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Wednesday, February 22, 2012

Most Meritorious Player: 1970 Discussion

Now we’re into the wonderfully colorful period of the 1970s. The Twins, Orioles, Reds and Pirates made the playoffs with the Orioles winning it all.

Voting will end on March 21st 2012.

Player 			SH Win	BB-ref
        		Shares	WAR
Jim Fregosi		32.8	7.7
Johnny Bench		36.1	6.5
Carl Yastrzemski	35.9	9.1
Bert Campaneris		26.6	5.6
Tommy Harper		33.0	7.7
Tony Perez		33.7	6.7
Tony Oliva		30.1	7.4
Billy Williams		28.1	6.4
Willie McCovey		33.9	6.4
Rusty Staub		28.9	6.2
Roy White		33.3	7.5
Bill Grabarkewitz	28.8	6.5
Pete Rose		29.1	3.6
Rico Carty		26.1	5.8
Joe Torre		25.5	5.6
Luis Aparicio		17.7	5.2
Joe Morgan		23.0	3.4
Henry Aaron		24.2	4.9
Bobby Bonds		32.2	5.1
Davey Johnson		23.1	3.4
Roberto Clemente	22.4	5.2
Frank Robinson		25.8	4.9
Jim Wynn		26.9	5.1
Reggie Smith		25.4	6.0
Thurman Munson		27.0	5.9
Harmon Killebrew	29.7	5.8
Dick Dietz		25.4	4.5
Frank Howard		29.3	4.4
Rico Petrocelli		23.7	4.5
Boog Powell		31.2	5.4
Bobby Tolan		29.1	4.3
Denis Menke		24.2	4.4
Cesar Tovar 		28.1	4.4
Wes Parker		29.1	5.0

Bob Gibson		27.3	10.1
Sam McDowell		29.5	7.7
Ferguson Jenkins	26.4	6.6
Tom Seaver		23.8	6.4
Ken Holtzmann		23.2	6.4
Jim Palmer		24.8	6.2
Gaylord Perry		23.3	7.4
Carl Morton		20.2	4.9
Bill Hands		20.1	5.5
Tommy John		17.9	5.9
Pat Jarvis		19.4	5.4
Ray Culp		18.0	4.2
Mickey Lolich		16.7	4.8
Jim Perry		20.3	4.4
Gary Nolan		18.8	4.9
Marty Pattin		15.5	4.2
Dick Bosman		16.1	4.0
Dave McNally		20.9	3.9
Mudcat Grant		20.5	4.1
Dick Selma		20.4	5.0
Lindy McDaniel		18.9	3.4

 

DL from MN Posted: February 22, 2012 at 05:26 PM | 41 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   1. DL from MN Posted: February 22, 2012 at 05:29 PM (#4066445)
hot topics
   2. DL from MN Posted: February 22, 2012 at 06:16 PM (#4066512)
1970 prelim - no postseason credit determined yet

1) Johnny Bench - C bonus moves him to the top
2) Jim Fregosi - Dan R likes SS
3) Carl Yastrzemski
4) Bob Gibson - top P again, great hitting this season
5) Bert Campaneris
6) Tommy Harper
7) Tony Perez
8) Billy Williams
9) Willie McCovey
10) Sam McDowell - top AL pitcher though Jim Perry won the CYA
11) Frank Howard
12) Roy White

13-15) Rico Petrocelli, Ferguson Jenkins, Boog Powell
16-20) Bobby Tolan, Tom Seaver, Denis Menke, Bernie Carbo, Tony Oliva
   3. DanG Posted: February 22, 2012 at 07:46 PM (#4066572)
Looking out to the bullpen in 1970:

Rk           Player WAR ERASV    WPA  WHIP GF GS    IP Age  Tm Lg  G  W  L  ERA  OPS OPS+
1        Dick Selma 4.9  147 22  4.329 1.243 47  0 134.1  26 PHI NL 73  8  9 2.75 .628   75
2      Mudcat Grant 4.2  193 24  5.371 1.064 54  0 135.1  34 TOT ML 80  8  3 1.86 .598   72
3    Lindy McDaniel 3.5  176 29  5.728 0.994 51  0 111.2  34 NYY AL 62  9  5 2.01 .548   59
4       Ken Sanders 3.5  215 13  1.758 0.964 30  0  92.1  28 MIL AL 50  5  2 1.75 .517   47
5          Tom Hall 3.4  149  4  4.021 1.030 13 11 155.1  22 MIN AL 52 11  6 2.55 .547   54
6      Chuck Taylor 3.2  133  8  1.000 1.182 22  7 124.1  28 STL NL 56  6  7 3.11 .651   77
7      Barry Lersch 3.2  123  3  1.298 1.203 14 11 138.0  25 PHI NL 42  6  3 3.26 .677   88
8    Darold Knowles 2.9  174 27  0.175 1.324 49  0 119.1  28 WSA AL 71  2 14 2.04 .644   87
9       Don McMahon 2.8  136 19  1.029 1.219 44  0  94.1  40 SFG NL 61  9  5 2.96 .630   74
10      John Hiller 2.2  124  3  0.472 1.231 18  5 104.0  27 DET AL 47  6  6 3.03 .652   85
11          Jim Ray 2.1  120  5  1.583 1.390 16  2 105.0  25 HOU NL 52  6  3 3.26 .735  106
12    Stan Williams 2.1  192 15  3.107 1.032 36  0 113.1  33 MIN AL 68 10  1 1.99 .575   61
13      Joe Hoerner 2.0  152  9  2.418 1.266 28  0  57.2  33 PHI NL 44  9  5 2.65 .698   93
14      Wilbur Wood 2.0  135 21 
-1.884 1.266 62  0 121.2  28 CHW AL 77  9 13 2.81 .653   85
15   Ron Perranoski 1.9  156 34  1.101 1.351 52  0 111.0  34 MIN AL 67  7  8 2.43 .664   86
16     Clay Carroll 1.9  162 16  2.935 1.256 31  0 104.1  29 CIN NL 65  9  4 2.59 .642   75
17     Pete Richert 1.8  186 13  2.349 1.098 25  0  54.2  30 BAL AL 50  7  2 1.98 .596   69
18      Don Gullett 1.8  172  6  2.352 1.262 15  2  77.2  19 CIN NL 44  5  2 2.43 .600   64 
   4. Mefisto Posted: February 22, 2012 at 09:42 PM (#4066638)
I'm curious if there's some reason you left Mays off the list. He had 5 WAR and 24 WS.
   5. DanG Posted: February 22, 2012 at 10:31 PM (#4066665)
some reason you left Mays off the list. He had 5 WAR and 24 WS
Jim Hickman matched those marks and he's not up there either. Sal Bando is also absent, despite 6.2 WAR and 24 win shares. Paul Blair (5.1, 22) also deserves a mention. And Tony Perez had 6.7 WAR, not 7.4 as shown above.
   6. DL from MN Posted: February 23, 2012 at 12:02 AM (#4066711)
Will correct Perez tomorrow. I can't list everyone, some people are going to be overlooked. I considered Mays briefly.
   7. Mefisto Posted: February 23, 2012 at 12:11 AM (#4066716)
I'm not a voter, and it's your list, but I think it would be odd to separate Mays from guys on the list like Morgan, Aaron, Johnson, Clemente, Petrocelli, and Menke.
   8. DL from MN Posted: February 23, 2012 at 12:14 AM (#4066719)
Morgan and Menke are a lot higher relative to position. The list isn't intended to be exhaustive. Part of the issue is I start with a totally different system to generate the names than the systems I'm listing.
   9. sunnyday2 Posted: February 23, 2012 at 02:50 AM (#4066785)
Prelim

1. Yaz
2. Bench--or it could be Bench, Yaz

3. Perez
4. Fregosi
5. Harper
6. Powell
7. R. White
8. McCovey
9. B. Williams
10. Oliva

11, Brooksie
12. Gibson
   10. DL from MN Posted: February 23, 2012 at 02:45 PM (#4067150)
Survey of postseason credit

Player Team Series AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS
Buford Orioles ALCS 7 2 3 0 0 1 3 2 0 .429 .500 .857 1.357
Blair Orioles ALCS 13 0 1 0 0 0 0 1 4 .077 .143 .077 .220
DJohnson Orioles ALCS 11 4 4 0 0 2 4 1 1 .364 .462 .909 1.371
BRobinson Orioles ALCS 12 3 7 2 0 0 2 0 1 .583 .538 .750 1.288
FRobinson Orioles ALCS 10 3 2 0 0 1 2 5 2 .200 .467 .500 .967
Powell Orioles ALCS 3 14 2 6 2 0 1 6 0 3 .429 .429 .786 1.214
Killebrew Twins ALCS 11 2 3 0 0 2 4 2 4 .273 .385 .818 1.203
Oliva Twins ALCS 12 2 6 2 0 1 1 0 1 .500 .500 .917 1.417
Tovar Twins ALCS 13 2 5 0 1 0 1 0 0 .385 .385 .538 .923

Bench Reds NLCS 9 2 2 0 0 1 1 3 1 .222 .417 .556 .972
Perez Reds NLCS 12 1 4 2 0 1 2 1 1 .333 .385 .750 1.135
Tolan Reds NLCS 12 3 5 0 0 1 2 1 1 .417 .462 .667 1.128
Rose Reds NLCS 13 1 3 0 0 0 1 0 0 .231 .231 .231 .462

Blair Orioles WS 19 5 9 1 0 0 3 2 4 .474 .524 .526 1.050
Buford Orioles WS 15 3 4 0 0 1 1 3 2 .267 .389 .467 .856
DJohnson Orioles WS 16 2 5 2 0 0 2 5 2 .313 .476 .438 .914
FRobinson Orioles WS 22 5 6 0 0 2 4 0 5 .273 .273 .545 .818
BRobinson Orioles WS 21 5 9 2 0 2 6 0 2 .429 .429 .810 1.238
Powell Orioles WS 17 6 5 1 0 2 5 5 2 .294 .455 .706 1.160
Bench Reds WS 19 3 4 0 0 1 3 1 2 .211 .250 .368 .618
Perez Reds WS 18 2 1 0 0 0 0 3 4 .056 .190 .056 .246
Tolan Reds WS 19 5 4 1 0 1 1 3 2 .211 .318 .421 .739
Rose Reds WS 20 2 5 1 0 1 2 2 0 .250 .318 .450 .768

Pitcher Team Series G GS ERA W L SV CG IP H ER BB SO
McNally Orioles ALCS 1 1 3.00 1 0 0 1 9.0 6 3 5 5
Palmer Orioles ALCS 1 1 1.00 1 0 0 1 9.0 7 1 3 12

Nolan Reds NLCS 1 1 0.00 1 0 0 0 9.0 8 0 4 6

McNally Orioles WS 1 1 3.00 1 0 0 1 9.0 9 3 2 5
Palmer Orioles WS 2 2 4.60 1 0 0 0 15.2 11 8 9 9
Nolan Reds WS 2 2 7.71 0 1 0 0 9.1 9 8 3 9
   11. DL from MN Posted: February 23, 2012 at 02:54 PM (#4067162)
I think that bumps Perez over Harper for me and I like Boog Powell over Roy White also.
   12. bjhanke Posted: February 24, 2012 at 08:19 AM (#4067726)
Wow. WAR goes nuts over Gibson AGAIN? He's a full win ahead of Yaz, who is more than a win ahead of anyone else. And Win Shares has nothing like the Gibson ranking although they do like Yaz some. What is going on here? I thought I was the biggest Gibson fan here at BTF. - Brock
   13. DL from MN Posted: February 24, 2012 at 09:30 AM (#4067733)
Gibson really hit well in 1970. .303/.347/.404/.751 is a good line for a shortstop in that era, let alone a pitcher.
   14. stanmvp48 Posted: February 24, 2012 at 10:14 AM (#4067750)
I had never thought much about the AL MVP for that year. Boog was not a particularly strong selection, was he?
   15. Howie Menckel Posted: February 25, 2012 at 12:11 AM (#4068331)
Yeah, Gibson was a ridiculous hitting pitcher in his best years. I remember that if the Cardinals had a rally going against the Mets, Gibson was not much of a sigh of relief as he came up.

He wasn't really so consistent a hitter every year, but he deserves extra credit for those big years. He was KILLING the matchup against so many opposing starters at a time where both SPs might well pitch into the 8th or beyond. It's another reason why the Cards, as they were listed on some Topps baseball cards in this era, won extra Gibson starts.
   16. OCF Posted: February 25, 2012 at 12:57 AM (#4068351)
I remember Gibson being used as a pinch hitter, but that only happened a tiny number of times in his career, and even that tiny number of times included occasions when he was used as a pinch bunter. And, overall, he wasn't Earl Wilson as a hitter. But it's still true that it would have been insane to walk Dal Maxvill to get to Gibson.
   17. Mr. C Posted: February 25, 2012 at 10:49 AM (#4068482)
The NL Hitters

Top ten according to my system (tentative list)
Tony Perez- as a 3B perez' strong offensive season puts him on top
Johnny Bench- if Bench would have played exclusively as a C, he probably would be on top(still might be)
Willie McCovey- a typical McCovey year
Rico Carty - don't let the fact that Carty had just over 550 PA prevent his monster year from being considered for the top 12 in MLB
Billie Williams- A very strong offensive season, but aided by his home park

Unlikely if the second 5 are good enough to consider for the top 12.
Bill Grabarkewitz (please forgive spelling)
Joe Torre
Rusty Staub
Bernie Carbo
Bobby Tolan
   18. Chris Fluit Posted: February 29, 2012 at 09:03 PM (#4071476)
1970 Prelim Ballot

1. Carl Yastrzemski, LF, Boston Red Sox: 177 OPS+, 157 runs created
2. Johnny Bench, C, Cincinnati Reds: 141 OPS+, 121 RC, +10 at Catcher
3. Willie McCovey, 1B, San Francisco Giants: 181 OPS+, 140 runs created
4. Tony Perez, 3B, Cincinnati Reds: 158 OPS+, 140 runs created
5. Jim Fregosi, SS, California Angels: 127 OPS+, 101 RC, +14 at Shortstop
6. Bob Gibson, P, St. Louis Cardinals: 133 ERA+, 294 innings, 99 OPS+ as a pitcher
7. Fergie Jenkins, P, Chicago Cubs: 132 ERA+, 313 innings
8. Billy Williams, LF, Chicago Cubs: 148 OPS+, 147 runs created
9. Rico Carty, RF, Atlanta Braves: 170 OPS+, 125 runs created
10. Dick Dietz, C, San Francisco Giants: 152 OPS+, 113 runs created
11. Tommy Harper, 3B, Milwaukee Brewers: 146 OPS+, 122 runs created
12. Gaylord Perry, P, San Francisco Giants: 125 ERA+, 328 innings

13. Bill Grabarkewitz, SS/3B/2B
14. Tom Seaver, P
15. Jim Palmer, P
16. Sam McDowell, P
17. Joe Torre, C/3B
18. Harmon Killebrew, 3B
19. Boog Powell, 1B
20. Frank Howard, LF
   19. Chris Fluit Posted: February 29, 2012 at 09:09 PM (#4071483)
double post
   20. DL from MN Posted: March 01, 2012 at 11:17 AM (#4071744)
Pretty NL heavy ballot. Are you adjusting the NL up for league strength?
   21. Chris Fluit Posted: March 01, 2012 at 12:11 PM (#4071814)
Nope. That's just the way it turned out.
   22. Chris Fluit Posted: March 02, 2012 at 10:28 AM (#4072637)
Here's the longer answer. The reason why I have significantly more NL players on my ballot than AL players is that many of the top AL candidates have weak resumes.

Consider Howard, Powell and Killebrew. They're the #2 through 4 hitters by OPS+ but they're all poor defensive players. Hondo is a disastrous -17 in fielding runs, Powell isn't too bad at -2 and Killebrew has a pretty poor -10. Compare those numbers to the similar hitters in the NL. Rico Carty, #2 in OPS+, is a decent +1 in fielding. Another corner outfielder, Billy Williams, is a similar +2. If those numbers were reserved- if the NL sluggers were awful defenders and the AL sluggers average ones- than my ballot would have reflected that. The difference between Carty at #9 and Howard at #20 is all defense.

I'm glad you asked though. While double-checking my numbers, I realized that I made an error in addition that gave Jenkins more credit he deserved. That error drops him behind Perry among pitchers and possibly behind Grabarkewitz as well.
   23. lieiam Posted: March 03, 2012 at 04:49 PM (#4073387)
Looks like another fun (read: undecided) election.
I messed about for awhile and got my numbers plugged in.
What I'm still missing and would like are Dan R's pitching numbers....
So if Dan R has new ones to post that would be AWESOME. If not, I'd still
like to have his old numbers (DL from MN, you're my ususual source for those).

Anyway, as is, here is my preliminary top "howevermany".
This includes no postseason bonus and a 10% catcher bonus...


bench, johnny 9474
yastrzemski, carl 9147
gibson, bob 8933
mccovey, willie 8263
harper, tommy 8198
mcdowell, sam 8185
perez, tony 8155
fregosi, jim 8003
jenkins, ferguson 7897
white, roy 7641
powell, boog 7269
grabarkewitz, billy 7097
oliva, tony 7069
williams, billy 7027

   24. lieiam Posted: March 03, 2012 at 04:53 PM (#4073390)
One more thing... I enjoy when different systems have different players on top and we see that in 1970.
Here's the 7 systems I'm using and who is tops in each:

fangraphsWAR: Carl Yastrzemski (no pitchers)
baseball-referenceWAR: Bob Gibson
danrosencheckWARP1: Jim Fregosi (no pitchers)
baseballprospectusWARP1: Bob Gibson
thebaseballgaugeWAR: Ferguson Jenkins
thebaseballgaugeWinShares: Johnny Bench
thebaseballgaugeWSAB: Carl Yastrzemski
   25. Davo Dozier Posted: March 03, 2012 at 05:22 PM (#4073397)
I have to say: I am an enormous baseball fan, and I have never heard the name Bill Grabarkewitz before in my life.
   26. bjhanke Posted: March 03, 2012 at 06:24 PM (#4073412)
Bill was a utility infielder for 7 MLB years, only one of which was any serious good. That was 1970 here, his second season. He made the All-Star team with a season that looked like he'd turn into Gil McDougald, if not something even better. He played third, short, and second, hit .289 with some power, was considered to be an OK shortstop, good at third and very good at second. I don't know why, but my first guess is an injury, but Billy never even came close to duplicating that 1970 campaign. He played part time, rotating between second, short, and third (mostly second), for various teams, because he just lost the ability to hit and was let go. - Brock
   27. booond Posted: March 03, 2012 at 07:04 PM (#4073417)
Grabarkewitz is a great last name.
   28. David Concepcion de la Desviacion Estandar (Dan R) Posted: March 04, 2012 at 10:17 AM (#4073564)
Lieiam, it's just time constraints that stop me from calculating these every "year." If you'd like I can send you the spreadsheet and explain the methodology and perhaps you could do the legwork?
   29. AndrewJ Posted: March 04, 2012 at 10:49 AM (#4073578)
One of the SABR publications in the 1990s (maybe the Baseball Research Journal?) had a feature article about all the fluke seasons there were in the 1970 season -- Bill Grabarkewitz, Campaneris and Tony Taylor (125 OPS+) were among those listed.
   30. lieiam Posted: March 04, 2012 at 07:06 PM (#4073790)
Dan R,
I don't know for sure that I would have the time or that I have enough knowledge to do the legwork... but I would be interested to try!
I'm a little leery of actually posting my e-mail on here but I don't know if there is another way of doing this...

And for fluke seasons in 1970, Cito Gaston is another one.
   31. Howie Menckel Posted: March 04, 2012 at 09:34 PM (#4073831)
I don't ever remember Grabarkewitz being called anything but "Billy." Might want to fix that minor issue.

Here's his 1971 card, in fact:

http://boxbreaker.ecrater.com/p/10007936/1971-topps-baseball-85-billy-grabarkewitz-dodgers

1972:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1972-TOPPS-578-BILLY-GRABARKEWITZ-NM-/350288790604

1973:
http://www.amazon.com/Topps-Grabarkewitz-California-Angels-Baseball/dp/B004OTSEHE

1974:
http://www.amazon.com/Topps-Grabarkewitz-Philadelphia-Protective-Screwdown/dp/B004OU3WZM

1975:
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_SPM2958203501P?ci_sku=SPM2958203501&ci_src=14110944&i_cntr=1330911416952&sid=IDx20101019x00001a

   32. Rafael Bellylard: Built like a Panda. Posted: March 04, 2012 at 11:53 PM (#4073893)
My godfather worked as part of the Giants grounds crew and would occasionally bring stuff home from the park. One of the things I got was a Billy Grabarkewitz bat that he'd cracked during a game. My godfather put it back together with a couple of small nails and some wood glue. I tried to use it in a pickup game and discovered a major leaguer uses a hell of a lot heavier bat than an 11 year old. I remember getting bats used by Dick Dietz and "Dirty Al" Gallagher around the same time.
   33. DL from MN Posted: March 04, 2012 at 11:57 PM (#4073896)
lieiam - you should be able to post data to the yahoo group
   34. David Concepcion de la Desviacion Estandar (Dan R) Posted: March 05, 2012 at 11:59 AM (#4074088)
lieiam, write me at cooberp at gmail dot com.
   35. DL from MN Posted: March 05, 2012 at 12:37 PM (#4074130)
Dan R's old pitching data for 1970

playerid IP/162 DERA PWAA1 BWAA1 StdevAdj IPAdj TransIP PWAA2 BWAA2 Rep WARP2
gibsobo01 295.5 3.3 4.5 0 1.121 0.828 244.7 4.2 0 -3.7 8
mcdowsa01 306 3.27 4.9 -1.8 1.169 0.828 253.3 4.7 -1.4 -3.7 7.1
jenkife01 314.6 3.36 4.5 -1.7 1.121 0.828 260.5 4.2 -1.3 -3.9 6.8
seaveto01 292.2 3.53 3.4 -0.8 1.121 0.828 241.9 3.2 -0.6 -3.6 6.2
holtzke01 289.2 3.55 3.3 -1.1 1.121 0.828 239.4 3.1 -0.8 -3.6 5.9
palmeji01 306 3.61 3.3 -1.7 1.169 0.828 253.3 3.2 -1.3 -3.8 5.7
perryga01 330.4 3.68 3.2 -2.1 1.121 0.828 273.5 2.9 -1.6 -4.1 5.4
mortoca01 286.2 3.73 2.5 -1 1.121 0.828 236.9 2.4 -0.7 -3.5 5.1
handsbi01 266.4 3.72 2.4 -0.8 1.121 0.828 220.5 2.2 -0.6 -3.2 4.9
johnto01 270.1 3.75 2.4 -0.9 1.169 0.828 223.6 2.3 -0.7 -3.2 4.9
jarvipa01 255.3 3.61 2.7 -1 1.121 0.828 211.4 2.5 -0.8 -3.1 4.8
culpra01 252.1 3.66 2.6 -1.7 1.169 0.828 208.7 2.5 -1.3 -3.2 4.4
lolicmi01 273.6 3.91 1.8 -1 1.169 0.828 226.5 1.7 -0.8 -3.3 4.3
perryji01 279.6 4.09 1.2 -0.5 1.169 0.828 231.5 1.1 -0.4 -3.4 4.1
nolanga01 252 3.83 1.9 -1 1.121 0.828 208.6 1.7 -0.8 -3.1 4
pattima01 234 3.69 2.3 -1.2 1.169 0.828 193.8 2.2 -0.9 -2.8 4
bosmadi01 231.4 3.69 2.3 -1.4 1.169 0.828 191.6 2.2 -1.1 -2.8 3.9
   36. lieiam Posted: March 06, 2012 at 12:17 AM (#4074763)
Thanks for the numbers, DL from MN.
And hopefully I'll have the time and understanding to help with the legwork on getting Dan R's numbers updated!
   37. DL from MN Posted: March 07, 2012 at 03:35 PM (#4076084)
1. Yaz
2. Bench--or it could be Bench, Yaz


Looks like that's the theme for the 1970 election
   38. DL from MN Posted: March 09, 2012 at 02:10 PM (#4077557)
Reminder - if you haven't voted previously please post a prelim here before you vote.
   39. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: March 12, 2012 at 09:22 AM (#4078722)
Prelim (no post-season bonuses and a 1% deduction for AL players)

1) Yaz
2) Tommy Harper
3) Johnny Bench
4) Jim Fregosi
5) Roy White
6) Willie McCovey
7) Bobby Bonds
8) Billy Williams
9) Bob Gibson
10) Tony Perez
11) Sam McDowell
12) Boog Powell
   40. DL from MN Posted: March 12, 2012 at 08:20 PM (#4079343)
Posted a reminder to the Yahoo group
   41. DL from MN Posted: March 14, 2012 at 07:59 PM (#4081004)
I created a Hall of Merit page on Google+. I'll post results and such there as well as here.

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