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Friday, May 24, 2013

Most Meritorious Player: 1982 Ballot

For 1982, each voter should rank their top 13 players from both leagues combined.

Balloting is scheduled to close at 4pm EST on 06 June 2013.

Anyone can vote, even if you do not normally participate in Hall of Merit discussions. If have never participated in an MMP election, just post a preliminary ballot in the discussion thread by 05 June 2013.

For detailed rules see one of our previous ballots.

DL from MN Posted: May 24, 2013 at 10:20 AM | 25 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   1. Chris Fluit Posted: May 24, 2013 at 04:13 PM (#4451563)
1982 Final Ballot

1. Robin Yount, SS, Milwaukee Brewers: easy #1, 1st in OPS+ and RC with +8 fielding
2. Gary Carter, C, Montreal Expos: huge year at the plate (146 OPS+) and behind it (+14 fielding)
3. Mike Schmidt, 3B, Philadelphia Phillies: a credible follow-up to his MMP year of '81, 1st in NL OPS+, 2nd in RC
4. Doug DeCinces, 3B, California Angels: another ex-Oriole finds success on the West Coast, 149 OPS+ and +13 fielding
5. Steve Rogers, P, Montreal Expos: best pitcher in the NL by a wide margin, 152 ERA+ in 277 innings
6. Dwight Evans, RF, Boston Red Sox: a bit of a drop off offensively (149 OPS+ after 163) and defensively (+2 fielding after +14) but that only shows how good Dewey was in '81
7. Toby Harrah, 3B, Cleveland Indians: a last hurrah for Harrah with a 143 OPS+ and 123 Runs Created
8. Dave Stieb, P, Toronto Blue Jays: best pitcher in the AL by an even bigger margin, 138 ERA+ in 288 innings
9. Joaquin Andujar, P, St. Louis Cardinals: 148 ERA+ in 265 innings
10. Pedro Guerrero, RF/CF/3B, Los Angeles Dodgers: a butcher wherever he played but a bat (156 OPS+) that demanded he play somewhere
11. Eddie Murray, 1B, Baltimore Orioles: a 156 OPS+ and +4 fielding
12. George Brett, 3B, Kansas City Royals: would have been behind Murray whether or not he spent any time in left
13. Dale Murphy, CF/LF, Atlanta Braves: a 142 OPS+ and 118 Runs Created- flipped Murphy and Niekro from the prelim to give Dale the last ballot spot

14. Joe Niekro, P, Houston Astros: 135 ERA+ in 270 innings
15. Steve Carlton, P, Philadelphia Phillies
16. Andre Dawson, CF, Montreal Expos: a 132 OPS+ and +18 fielding
17. Al Oliver, 1B, Montreal Expos
18. Fernando Valenzuela, P, Los Angeles Dodgers
19. Cecil Cooper, 1B, Milwaukee Brewers
20. Paul Molitor, 3B, Milwaukee Brewers: the third Expo on the list followed by the second and third Brewer
   2. Chris Fluit Posted: May 24, 2013 at 04:15 PM (#4451565)
DL, for some reason, this thread isn't showing up in the HoM's Hot Topics. I got here from the front page instead.
   3. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: May 24, 2013 at 04:31 PM (#4451577)
I laugh at the idea of Pedro Guerrero playing CF in Dodger Stadium. Wow, I had no idea.
   4. Mr. C Posted: May 25, 2013 at 05:09 PM (#4452145)
1982 Final Ballot

My normal evaluation using wins above reduced replacement (WARR). Changes from the preliminary ballot are the result of averaging in the DRA fielding values with TZ.

1. Robin Yount 8.85 WARR
2. Dave Stieb 7.21 WARR
3. Gary Carter 7.07 WARR
4. Doug DeCinces 6.82 WARR
5. Steve Rogers 6.69 WARR
6. Pedro Guerrero 6.18 WARR
7. Mario Soto 6.07 WARR
8. Andre Dawson 5.96 WARR
9. Dwight Evans 5.84 WARR
10. Dale Murphy 5.81 WARR
11. Mike Schmidt 5.81 WARR
12. Ricky Henderson 5.65 WARR
13. Hal McRae 5.64 WARR

The rest of the top 20
Willie Wilson
Lance Parrish
Steve Carlton
Cecil Cooper
Eddie Murray
Keith Hernandez
Dickie Thon




   5. lieiam Posted: May 26, 2013 at 12:53 PM (#4452418)
Here's my final ballot (same as my prelim):
My usual assortment of systems lumped together with a 10% catcher bonus and no post-season included.

1 10000 Yount, Robin
2 8443 Carter, Gary
3 8171 Schmidt, Mike
4 6781 DeCinces, Doug
5 6738 Guerrero, Pedro
6 6685 Murphy, Dale
7 6676 Evans, Dwight
8 6663 Rogers, Steve
9 6573 Carlton, Steve
10 6391 Soto, Mario
11 6385 Stieb, Dave
12 6325 Dawson, Andre
13 6315 Molitor, Paul

14 6245 Murray, Eddie
15 6220 Henderson, Rickey
16 6028 Lezcano, Sixto
17 6026 Cooper, Cecil
18 5979 Harrah, Toby
19 5789 Bell, Buddy
20 5758 Parrish, Lance

   6. bjhanke Posted: May 26, 2013 at 05:38 PM (#4452661)
Royal Retro (#3) - The problem that teams had with Pedro was concealed from the public until Pedro got arrested and his lawyers argued in his defense that his I. Q. was so low (about 60) that he had no way to recognize a swindle when he saw one. The defense prevailed. With that hindsight, you can see what the Dodgers in CF, and later the Cardinals at 3B, tried to get Pedro to play those positions. He was going to stink on defense no matter where he played, because he couldn't think a play through and couldn't anticipate. But he was VERY fast when young, and had a good arm. The Dodgers hoped that his speed would get him to enough balls that he would be an acceptable CF. The Cards tried to use his arm to compensate for his lack of ability to understand the details of 3B. Neither experiment succeeded. Pedro was a born DH. But that doesn't mean that those experiments ere silly at the time. At the time, no one really knew how much Pedro's lack of I. Q. was going to affect his defense, and hitting wasn't a problem. These teams tried to put him somewhere where he DID have a defensive asset - speed or arm. I can't blame those teams for trying. Success is an 8-WAR CF or 3B, albeit driven by the bat. - Brock Hanke
   7. toratoratora Posted: May 26, 2013 at 07:00 PM (#4452702)

"Pedro Guerrero, an outfielder pressed into service at third base in 1983, once reportedly stated that his first thought whenever he was in the field was "I hope they don't hit it to me," while his second thought was "I hope they don't hit it to Sax."

IIRC, Pedro possessed a strong, but erratic arm. Kinda Zimmerman-esque in his throwing from 3b
   8. SavoyBG Posted: May 27, 2013 at 07:41 PM (#4453228)
1 - Robin Yount
2 - Mike Scmidt
3 - Dale Murphy
4 - Gary Carter
5 - Dwight Evans
6 - Dave Stieb
7 - Doug DeCinces
8 - Paul Molitor
9 - Pedro Guerrero
10 - Steve Rogers
11 - Joaquin Andujar
12 - Joe Niekro
13 - Steve Carlton
   9. DL from MN Posted: May 28, 2013 at 10:40 AM (#4453522)
No substantial change from my prelim due to postseason credit

1) Robin Yount
2) Gary Carter (C bonus)
3) Mike Schmidt
4) Pedro Guerrero
5) Doug DeCinces
6) Steve Rogers - Top pitcher due to hitting
7) Joe Niekro - best pitcher without hitting
8) Dale Murphy
9) Dave Stieb
10) Mario Soto
11) Eddie Murray
12) Sixto Lezcano
13) Dickie Thon

14-20) Terry Kennedy, Buddy Bell, Andre Dawson, Joe Morgan, Rick Sutcliffe, Toby Harrah, Dwight Evans
21-23) Cecil Cooper, Lonnie Smith, George Brett
Ozzie Smith
   10. EricC Posted: May 31, 2013 at 06:34 AM (#4456617)
1982 MMP ballot. Explanations in discussion thread.

1. Robin Yount
2. Gary Carter
3. Mike Schmidt
4. Steve Rogers
5. Dave Stieb
6. Dwight Evans
7. Lance Parrish
8. Dale Murphy
9. Joaquin Andujar
10. Terry Kennedy
11. Joe Morgan
12. Pedro Guerrero
13. Eddie Murray

14-20: Paul Molitor, Cecil Cooper, Rickey Henderson, Sixto Lezcano,
Doug DeCinces, Joe Niekro, Mario Soto
   11. Kiko Sakata Posted: May 31, 2013 at 01:24 PM (#4456944)
See comment #50 in the discussion thread for explanations and honorable mentions.

1. Robin Yount
2. Steve Carlton
3. Dale Murphy
4. Gary Carter
5. Andre Dawson
6. Dwight Evans
7. Fernando Valenzuela
8. Mike Schmidt
9. Steve Rogers
10. Doug DeCinces
11. Paul Molitor
12. Pedro Guerrero
13. Lou Whitaker
   12. caiman Posted: June 01, 2013 at 10:50 AM (#4457661)
The RPA Top AL Hitters for 1982:

Robin Yount SS 26 Milwaukee 44.78
Eddie Murray 1B 26 Baltimore 36.26
Toby Harrah 3B 33 Cleveland 33.67
Reggie Jackson OF 36 California 31.90
John Lowenstein OF 35 Baltimore 29.53
Andre Thornton DH 32 Cleveland 29.36
Dwight Evans OF 30 Boston 29.12
Doug DeCinces 3B 31 California 28.71
Gorman Thomas OF 31 Milwaukee 27.85
Hal McRae DH 36 Kansas City 26.66
Paul Molitor 3B 25 Milwaukee 25.87
Cecil Cooper 1B 32 Milwaukee 25.71
Brian Downing OF 31 California 25.60
Greg Luzinski DH 31 Chicago 25.29
George Brett 3B 29 Kansas City 25.00
Gary Roenicke OF 27 Baltimore 22.75
Dave Winfield OF 30 New York 22.69
Oscar Gamble DH 32 New York 22.26
Fred Lynn OF 30 California 20.40
Rickey Henderson OF 23 Oakland 20.38
   13. caiman Posted: June 01, 2013 at 10:51 AM (#4457662)
The AL Top Pitchers for 1982:

Dave Stieb 17-14 24 Toronto 26.35
Jim Clancy 16-14 26 Toronto 21.48
Len Barker 15-11 26 Cleveland 21.35
Jim Beattie 8-12 27 Seattle 18.29
Bob Stanley 12-7 27 Boston 17.71
Jim Palmer 15-5 36 Baltimore 16.36
Floyd Bannister 12-13 27 Seattle 16.32
Dan Petry 15-9 23 Detroit 15.08
Bill Caudill 12-9 25 Seattle 14.75
Rich Gossage 4-5 30 New York 14.65
Dennis Eckersley 13-13 27 Boston 14.56
   14. caiman Posted: June 01, 2013 at 10:53 AM (#4457664)
The NL Top Hitters for 1982:

Mike Schmidt 3B 32 Philadelphia 49.60
Pedro Guerrero OF 26 Los Angeles 43.76
Joe Morgan 2B 38 San Francisco 38.05
Sixto Lezcano OF 28 San Diego 31.20
Dusty Baker OF 33 Los Angeles 30.12
Dale Murphy OF 26 Atlanta 29.47
Jason Thompson 1B 27 Pittsburgh 29.14
Al Oliver 1B 35 Montreal 28.31
Jack Clark OF 26 San Francisco 27.79
Gary Carter C 28 Montreal 23.74
Leon Durham OF 24 Chicago 23.58
Terry Kennedy C 26 San Diego 22.02
Darrell Evans CI 35 San Francisco 20.86
Ruppert Jones OF 27 San Diego 19.59
Andre Dawson OF 27 Montreal 19.26
Lonnie Smith OF 26 St. Louis 18.28
Reggie Smith 1B 37 San Francisco 18.02
Gary Matthews OF 31 Philadelphia 17.38
Keith Hernandez 1B 28 St. Louis 17.26
   15. caiman Posted: June 01, 2013 at 10:55 AM (#4457665)
The NL Top Pitchers for 1982:

Steve Rogers 19-8 32 Montreal 27.98
Joaquin Andujar 15-10 29 St. Louis 25.50
Mario Soto 14-13 25 Cincinnati 24.46
Joe Niekro 17-12 37 Houston 21.10
Gene Garber 8-10 34 Atlanta 17.93
Jerry Reuss 18-11 33 Los Angeles 17.71
Manny Sarmiento 9-4 26 Pittsburgh 16.79
Steve Bedrosian 8-6 24 Atlanta 16.56
Fernando Valenzuela 19-13 21 Los Angeles 15.93
Kent Tekulve 12-8 35 Pittsburgh 15.22
John Candelaria 12-7 28 Pittsburgh 13.18
   16. bjhanke Posted: June 03, 2013 at 01:23 AM (#4458815)
My method of adding together the ordinals from Win Shares and WAR did not do well this year, due to 1) three-way ties for both the #6 and #9 spot, and 2) a couple of pitchers (Rogers and Soto) who would normally be must-dos because they rank so high in WAR, but who are hindered by the fact that my system's #12 and #13 guys (Stieb and Cooper) are in the same category of having very high rankings in one system and low ones in the other. Cooper did not play well in the postseason, so I did drop him behind Rogers, but I have no way to fit Soto in there. I have noticed that the ballots posted so far do not agree with mine or each other in the middle and low rankings, although there is pretty solid agreement at the top. My methods do not have a single player from the Cardinal World Champions, although it has some from the Brewers. Other ballots do have Cardinals, particularly Joaquin Andujar. But there just aren't any Cardinals who rank particularly high in WS or WAR. The best overall ranking is Lonnie Smith at #16 overall, 17th in WAR and 21st in Win Shares. I may add comments later, if this week gives me some time before the deadline, but I decided that it was a good idea to post up the ballot now, just in case things get really crazy. - Brock Hanke

1. Robin Yount
2. Gary Carter
3. Mike Schmidt
4. Pedro Guerrero
5. Dwight Evans
6. Paul Molitor (good postseason breaks tie with DeCinces and Murphy))
7. Doug DeCinces
8. Dale Murphy (not a good postseason)
9. Rickey Henderson (because I have more faith in Rickey than I have in either...)
10. Toby Harrah (or...)
11. Andre Dawson (ranked unreasonably high by WAR)
12. Dave Stieb
13. Captain America (Steve Rogers, who unaccountably played for a team in Canada)
   17. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: June 03, 2013 at 03:59 PM (#4459322)
Ballot is on the way. Had problems connecting...
   18. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: June 03, 2013 at 04:07 PM (#4459332)
1982 MMP Official Ballot (no bonuses for postseason play)

1) Robin Yount: Best ML player and shortstop by a mile.
2) Mike Schmidt: Best ML player third baseman.
3) Gary Carter: Best ML catcher.
4) Pedro Guerrero: Best ML right fielder.
5) Paul Molitor: Best AL third baseman.
6) Dale Murphy: Best ML center fielder.
7) Cecil Cooper: Best ML first baseman.
8) Sixto Lezcano
9) Joe Morgan: Best ML second baseman.
10) Doug DeCinces
11) Rickey Henderson: Best ML left fielder.
12) Dwight Evans: Best AL right fielder.
13) Steve Rogers: Best ML pitcher.
   19. DL from MN Posted: June 04, 2013 at 01:30 PM (#4460072)
Only 9 ballots so far.
   20. DL from MN Posted: June 05, 2013 at 09:44 AM (#4460884)
No ballots from: Rob Wood, AG#1F, Yardape. I admit this is a non-controversial year (next year should be better) but 9 ballots is an all-time low.
   21. Rob_Wood Posted: June 05, 2013 at 11:54 AM (#4461058)

My 1982 MMP ballot:

1. Robin Yount -- best by far
2. Gary Carter -- great underrated season
3. Mike Schmidt -- led NL in OBP and SLG
4. Doug DeCinces -- career season in first year with Angels
5. Andre Dawson -- when he was still a good center fielder
6. Dwight Evans -- led AL in OBP
7. Steve Rogers -- led NL in ERA, ERA+, WAR, and Win Value
8. Pedro Guerrero -- a hitter in search of a position
9. Toby Harrah -- last good season of decent career
10. Dale Murphy -- led Braves to post-season for first time since 1969
11. Paul Molitor -- with some post-season credit
12. Dave Stieb -- led AL in IP, shutouts, and WAR
13. Steve Carlton -- led NL in IP, wins, starts, complete games, shutouts, and strikeouts
   22. DL from MN Posted: June 06, 2013 at 03:43 PM (#4462573)
I'll hold off until I get Yardape's final ballot.
   23. Yardape Posted: June 07, 2013 at 11:59 AM (#4463430)
Oh man, sorry guys. I meant to get this in yesterday and just got busy and forgot.

1. Robin Yount: By a fair distance, actually. Maybe the best hitting season, coupled with good defence at shortstop.
2. Dwight Evans -- Best RFer
3. Paul Molitor -- Best 3B
4. Gary Carter -- NL MMP, Best C
5. Dale Murphy -- Best CF
7. Doug DeCinces
8. Joe Morgan -- Best 2B
9. Andre Dawson
10. Toby Harrah
11. Mike Schmidt
12. Lonnie Smith -- Best LF
13. Gorman Thomas

No pitchers, although Carlton just missed the ballot. Roger was my #2 pitcher; Stieb was the best pitcher in the AL.
   24. DL from MN Posted: June 07, 2013 at 04:09 PM (#4463761)
Balloting is closed
   25. DL from MN Posted: June 07, 2013 at 04:13 PM (#4463765)
Yardape - you forgot #6. I took Pedro Guerrero off your prelim. Let me know if this is not correct.

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