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Friday, March 21, 2014

Most Meritorious Player: 1952 Ballot

For 1952, each voter should rank their top 10 players from both leagues combined.

Balloting is scheduled to close at 4pm EST on 2 April 2014.

Anyone can vote, even if you do not normally participate in Hall of Merit discussions. If have never participated in an MMP election, just post a preliminary ballot in the discussion thread by 1 April 2014.

For detailed rules see one of our previous ballots.

DL from MN Posted: March 21, 2014 at 10:48 AM | 22 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   1. DL from MN Posted: March 21, 2014 at 11:12 AM (#4674835)
1952 Ballot

1) Jackie Robinson - close between Robinson and Shantz. Robinson gets a little postseason credit for the .367 OBP.
2) Bobby Shantz - terrific pitching season, decent hitter too
3) Stan Musial
4) Robin Roberts - best NL pitcher 3 years running
5) Yogi Berra - C bonus and good postseason
6) Mickey Mantle - outstanding postseason bumps him above Doby
7) Larry Doby
8) Hank Sauer - great defense
9) Warren Spahn
10) Billy Pierce

11-15) Solly Hemus, Ken Raffensberger, Al Rosen, Gil Hodges, Red Schoendienst
   2. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: March 21, 2014 at 12:16 PM (#4674862)
Official 1952 MMP Ballot (no postseason bonuses and there is an AL adjustment):

1) Larry Doby: Best ML player and center fielder.
2) Stan Musial: Best NL player and center fielder.
3) Jackie Robinson: Best ML second baseman.
4) Mickey Mantle: Best sophomore year.
5) Robin Roberts: Best ML pitcher.
6) Bobby Shantz: Best AL pitcher.
7) Al Rosen: Best AL third baseman.
8) Yogi Berra: Best ML catcher.
9) Hank Sauer: Best ML left fielder.
10) Joe Black: Best ML reliever.

Earliest I have submitted my MMP ballot! :-D
   3. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: March 21, 2014 at 12:46 PM (#4674881)
The first 6 are all bunched very closely together:

1. Robin Roberts - Tiebreaker with Shantz were his 6-0, 2.67 dominance of the Dodgers, plus 50 more innings
2. Bobby Shantz - Put up what may have been the best AL pitching performance of the decade
3. Jackie Robinson - The total package of batting, fielding and baserunning
4. Stan Musial - Close call with both Robinson above and Mantle below
5. Mickey Mantle - Tiebreaker with Doby was his MVP-level World Series performance
6. Larry Doby - Virtual tie with The Mick
7. Yogi Berra - Best catcher in the game
8. Billy Pierce - Terrible run support was the cause of his mediocre 15-12 record
9. Hank Sauer - One dimensional player with a great first half
10. Al Rosen - Stellar offensive numbers but statistics hide the awfulness of his fielding
   4. DL from MN Posted: March 21, 2014 at 01:11 PM (#4674895)
StNick - are you a new voter? If so, please post a prelim in the discussion thread. Ballot looks good but someone might have a question.
   5. Chris Fluit Posted: March 22, 2014 at 04:11 PM (#4675422)
1952 Prelim- Full

1. Jackie Robinson, 2B, Brooklyn Dodgers
2. Stan Musial, CF, St. Louis Cardinals
3. Robin Roberts, P, Philadelphia Phillies
4. Al Rosen, 3B, Cleveland Indians
5. Bobby Shantz, P, Philadelphia Athletics
6. Larry Doby, CF, Cleveland Indians
7. Mickey Mantle, CF, New York Yankees
8. Bob Lemon, P, Cleveland Indians
9. Yogi Berra, C, New York Yankees
10. Mike Garcia, P, St. Louis Browns

11. Allie Reynolds, P, New York Yankees
12. Bob Rush, P, Chicago Cubs
13. Solly Hemus, SS, St. Louis Cardinals
14. Hank Sauer, LF, Chicago Cubs
15. Warren Spahn, P, Boston Braves
   6. caiman Posted: March 22, 2014 at 08:00 PM (#4675498)
Hi All,



As many of you are aware, I have been (very slowly) developing my website. Not all is perfect, and I hope you don't mind some basic snafu's.



The website is www.mikegimbel.com and contains political, physics and baseball areas.



If you are only interested in the baseball area of the website, the baseball area can be directly gotten to via this address: www.mikegimbel.com/album3/album3_006.htm



The baseball area has (partial list):
•a copy of the introduction and explanation of the RPA methodology from my 1994 book.
•Every hitter with at least 200 computed plate appearances (CPA) in 2013 with his complete RPA rated 2013 offensive breakdown against each of the 6 types of pitchers faced (all shown on a single screen).
•The list of the top career hitter and pitcher performers from 1900-2012 in career RPA run value.
•The top hitters and pitchers in each league for every individual season from 1900-2013
•Full rosters of all National League teams from 1900-1960, with the RPA ratings and RPA run values for every player (more years and the AL to come).
•My important talk at the 1998 SABR Negro Leagues conference in Artlantic City
•The video of my talk on sports and drugs under capitalism from several years ago.

If you have email contacts with baseball fans who might be interested in seeing the above player ratings or the articles or the video on the website, please forward this email to them.



--Mike Gimbel
   7. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: March 22, 2014 at 10:12 PM (#4675536)
StNick - are you a new voter? If so, please post a prelim in the discussion thread. Ballot looks good but someone might have a question.

I've voted in HoM elections before, though not that often. But I'll be glad to post a prelim in the discussion thread.
   8. lieiam Posted: March 23, 2014 at 12:36 PM (#4675652)
This is a tough one to call.

This is my usual system, combining a few WAR(P) systems and one WS and one WSAB.
10% catcher bonus and no postseason consideration.

1 Robinson, Jackie 9387
2 Shantz, Bobby 9311
3 Musial, Stan 9105
4 Roberts, Robin 9011
5 Doby, Larry 8477
6 Mantle, Mickey 8147
7 Rosen, Al 7591
8 Berra, Yogi 7389
9 Sauer, Hank 7038
10 Pierce, Billy 7025

11 Hemus, Solly 6850
12 Rush, Bob 6610
13 Hodges, Gil 6437
14 Lemon, Bob 6413
15 Garcia, Mike 6350
   9. Mr. C Posted: March 23, 2014 at 09:23 PM (#4675937)
1952 Ballot

Batters: start with RAA (using XR runs), adjust for park, position and defense (average of TZ, and DRA) Convert adjusted RAA to wins. Add 60% of normal Runs above replacement to get WARR (wins above reduced replacement)

Pitchers: start with RAA, adjust for quality of opposition, park, and team defense (average of TZ, DRA) Convert adjusted RAA to wins. Add 60% of normal runs above replacement to get WARR (wins above reduced replacement)

1. Bobby Shantz 7.96 WARR
2. Jackie Robinson 7.51 WARR
3. Stan Musial 7.47 WARR
4. Larry Doby 7.17 WARR
5. Mickey Mantle 6.78 WARR
6. Robin Roberts 6.83 WARR
7. Solly Hemus 6.32 WARR
8. Hank Sauer 5.89 WARR
9. Billy Pierce 5.69 WARR
10. Gil Hodges 5.50 WARR

Rest of top 20
11. Warren Spahn
12. Al Rosen
13. Yogi Berra
14. Bob Rush
15. Red Schoendienst
16. Warren Hacker
17. Alvin Dark
18. Ken Raffensberger
19. Ferris Fain
20. Bob Lemon




   10. Mr. C Posted: March 23, 2014 at 09:32 PM (#4675939)
Whoops. Roberts should be #5 and Mantle should #6. Sorry for the careless final editing.
   11. bjhanke Posted: March 24, 2014 at 05:15 PM (#4676404)
Here's Brock Hanke's ballot. Like last year, I am using, almost entirely, the consensus of ordinals between Win Shares and WAR. The reason that I do this for these years shows up really strongly this year. I have very distinct memories of Bobby Shantz, Al Dark, and Solly Hemus. However, my earliest memories can't be from before 1954, and were not likely very settled until 1956. Well, Shantz, Hemus and Dark, all three, had their careers deflate right in between 1952 and 1955. So I have memories of these players, but NO memories at all of how good they must have been in 1952. I remember them as good players, maybe really good, but certainly not great. However, in 1952, these three guys were indisputably great. So I'm lettin' the numbers do my talkin' for me. - Brock

1. Jackie Robinson
2. Stan Musial
3. Bobby Shantz
4. Robin Roberts
5. Larry Doby
6. Mickey Mantle
7. Al Rosen
8. Hank Sauer
9. Solly Hemus
10. Al Dark

My next, five, in order, would have been Yogi Berra, Billy Pierce, Gil Hodges, Bob Lemon, and Ferris Fain.
   12. SoCalDemon Posted: March 26, 2014 at 02:17 PM (#4677351)
1. Bobby Shantz
2. Jackie Robinson
3. Robin Roberts
4. Stan Musial
5. Yogi Berra
6. Larry Doby
7. Billy Pierce
8. Mickey Mantle
9. Solly Hemus
10. Warren Spahn
   13. SoCalDemon Posted: March 26, 2014 at 02:19 PM (#4677354)
My next 10 are: Al Rosen (I have 5-11 as basically tied), Alvin Dark, Hank Sauer, Gil Hodges, Bob Lemon, Ken Raffensberger, Bob Rush, Red Schoendienst, Ferris Fain, Mike Garcia

   14. DL from MN Posted: April 03, 2014 at 03:07 PM (#4678614)
I've been told by Moeball to copy over prelims

Moeball Posted: March 07, 2014 at 07:21 PM (#4668113)

1. J. Robinson – for the 4th year in a row I have Jackie as the top player overall. He was the toughest out in baseball (thanks to a career high in walks with 106), made things happen with his legs when he got on base, hit with surprising power for a 2B (career high 19 HRs in ’52), and gobbled up everything hit his way in the field. As good as he was, with as much notoriety that came his way, was Jackie actually underrated? I think maybe so. The man could play some baseball. Damn, I wish I could have been there to see it!

2. S. Musial – the man! Another tremendous year with the bat although his power numbers were down. Still led league in runs, hits, doubles, BA, SLG, OPS+, TB. Not too shabby for an off-year. Played a decent CF, too.

3. B. Shantz – what an amazing year – pitched brilliantly most of the season before fading in September (had a late stretch where he gave up 29 runs in 30 innings). Was it fatigue? Still ended up with career highs in just about every category. Led league in WHIP; had a WHIP of less than 1 on the road.

4. R. Roberts – another in a string of superb seasons; incredibly effective and durable. Looked at first glance like this was his best season with 28-7 record and 2.59 ERA; note, however, that he received better than usual run support this year; only had 7 decisions impacted by poor run support (less than 3 runs support in a game), whereas in most seasons he would typically have twice that many. Went 1-6 in these poor support games; on the other hand, went 27-1 whenever he had at least 3 runs to work with!

5. L. Doby – led A.L. in runs, HRs, OPS+, SLG – also played excellent CF. His best of several solid years with Cleveland.

Now it gets tougher for me to choose – I think #s 6-10 are all very tightly packed and could go in just about any order depending on my mood of the day, but for now I’m going with:

6. Y. Berra – I think all the rating systems grossly underrate catchers so I’m giving Yogi a bonus here. Reached 30 HRs for first time in his career, started building on reputation as a great “clutch” hitter – hit better with runners on and RISP than he did with bases empty, was really outstanding in C&L situations.

7. A. Reynolds – terrific season, led league in ERA, ERA+, SO and ShO. Yet another Yankee pitcher who seemed to do even better in postseason than regular season, and was tough to hit in the regular season (joining Ford, Gomez, Pennock, etc. in this club) – and, unlike the others, Allie was a righty!

8. S. Hemus – got on base a lot on offense, on defense excellent glove work prevented opposing batters getting on base a lot. That’s the way to do it! Led N.L. in runs and HBP.

9. M. Mantle – the Mick was just getting started here – this was one of his “poorer” seasons – wish my Padres could have players this good even in their off-years. Of course, he was only 20 at the time!

10. R. Schoendienst – this is my “off the wall” pick – I think the numbers still underrate what he contributed defensively so I rate him higher than WAR would.

Just missed – Ferris Fain, Al Rosen, Bob Lemon, Mike Garcia, Hank Sauer, Bob Rush, Ken Raffensberger, Warren Spahn
   15. DL from MN Posted: April 03, 2014 at 03:07 PM (#4678615)
Balloting will close 4/9 assuming they don't put the server on a truck again.
   16. Tubbs & Minnie Miñoso don't fear Sid Monge Posted: April 06, 2014 at 12:54 PM (#4680308)
Final ballot--I switched Roberts to #1 & Shantz to #2: Roberts nearly won 30, played for more of a Pennant contender, pitched well vs. Dodgers as St. Nick pointed out, and also pitched more innings. It was very close though
No postseason bonus but in some cases a small bonus for playing for a Pennant winner/contender:
1. Roberts
2. Shantz
3. J.Robinson
4. Musial
5. Doby
6. Berra
7. Rosen
8. Reynolds
9. Lemon
10.Mantle

Some comments-Garcia was probably my #11. Good years by Luke Easter and Hank Sauer. Easter may have had a HOF career if not for integration. Sauer would've had a HOF caliber career if his 20s had been half as good as his 30s.
   17. DL from MN Posted: April 07, 2014 at 09:42 AM (#4680792)
EricC also said to copy over his prelim


1. Bobby Shantz
2. Robin Roberts
3. Yogi Berra
4. Jackie Robinson
5. Stan Musial
6. Larry Doby
7. Bob Lemon
8. Al Rosen
9. Mike Garcia
10. Mickey Mantle

11. Reynolds 12. Pierce 13. Rush 14. Sauer 15. Dark
   18. DL from MN Posted: April 08, 2014 at 10:02 AM (#4681731)
Reminder - balloting closes tomorrow. We have a couple people who expressed interest who didn't post a ballot yet.
   19. Michael J. Binkley's anxiety closet Posted: April 08, 2014 at 01:25 PM (#4681993)
Final 1952 MMP Ballot

I modified my pitcher numbers from my prelim - no changes ordinal-wise other than Pierce dropping behind Yogi and the Mick.

1) Jackie Robinson (47.06)
2) Bobby Shantz (44.69)
3) Robin Roberts (43.69)
4) Larry Doby (38.19)
5) Stan Musial (37.10)
6) Yogi Berra (34.28)
7) Mickey Mantle (34.23)
8) Billy Pierce (33.52)
9) Warren Spahn (32.61)
10) Al Rosen (31.37)

11-20) Hodges, Lemon, Garcia, Raffensberger, Sauer, Hemus, Rush, Reynolds, Fain, Schoendienst
   20. DL from MN Posted: April 08, 2014 at 02:59 PM (#4682085)
Voted recently, no ballot

cardscardscards
Ivan Grushenko
Kiko Sakata
toratoratora
   21. DL from MN Posted: April 09, 2014 at 12:49 PM (#4682939)
Ballot closes at 4 EDT today.
   22. DL from MN Posted: April 09, 2014 at 04:05 PM (#4683199)
Ballot is closed

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