Riddle		21.8		3.9
Claude Passeau		15.8		4.0
Max Butcher		14.2		3.9
Early Wynn		17.8		3.9
Johnny Van Der Meer	19.3		3.6
Virgil Trucks		16.1		3.7
Howie Pollett		13.7		3.6
Al Javery		22.3		2.2

Johnny Wright		19.4		7.3
Johnny Markham	2.2    	1.6		
Dave Barnhill		13.4		4.0
Bill Byrd		13.4		5.0
Satchel Paige		7.4		2.9
DL from MN Posted: May 02, 2018 at 01:36 PM | 13 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   1. DL from MN Posted: May 02, 2018 at 01:44 PM (#5664543)
List of Negro League players serving in WWII

http://www.baseballinwartime.com/negro.htm

Includes Leon Day, Bus Clarkson, Monte Irvin, Joe Black, Dan Bankhead, Larry Doby, Sammy T Hughes, Ted Strong and Jackie Robinson
   2. DL from MN Posted: May 02, 2018 at 02:01 PM (#5664560)
List of MLB players serving in WWII

http://www.baseballinwartime.com/those_who_served/those_who_served_atoz.htm

Includes Ted Williams, Joe DiMaggio, Dom DiMaggio, Johnny Pesky, Bob Feller, Warren Spahn, Ted Lyons, Pee Wee Reese, Pete Reiser, Johnny Mize, Ralph Kiner, Enos Slaughter, Phil Rizzuto, Tommy Henrich, Hank Greenberg and Cecil Travis
   3. DL from MN Posted: May 03, 2018 at 11:27 AM (#5665205)
Looking over the Negro League players I see two main candidates - Willard Brown and Josh Gibson.

First - you need to adjust the WAR/Win Shares numbers to account for the fact that the Homestead Grays have more recorded games than anyone else. Looking at rate stats for hitters, this is the top 6 on Seamheads
Player Team Pos G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO IBB HBP SH SF DP BA OBP SLG OPS OPS+
Josh Gibson HG/SAS C 77 338 278 101 123 23 9 20 112 5  59   1 0 0  0.442 0.541 0.806 1.347 263
Tetelo Vargas NYC CF 30 136 121 34 57 6 4 0 18 3  15   0 0 0  0.471 0.529 0.587 1.116 200
Willard Brown KCM/SAS CF 52 210 192 34 68 14 2 7 30 4  17   0 1 0  0.354 0.407 0.557 0.964 198
Larry Doby* NE 2B 28 127 103 18 31 8 3 4 22 5  20   1 3 0  0.301 0.419 0.553 0.973 160
Alex Radcliff CAG 3B 32 133 129 13 46 7 1 1 19 2  4   0 0 0  0.357 0.376 0.45 0.826 157
Buck Leonard* HG/SAS 1B 75 347 284 80 92 19 9 4 67 3  55   2 6 0  0.324 0.437 0.496 0.933 156


Tetelo Vargas had a big year but it is an outlier compared to surrounding years and he was 37 years old.

Brown's 1943 looks very similar to his 1941. I wasn't inclined to give him a ballot slot in 1941 but the competition is not as tough in 1943. I think he probably hit similar to Cullenbine or Augie Galan but the evidence shows them as better fielders.

Josh Gibson has another monster season. He split time with 10 games in RF and it is likely he would have started to transition to 1B in the big leagues. That will still keep him solidly on my ballot in 1943.
   4. DL from MN Posted: May 03, 2018 at 11:48 AM (#5665227)
1943 Prelim

1) Stan Musial - this is not close
2) Luke Appling
3) Josh Gibson - those are your NL, AL and NGL MVPs and there is considerable separation between them and the rest of the pack
4) Lou Boudreau
5) Charlie Keller
6) Spud Chandler - clearly the best pitcher in 1943.
7) Bill Nicholson
8) Joe Gordon
9) Arky Vaughan
10) Lou Klein

11-15) Augie Galan, Bobby Doerr, Hi Bithorn, Johnny Markham, Rudy York
16-20) Schoolboy Rowe, Johnny Wright, Bill Dickey, Nate Andrews, Tommy Bridges
   5. DL from MN Posted: May 03, 2018 at 11:50 AM (#5665231)
I gave too little attention to the Negro League pitchers. Markham and Wright were the best and they faced off in the 1943 NGL World Series. Markham had two shutouts but Wright had the lower RA (2.10 to 1.52).

https://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/1943_Negro_World_Series
   6. bjhanke Posted: May 04, 2018 at 12:04 AM (#5666019)
DL - Do the Negro Leaguers have their Win Share and WAR columns switched? It sure looks like it, just looking at the magnitude of the numbers.
   7. DL from MN Posted: May 04, 2018 at 09:35 AM (#5666107)
Yes - should be fixed now
   8. bjhanke Posted: May 06, 2018 at 01:36 PM (#5667304)
DL - I should have asked this three "years" ago. What is the source of the Negro Leaguers MLEs? In particular, how did the people who calculate them decide what caliber the Negro Leagues actually were, compared to the Major Leagues?
   9. DL from MN Posted: May 07, 2018 at 11:47 AM (#5667749)
The numbers I have in post #3 are NOT MLE's, they're the seamheads data. Eric Chalek has done some MLEs and has been posting links to his updates periodically in threads on the hot topics sidebar.
   10. DL from MN Posted: May 29, 2018 at 06:47 PM (#5681728)
1943 World Series
Player Name  G  AB  R  H  2B  3B  HR  RBI  BB  SO  BA  OBP  SLG  OPS  SB  CS  E
Bill Dickey 5 18 1 5 0 0 1 4 2 2 .278 .350 .444 .794 0 0 0
Joe Gordon 5 17 2 4 1 0 1 2 3 3 .235 .350 .471 .821 0 0 0 
Billy Johnson 5 20 3 6 1 1 0 3 0 3 .300 .300 .450 .750 0 0 1
Charlie Keller 5 18 3 4 0 1 0 2 2 5 .222 .300 .333 .633 1 0 0

Lou Klein 5 22 0 3 0 0 0 0 1 2 .136 .174 .136 .310 0 0 2
Marty Marion 5 14 1 5 2 0 1 2 3 1 .357 .471 .714 1.185 1 0 1
Stan Musial 5 18 2 5 0 0 0 0 2 2 .278 .350 .278 .628 0 0 0

Pitcher Name  G  GS  ERA  W  L  SV  CG  IP  H  R  ER  BB  SO  WHIP
Tiny Bonham 1 1 4.50 0 1 0 0 8.0 6 4 4 3 9 1.125
Spud Chandler 2 2 0.50 2 0 0 2 18.0 17 2 1 3 10 1.111 

Mort Cooper 2 2 2.81 1 1 0 1 16.0 11 5 5 3 10 0.875
Max Lanier 3 2 1.76 0 1 0 0 15.1 13 5 3 3 13 1.043


   11. bjhanke Posted: June 01, 2018 at 12:47 AM (#5683817)
Hi. Was there a 1943 ballot thread up here a week or so ago? I put up my ballot SOMEWHERE, but haven't seen the ballot thread since. Just in case it's my computer acting up, here's my ballot for 1943. If it gets to the ballot deadline, and I haven't posted up there yet, please transfer this one for me. Thanks.

Here’s Brock Hanke’s ballot for 1943. This time, I just went with the consensus, such as it is, of the Win Share and WAR ordinals. There are disconnects between the two systems, but this is 1943, the first of the WWII years where lots of top players were in the military. So, I just left adjusting alone and went with the ordinals. This includes Josh Gibson. Treating his Win Share and WAR “rankings”, from DL’s header, produced a ranking of 4th, which I don’t think anyone is going to gripe about too much. Anyway, here it is:

1. Stan Musial
2. Luke Appling
3. Lou Boudreau
4. Josh Gibson
5. Charlie Keller
6. Bill Nicholson
7. Spud Chandler
8. Joe Gordon
9. Mort Cooper
10. Augie Galan
   12. Chris Fluit Posted: June 03, 2018 at 10:43 AM (#5684798)
1943 Prelim Ballot

1. Stan Musial, RF, St. Louis Cardinals: dominates a diminished league with 177 OPS+ and 147 RC
2. Spud Chandler, P, New York Yankees: head and shoulders ahead of the AL with 198 ERA+ in 253 IP
3. Josh Gibson, C, Homestead Grays: a 267 OPS+ in 77 G
4. Bill Nicholson, RF, Chicago Cubs: 166 OPS+ and 123 RC
5. Luke Appling, SS, Chicago White Sox: best position player in the AL with a 143 OPS+ and 103 RC at shortstop
6. Max Lanier, P, St. Louis Cardinals: 178 ERA+ in 213 IP
7. Mort Cooper, P, St. Louis Cardinals: 147 ERA+ in 274 IP
8. Johnny Wright, P, Homestead Grays: 191 ERA+ in 212 IP
9. Charlie Keller, LF, New York Yankees: 167 OPS+ and 106 RC
10. Lou Boudreau, SS, Cleveland Indians: 134 OPS+ and +18 defense from short

11. Willard Brown, CF, Kansas City Monarchs: 198 OPS+ in 52 G
12. Rudy York, 1B, Detroit Tigers
13. Babe Herman, 2B, Chicago Cubs
14. Dizzy Trout, P, Detroit Tigers
15. Nate Andrews, P, Boston Braves
   13. Chris Fluit Posted: June 03, 2018 at 10:45 AM (#5684799)
I know half of the electorate has already voted but don't ignore Johnny Wright, pitcher for the Homestead Grays. According to Seamheads, his 7.3 WAR is even better than Gibson. I still have Gibson ahead based on the fact that Wright pitched in an unusually high number of recorded games but he's definitely worth a look.

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