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— A Look at Baseball's All-Time Best

Monday, December 15, 2014

Most Meritorious Player: 1960 Ballot

For 1960, each voter should rank their top 10 players from both leagues combined.

Balloting is scheduled to close at 4pm EDT on 7 January 2015.

Anyone can vote, even if you do not normally participate in Hall of Merit discussions. If have never participated in an MMP election, just post a preliminary ballot in the discussion thread by 5 January 2015.

For detailed rules see one of our previous ballots.

DL from MN Posted: December 15, 2014 at 01:09 PM | 19 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   1. DL from MN Posted: December 15, 2014 at 01:27 PM (#4862205)
1) Ernie Banks - playing SS gives Banks the edge, especially comparing the SS cohort to the CF cohort
2) Willie Mays - More WAR than Banks but worse versus positional average
3) Mickey Mantle - top AL player, great postseason separates him from Maris
4) Eddie Mathews - Poor fielding numbers but the best bat of 1960 and not a poor enough fielder that moving to 1B would have made sense.
5) Roger Maris - great season, very solid defense
6) Henry Aaron - certain to set the record for most MMP ballot appearances without a win
7) Ken Boyer - outstanding defensive ratings for this season
8) Ernie Broglio - Bunning pitched better in 1960 but Broglio had a career year on the mound and at the plate
9) Jim Bunning - top AL pitcher, lousy bat
10) Don Drysdale

11-15) Frank Robinson, Dick Groat, Woodie Held, Bill Mazeroski, Mike McCormick
16-20) Ray Herbert, Ted Williams, Frank Lary, Luis Aparicio, Pete Runnels
   2. DL from MN Posted: December 15, 2014 at 06:13 PM (#4862538)
Allowing plenty of time due to the holidays.
   3. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: December 15, 2014 at 09:36 PM (#4862639)
Official 1960 MMP Ballot (no postseason bonuses and adjustments for AL players):

1) Willie Mays: Best ML player and center fielder.
2) Eddie Mathews: Best ML third baseman.
3) Hank Aaron: Best ML right fielder.
4) Mickey Mantle: Best AL player and center fielder.
5) Lindy McDaniel: Best ML pitcher and reliever.
6) Ernie Banks: Best ML shortstop.
7) Roger Maris: Best NL right fielder.
8) Ken Boyer:
9) Don Drysdale: Best ML starting pitcher.
10) Ernie Broglio

AL CY: Jim Bunning
   4. MrC Posted: December 16, 2014 at 09:58 AM (#4862826)
1960 Ballot

Batters: start with RAA (using value added runs), adjust for park, position and defense (using DRA) Convert adjusted RAA to wins. Add 60% of normal Runs above replacement to get WARR (wins above reduced replacement)

Pitchers: Calculate RAA using a pitchers FIP and calculate RAA using a pitcher's value added runs.

Calculate RAA, using a blend of RA9 and FIP from above, adjust for quality of opposition, role and park. Convert adjusted RAA to wins. Add 60% of normal runs above replacement to get WARR (wins above reduced replacement). Add Hitter WARR for overall WARR.

1. Hank Aaron 8.06 WARR
2. Roger Maris 7.45 WARR
3. Eddie Mathews 7.25 WARR
4. Ken Boyer 7.10 WARR
5. Frank Robinson 6.92 WARR
6. Willie Mays 6.83 WARR
7. Ernie Banks 6.30 WARR
8. Don Drysdale 6.21 WARR
9. Mickey Mantle 5.50 WARR
10. Ernie Broglio 5.47 WARR

Rest of the top 20
Jim Bunning
Del Crandall
Lindy McDaniel
Bob Friend
Larry Jackson
Roy Sievers
Jim Gilliam
Don Hoak
Woodie Held
Ray Herbert
   5. Moeball Posted: December 17, 2014 at 06:30 PM (#4864205)
Final 1960 ballot same as prelim:

Here's my ballot for the top 10 players, and I was surprised how some of these turned out:

1)Willie Mays - best combination of hitting, running and fielding - again!
2)Ernie Banks - a shade below his 1959 season but still pretty awesome! This shows just how tough it was to compete for supremacy when going up against guys like Mays, Mantle, Aaron, etc.
3)Hank Aaron - already getting into the groove that seemed to find him hitting 40 HRs, driving in 120 runs and playing great defense every season.
4)Roger Maris - best AL player, even ahead of Mantle. Just about matches Mick with the bat and is a vastly better fielder at this point.
5)Ed Mathews - still best LH hitter in baseball (full time), repeating from 1959.
6)Mickey Mantle - surprisingly not best player in AL for first time in several years. Will be back on top in 1961.
7)Frank Robinson - set personal highs in OBA and SLG this season, numbers that would get even better in years to come.
8)Ken Boyer - yet another stellar season both at bat and in the field. Interesting that we are looking at the seasons from the peak of his career during the time he is on the VC ballot - it's forcing me to take another look at just how good he was in his prime.
9)Ernie Broglio - my pick for top major league pitcher. 2.74 ERA in hitter-friendly STL park was very impressive.
10)Don Drysdale - 269 innings of 2.84 ERA pitching in Coliseum - that's an impressive feat

Close but no cigar - Jim Bunning (top AL pitcher), Ted Williams (rebounded to actually be best hitter in major leagues again on a per-plate appearance basis, but only played a little over half a season), Mike McCormick, Dick Groat, Ron Hansen, Bill Mazeroski.
   6. lieiam Posted: December 18, 2014 at 12:08 AM (#4864383)
Final 1960 ballot:
no postseason, 10% catcher bonus

1 MAYS, WILLIE 9842
2 MATHEWS, EDDIE 9324
3 AARON, HANK 8921
4 MANTLE, MICKEY 8749
5 MARIS, ROGER 8286
6 BANKS, ERNIE 8200
7 BOYER, KEN 7921
8 DRYSDALE, DON 7751
9 BROGLIO, ERNIE 6917
10 BUNNING, JIM 6639

11 ROBINSON, FRANK 6629
12 FRIEND, BOB 6427
13 JACKSON, LARRY 6201
14 MCDANIEL, LINDY 6147
15 GROAT, DICK 6082
   7. Chris Fluit Posted: December 18, 2014 at 03:15 PM (#4864845)
1960 Ballot

This was a really tight ballot at the top. I had Mathews first before I posted my prelim, then changed my mind after looking at some additional numbers and put Mays first. Now, I'm changing my mind again. I think what Banks and Mathews did on the left side of the infield was more valuable than Mays' all around play in center field. But yeah, really close.

1. Ernie Banks, SS, Chicago Cubs: 146 OPS+ and 113 RC to go with +9 defense
2. Eddie Mathews, 3B, Milwaukee Braves: 166 OPS+ and 128 RC but only -5 defensively
3. Willie Mays, CF, San Francisco Giants: 160 OPS+, +14 defense
4. Mickey Mantle, CF, New York Yankees: 1st in AL OPS+ and RC
5. Rogers Maris, RF, New York Yankees: 2nd in AL OPS+ and RC, +19 in right field
6. Hank Aaron, RF, Milwaukee Braves: 156 OPS+ and 119 RC, +14 in right field
7. Frank Robinson, 1B/LF, Cincinnati Reds: 169 OPS+ but only 113 RC and +4 with the glove
8. Ken Boyer, 3B, St. Louis Cardinals: 143 OPS+ and +7 fielding
9. Don Drysdale, P, Los Angeles Dodgers: best pitcher in the NL
10. Jim Bunning, P, Detroit Tigers: best pitcher in the AL

11. Ted Williams, LF, Boston Red Sox
12. Bob Friend, P, Pittsburgh Pirates
13. Ernie Broglio, P, St. Louis Cardinals
14. Larry Jackson, P, St. Louis Cardinals
15. Vern Law, P, Pittsburgh Pirates
16. Mike McCormick, P, San Francisco Giants
17. Pedro Ramos, P, Washington Senators
18. Lindy McDaniel, RP, St. Louis Cardinals
19. Dick Groat, SS, Pittsburgh Pirates
20. Frank Lary, P, Detroit Tigers
   8. bjhanke Posted: December 19, 2014 at 10:17 AM (#4865247)
Frustrating year for a Cards fan. Just going from Chris' ballot, which are usually very good, the Cards have one player in the top ten in all of baseball, and three pitchers (Broglio, Jackson, McDaniel) on the pitching staff. However, the team also had three players who could surely have provided a lot of help except - Bob Gibson, having been wild the previous year when used as a mop up man, had been sent down to terrorize AAA batters. Bill White, a Gold Glove 1B but no outfielder, was playing center field so that Stan Musial could play first (Musial did not have a good year, and may have been hurt). Because White was playing CF, Curt Flood was sitting on the bench. Is it any wonder that people started questioning manager Solly Hemus' racial bias? - Brock Hanke
   9. EricC Posted: December 19, 2014 at 04:19 PM (#4865612)
1960 MMP ballot.

1. Mickey Mantle. Mays was the top player for the regular season, but Mantle passes him with a World Series bonus.
2. Willie Mays
3. Eddie Mathews
4. Hank Aaron
5. Roger Maris
6. Don Drysdale
7. Ernie Broglio
8. Ernie Banks
9. Ken Boyer
10. Jim Bunning
   10. DL from MN Posted: December 19, 2014 at 04:34 PM (#4865624)
This has been an interesting election seeing different combinations of 10 of the same 11 players.
   11. bjhanke Posted: December 21, 2014 at 02:37 PM (#4866300)
I took a look at the 1960 Cardinals, and realized that I'd been slandering Solly Hemus a little. In 1960, his second year as manager, Solly did end up with Bill White on first and Curt Flood in Center, where they belonged. Musial went back to left and Cunningham attempted to play right. I may have misremembered just looking at yearly Win Shares, Flood, in 1960, was a pretty terrible hitter, not someone who got backup time. However, he was still only 22. And, although doing this seems so weird in retrospect, the decision to farm Bob Gibson out for a year, had some basis in that Bob had trouble finding the strike zone in 1959. Anyway, apologies to anyone here. - Brock Hanke
   12. neilsen Posted: December 24, 2014 at 01:18 PM (#4868050)
1960 Final Ballot

1. Willie Mays - Combination of bat, glove and legs put him here for me. Best MLB player by a little and best MLB CF by some. His base running this year is again, amaysing. First to home on a single to right for the winning run. Second to home on a bunt single. Inside the park grand slam . Steals home and hits two HR in the same game. 12 triples for the year. 1960 also marks the Giants first year playing at Candlestick and that effected Mays' hitting and fielding numbers.

#2 thru #5 are all pretty close. So are #6 and #7.

2. Hank Aaron - Another big bat year for Aaron and he starts stealing some bases.
3. Ernie Banks - Hit better on the road than at home this year. His glove is still good at shortstop.
4. Eddie Mathews - Aaron overshadowed by Mays and Mathews overshadowed by Aaron? He can hit but his fielding isn't very good.
5. Frank Robinson -Famously dukes it out with Mathews on the field and as the leagues best hitter.
6. Roger Maris- Better than Mantle due to much better fielding. Best player in the AL.
7. Mickey Mantle - Quite the WS and Game 7. Wow.
8. Ken Boyer - Great glove and one of the leagues best hitters.Good power year with 32 home runs. Underrated.
9. Don Drysdale - Especially good year considering his home park.
10. Ernie Broglio - Career year. Wasn't even slotted for the regular rotation at the start of the season.

Then Vada Pinson, Jim Bunning, Bob Friend, Dick Groat and Ted Williams.
   13. DL from MN Posted: December 31, 2014 at 03:45 PM (#4870588)
One week left
   14. Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handle Posted: January 04, 2015 at 07:15 PM (#4872766)
Final ballot, no postseason bonus but some small bonus for playing on a Pennant contender

1. Mays
2. Aaron
3. Mathews
4. Banks
5. Maris
6. Mantle
7. Boyer
8. F Robinson
9. Groat
10.Friend

Top NL pitchers: Friend, Broglio, Drysdale
Top AL pitchers: Bunning, Herbert, Lary. Hard to believe my top AL pitchers went 11-14, 14-15, & 15-15, respectively. What an odd year for AL pitchers
   15. bjhanke Posted: January 05, 2015 at 03:23 AM (#4873013)
This is Brock Hanke’s final ballot for 1960. As I’ve done the last two times, I’ve listed the players with their ordinals in Win Shares and then WAR and then added the two together. This is the foundation I use to start my list. This year, there were few surprises, which was in itself a surprise, because the season had been so odd. Anyway, I moved Mickey Mantle out of a tie with Ken Boyer because Mantle had a fine, fine postseason, and placed him ahead of Boyer, and Boyer ahead of Roger Maris, as much for league strength as anything else, although I will admit to being a huge Boyer fan.

The big oddity of the season was the Pirates. How did this team win a league champonship? The answer is that their collection of starters had no weakensses. Everyone in the lineup could hit at least tolerably, although none was really great or anything. Their most important bench player, catcher Hal Smith, also hit well, and it’s probably more fair to say he platooned with Smokey Burgess than that Burgess was the starter. (For those of you who don’t know, this was not a career year for Burgess or anything. This guy could REALLY hit. He just wasn’t much of a glove at catcher, and too slow to play anywhere else. He played more than Smith because he was a lefty hitter, and there are more righty pitchers than lefties.) (Also, just for another note, there were two starting – or strong platooning - catchers in the National League named Hal Smith at this time. This was the one who could hit. The other one was a Gold Glove candidate, but could not hit at all. In 1960, he was playing for the Cardinals, which is why I know this. The one who could hit had by far the better career.) The Yankees, meanwhile, had Mantle, Maris, and Bill Skowron at 1B, and a bunch of infielders with real good gloves. Their catching / LF platoon of Berra, Howard and Blanchard add up to about 1 ½ really good starters. Their starting LF was actually Hector Lopez, which is just wrong.

The same thing was true at pitcher. The Pirates had a very solid four-man rotation, with two lefties and two righties, all more or less the same quality, no holes. Vern Law was the ace, and pitched well enough in the Series that, had he been close to a ballot spot, I would have moved him up, but he wasn’t that much better than any of the other three. Elroy Face was their closer. The Yankees had a problem. They had a five-man rotaton, none of whom pitched more than 200 innings. So far, OK, but their ace was Art Ditmar, having one of his five good years, but not really a seriously good pitcher. The Yanks started him in game one, and the Pirates destroyed him in that game and the other one he started. Altogether, he pitched 1.2 innings, giving up 6 runs. This guy STARTED two games, including Game 1, because, during the regular season, he really WAS the Yankees’ ace.

Trying to keep comments out of the listings, I have this: Lindy McDaniel was a favorite of mine, an excellent closer from the Elroy Face period. In 1960, as the Cardinal closer, he went 12-4, with a 2.09 ERA and 26 Saves, leading the league. He only pitched 116.1 innings, which would have worried me, except that both Win Shares and WAR agree with this placement. Ernie Broglio started for the Cards that year. He went 21-9, leading the league in wins, with a 2.74 ERA. See, the Cubs weren’t being just stupid in 1964.

Enough of my childhood memories. On to my opinions. Here’s the list, without further comment. Oh, further comment: For some reason, I thought I should list my top 15. Just ignore those last five, would you, Oh Magic Tabulators?

1. Willie Mays 2+1 = 3
2. Hank Aaron 4+2 = 6
3. Eddie Mathews 1+6 = 7
4. Ernie Banks 7+3 = 10
5. Mickey Mantle 3+10 = 13
6. Ken Boyer 5+8 = 13
7. Roger Maris 6+5 = 11
8. Ernie Brogio 13+4 = 17
9. Dick Groat 8+11 = 19
10. Don Drysdale 14+7 = 21
11. Lindy McDaniel 9+13 = 22
12. Frank Robinson 20+12 = 32
13. Del Crandall 12+26 = 38
14. Don Hoak 21+18 = 39
15. Bill Skowron 18+22= 40

Actually, Skowron is tied with Jim Bunning (31+9 = 40), but gets a WS bonus, because he played well. Bunning, with Detroit in 1960, was the best AL pitcher.
   16. DL from MN Posted: January 07, 2015 at 10:03 AM (#4874989)
Ballot should close today. Voted recently but not in this election: toratoratora, Michael Binkley
   17. Michael J. Binkley's anxiety closet Posted: January 07, 2015 at 12:40 PM (#4875185)
1960 Final Ballot:

I use a combination of WAR systems to get an average WAR for each player. I use that number to get a Dan R-style peak-rate salary estimation. I divide that salary by $1 million and add 3 times the average WAR to that dividend. I use a 20% bonus for catchers and do not credit postseason except as a tiebreaker.

1. Willie Mays (48.17)
2. Hank Aaron (43.30)
3. Eddie Mathews (40.73)
4. Ernie Banks (40.66)
5. Roger Maris (37.18) – AL MMP
6. Don Drysdale (36.92) - MMPitcher
7. Ken Boyer (34.42)
8. Mickey Mantle (32.62)
9. Jim Bunning (32.44) – AL MMPitcher
10. Frank Robinson (32.26)
   18. DL from MN Posted: January 07, 2015 at 03:51 PM (#4875373)
I'll just use this one if it isn't updated by the deadline.

toratoratora Posted: January 03, 2015 at 12:45 PM (#4872093)
Prelim, 1960 style. The usual blend of WAR systems.No adjustments. This year showed unusual fluctuations so I expect to see the final ballot change a bit from this.

1-Mays
2-Matthews
3-Aaron
4-Banks
5-Maris
6-mantle
7-Boyer
8-Bunning
9-Friend
10-Drysdale

Best of the rest in order, Broglio, Law, McCormick, Groat, Hoak
   19. DL from MN Posted: January 07, 2015 at 05:50 PM (#4875508)
Balloting is closed. I used the prelim.

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