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Tuesday, June 25, 2013

Most Meritorious Player: 1983 Ballot

For 1983, each voter should rank their top 13 players from both leagues combined.

Balloting is scheduled to close at 4pm EST on 10 July 2013.

Anyone can vote, even if you do not normally participate in Hall of Merit discussions. If have never participated in an MMP election, just post a preliminary ballot in the discussion thread by 9 July 2013.

For detailed rules see one of our previous ballots.

DL from MN Posted: June 25, 2013 at 11:34 AM | 22 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   1. DL from MN Posted: June 25, 2013 at 11:52 AM (#4477483)
Extra time due to the holiday.
   2. Chris Fluit Posted: June 25, 2013 at 02:02 PM (#4477589)
1983 Ballot

1. Cal Ripken Jr., SS, Baltimore Orioles: 144 OPS+ plus very good defense at short (+11 fielding runs)
2. Wade Boggs, 3B, Boston Red Sox: 150 OPS+ plus pretty good defense as third (+7 fielding runs)
3. Robin Yount, SS, Milwaukee Brewers: a nice encore performance to his 1982 MMP, but his 150 OPS+ is dragged down by mediocre defense (-3 fielding runs, plus time at DH)
4. Mike Schmidt, 3B, Philadelphia Phillies: the best player in the NL with a 156 OPS+ and +5 fielding runs
5. Eddie Murray, 1B, Baltimore Orioles: a 156 OPS+ and +9 fielding runs
6. Dale Murphy, CF, Atlanta Braves: time spent in LF dents his defensive bonus enough that he fails to pass Murray for 5th; a 149 OPS+ and league-leading 131 runs created
7. Dickie Thon, SS, Houston Astros: a huge season before Thon dives off a cliff; a 127 OPS+ with +19 fielding runs
8. Dave Stieb, P, Toronto Blue Jays: the best AL pitcher for the second year in a row with a 142 ERA+ in 278 innings
9. Dan Quisenberry, RP, Kansas City Royals: a 210 ERA+ in 139 innings for one of the last great "fireman" seasons
10. Mario Soto, P, Cincinnati Reds: the best pitcher in the NL (sorry, John Denny) with a 140 ERA+ in 273 innings
11. Pedro Guerrero, 3B, Los Angeles Dodgers: still a butcher in the field (minus 12 fielding runs), but a bruiser with the bat (150 OPS+)
12. Alan Trammell, SS, Detroit Tigers: the 4th shortstop to make the ballot beats out the rest of the quartet due to his all-around game
13. Andre Dawson, CF, Montreal Expos: his knees haven't given out yet; Dawson is still good for a 141 OPS+ and +9 fielding in center

14. John Denny, P, Philadelphia Phillies: I'm a little surprised that Denny misses the ballot but his 242 innings are kind of low even if his 152 ERA+ is impressive
15. Gary Carter, C, Montreal Expos: a phenomenal defensive season (+27) is almost enough to get onto the ballot despite a less-than-phenomenal bat (116 OPS+)
16. Rick Honeycutt, P, Texas Rangers: a league-leading 165 ERA+ to go with 213 innings
17. Lou Whitaker, 2B, Detroit Tigers: top ten in runs created with 114
18. Rickey Henderson, LF, Oakland Athletics: a 139 OPS+ with significant positive contributions on the bases (+12) and in the field (+10)
19. Jim Rice, LF, Boston Red Sox
20. Darrell Evans, 3B, San Francisco Giants: a couple of '70s stars reappearing on the list, if not the ballot, thanks to a 141 OPS+ and +12 fielding for Rice and a 150 OPS+ at third for Evans
   3. DL from MN Posted: June 25, 2013 at 03:37 PM (#4477658)
1983 Ballot

Dan R's data likes SS quite a bit so I have SS ahead of the WS/WAR consensus.

1) Cal Ripken - fantastic defender at SS plus maximum playing time.
2) Robin Yount - Better offensive rate production than Cal but poorer defense
3) Mike Schmidt - I always knew Mike Schmidt was good but didn't realize that he was this consistently excellent
4) Dickie Thon - 3rd SS in 4 places
5) John Denny - Best P, helped by postseason credit
6) Wade Boggs - Great season but Schmidt was a better defender
7) Alan Trammell - another SS
8) Tim Raines - baserunning and fielding matter
9) Dale Murphy - NL MVP winner is bested by Raines, Denny, Thon and Schmidt on my ballot among NL players. Fielding grades out as average
10) Eddie Murray - better bat than Ripken but great defensive SS is that much better than average defensive 1B.
11) Dave Stieb - Best AL pitcher
12) Pedro Guerrero - small postseason bump, only below average fielder on the ballot
13) Jose Cruz - narrowly grabs last slot

14-20) Rickey Henderson, Andre Dawson, Gary Carter, Mario Soto, Carlton Fisk, Lou Whitaker, Steve Carlton
   4. SavoyBG Posted: June 26, 2013 at 02:36 PM (#4478433)
1. Ripken
2. Schmidt
3. Boggs
4. Yount
5. Murphy
6. Guerrero
7. Quissenberry
8. Murray
9. Henderson
10. Cruz
11. Thon
12. Soto
13. Stieb
   5. Mr. C Posted: June 28, 2013 at 12:00 PM (#4480136)
1983 Ballot

Wins Above reduced replacement (WARR) Described more fully in the Discussion Thread.

1. Wade Boggs 7.96 WARR
2. Jose Cruz 7.30 WARR
3. Mike Schmidt 7.23 WARR
4. Cal Ripken 7.05 WARR
5. Dave Stieb 6.95 WARR
6. Dickie Thon 6.72 WARR
7. Eddie Murray 6.61 WARR
8. Dale Murphy 6.36 WARR
9. Rickie Henderson 6.13 WARR
10. Tim Raines 6.02 WARR
11. Mario Soto 5.84 WARR
12. Gary Carter 5.79 WARR
13. Robin Yount 5.76 WARR

Rest of the top 20
Lou Whitaker
John Denny
Pedro Guerrero
John Castino
Bob Stanley
Lloyd Moseby
Richard Dotson
   6. lieiam Posted: June 29, 2013 at 07:20 PM (#4480988)
1983 ballot

Same as my prelim (which has explanation)
1 Ripken, Cal 9893
2 Boggs, Wade 9093
3 Schmidt, Mike 8937
4 Yount, Robin 8669
5 Thon, Dickie 8303
6 Murphy, Dale 8014
7 Henderson, Rickey 8001
8 Murray, Eddie 7957
9 Denny, John 7451
10 Stieb, Dave 7397
11 Cruz, Jose 7316
12 Whitaker, Lou 7098
13 Guerrero, Pedro 7023

14 Carter, Gary 7022
15 Soto, Mario 6954
16 Dawson, Andre 6843
17 Trammell, Alan 6835
18 Raines, Tim 6762
19 Quisenberry, Dan 6632
20 Moseby, Lloyd 6401
   7. EricC Posted: June 30, 2013 at 03:44 PM (#4481354)
1983 MMP ballot. Same as prelim. See Discussion
thread for explanations and comments.

1. Cal Ripken
2. Mike Schmidt
3. Robin Yount
4. Wade Boggs
5. Dale Murphy
6. Dave Stieb
7. Rickey Henderson
8. Eddie Murray
9. Pedro Guerrero
10. Dickie Thon
11. Carlton Fisk
12. Mario Soto
13. Jose Cruz

14-20. John Denny, Gary Carter, Lou Whitaker, Darrell Evans,
Terry Kennedy, Tim Raines, Dan Quisenberry
   8. John DiFool2 Posted: July 03, 2013 at 11:49 AM (#4483980)
I wonder how often Boggs will win-he's in the top three for WAR 6 times in the upcoming 7 years, but may only win in 2008, with his closest rivals being pitchers.
   9. bjhanke Posted: July 03, 2013 at 06:47 PM (#4484389)
Chris - Just to check, you have Wade Boggs ahead of Mike Schmidt. The only stats you cite are OPS+ (156-150 in favor of Schmidt) and Fielding Runs ( +7 for Boggs, +5 for Schmidt). I checked and there's very little difference in time played. I doubt that you think that two fielding runs are worth more than six points of OPS+, so something else must be going on. Do you know what it is? League adjustment or something?

I will admit to being surprised, when I looked them up, at how little MVP support Boggs got. Even when he hit 24 homers, setting off a string of six years where he led the AL in INTENTIONAL walks, he got very little MVP love. Does anyone know why? Was it just because he was perceived as a leadoff man who wasn't fast enough to steal bases? Was it that he didn't drive in many runs? Did the voters overadjust for Fenway (which would be a first for them)? Do MVP voters not like fried chicken? I don't get it. - Brock Hanke
   10. Chris Fluit Posted: July 04, 2013 at 12:36 AM (#4484655)
I wonder how often Boggs will win-he's in the top three for WAR 6 times in the upcoming 7 years, but may only win in 2008, with his closest rivals being pitchers.


2008? Or did you mean to say 1988?

Looking ahead, it's likely that Boggs will be first on my 1987 ballot. I remember that as the year of Trammell vs. Bell in which Trammell was clearly the better player of the two contending teams. But I hadn't realized that Boggs had the best season of them all even though his Red Sox didn't really challenge for the pennant.
   11. Chris Fluit Posted: July 04, 2013 at 12:43 AM (#4484659)
Chris - Just to check, you have Wade Boggs ahead of Mike Schmidt. The only stats you cite are OPS+ (156-150 in favor of Schmidt) and Fielding Runs ( +7 for Boggs, +5 for Schmidt). I checked and there's very little difference in time played. I doubt that you think that two fielding runs are worth more than six points of OPS+, so something else must be going on. Do you know what it is? League adjustment or something?


Good question, Brock. I also factor in playing time and runs created. In this case, Boggs' runs created of 130 creates the separation between him and Schmidt (rc of 117).

I will admit to being surprised, when I looked them up, at how little MVP support Boggs got. Even when he hit 24 homers, setting off a string of six years where he led the AL in INTENTIONAL walks, he got very little MVP love. Does anyone know why? Was it just because he was perceived as a leadoff man who wasn't fast enough to steal bases? Was it that he didn't drive in many runs? Did the voters overadjust for Fenway (which would be a first for them)? Do MVP voters not like fried chicken? I don't get it. - Brock Hanke


I would guess that it's the lack of RBIs. As a top of the order guy, Boggs rarely accumulated the big RBI totals that MVP voters were looking for in the 1980s. He finished in the top ten in batting average 11 times but he never cracked 100 RBIs or the top ten in that category. Somehow, the voters picked up on Rickey's value due to the stolen bases but they never quite understood Boggs' contributions.
   12. bjhanke Posted: July 04, 2013 at 05:44 PM (#4485005)
Chris - Thanks for the answer(s). But I do have one follow-up question. Do you just count raw RC or RC per Offensive Game (I'm assuming ballpark adjustments in either case)? I am VERY aware that you may have counted Offensive Games somewhere else, since you seem to have a sophisticated system. But in any case, RC give a different (and IMO better) look at a player's offense than OPS+. Thanks again. - Brock
   13. Kiko Sakata Posted: July 07, 2013 at 12:28 PM (#4486716)
My ballot. See comment #43 of discussion thread for explanation:

1. Cal Ripken
2. Dale Murphy
3. Robin Yount
4. Eddie Murray
5. Lou Whitaker
6. John Denny
7. LaMarr Hoyt
8. Mike Schmidt
9. Dickie Thon
10. Carlton Fisk
11. Tim Raines
12. Dan Quisenberry
13. Wade Boggs
   14. bjhanke Posted: July 09, 2013 at 12:02 AM (#4488415)
Here's a preliminary ballot for Brock Hanke. I'm going to the dentist Tuesday, for something that's pretty bad and I don't know exactly what it is. Therefore, I have no idea whether I'm going to be able to write anything coherent between that and the deadline. This ballot is the result of my usual methods, which everybody knows by now. If 'm not drugged to death tomorrow, I'll add comments. Otherwise, just count this one.

1. Cal Ripken, Jr.
2. Wade Boggs
3. Robin Yount
4. Mike Schmidt
5. Dale Murphy
6. Dickie Thon
7. Rickey!
8. Eddie Murray
9. Gary Carter
10. Lou Whitaker
11. Jose Cruz
12. Pedro Guerrero
13. John Denny
   15. DL from MN Posted: July 09, 2013 at 09:58 AM (#4488595)
No ballot yet from Rob Wood, Yardape, John Murphy.
   16. bjhanke Posted: July 09, 2013 at 12:32 PM (#4488774)
DL - The above prelim is probably going to be my final ballot. I turn out to be in for a root canal, and am currently drugged to the hilt, trying to control pain and get rid of the infection. I probably better not try to rate players in this condition. - Brock
   17. Rob_Wood Posted: July 10, 2013 at 03:38 AM (#4489566)

My final 1983 MMP ballot:

1. Cal Ripken -- his breakout season
2. Wade Boggs -- his first batting title
3. Dickie Thon -- career year hitting 20 HR
4. Robin Yount -- a decline from 1982, but still pretty darned good
5. Dale Murphy -- 2nd of his back to back MVP's
6. Rickey Henderson -- stole 100+ bases for second year in a row
7. Mike Schmidt -- led NL in OPS+ again
8. Gary Carter -- good year among weak crop of catchers
9. Andre Dawson -- last year in CF, led NL with 341 total bases
10. Lou Whitaker -- hit a career high .320
11. Eddie Murray -- in the middle of his 6-5-2-2-4-5 MVP run
12. John Denny -- 19-6 with 152 ERA+ for pennant winning Phils
13. Jose Cruz -- hit a career high .318
   18. DL from MN Posted: July 10, 2013 at 04:30 PM (#4490217)
Have received no requests for extension. Pinged John Murphy and no response. 9 ballots is an all-time low but I don't see a reason to keep balloting open.
   19. caiman Posted: July 30, 2013 at 10:25 AM (#4507716)
Here's my 1983 RPA top hitter's in the AL, by runs produced:

Eddie Murray 1B 27 Baltimore 40.38
Robin Yount SS 27 Milwaukee 35.13
Rickey Henderson OF 24 Oakland 32.61
Wade Boggs 3B 25 Boston 32.48
Jim Rice OF 30 Boston 28.22
Cecil Cooper 1B 33 Milwaukee 27.48
Cal Ripken SS 22 Baltimore 26.28
Bobby Grich 2B 34 California 26.21
George Brett 3B 30 Kansas City 26.04
Alan Trammell SS 25 Detroit 22.98
Lou Whitaker 2B 26 Detroit 22.43
Dave Winfield OF 31 New York 22.20
Ken Singleton DH 36 Baltimore 22.09
Greg Luzinski DH 32 Chicago 21.68
Don Baylor DH 34 New York 20.95
Larry Herndon OF 29 Detroit 20.08
Willie Aikens 1B 28 Kansas City 19.74
Chet Lemon OF 28 Detroit 19.61
Willie Upshaw 1B 26 Toronto 18.02
Ben Oglivie OF 34 Milwaukee 18.01
Fred Lynn OF 31 California 17.48
Carlton Fisk C 35 Chicago 17.13
Ted Simmons C 33 Milwaukee 16.57
   20. caiman Posted: July 30, 2013 at 10:34 AM (#4507729)
Here's my 1983 RPA top pitchers in the AL, by runs produced:

Dave Stieb 17-12 25 Toronto 32.14
LaMarr Hoyt 24-10 28 Chicago 26.87
Dan Quisenberry 5-3 30 Kansas City 24.00
Mike Boddicker 16-8 25 Baltimore 19.28
Dave Righetti 14-8 24 New York 17.53
Floyd Bannister 16-10 28 Chicago 14.97
Danny Darwin 8-13 27 Texas 14.45
Storm Davis 13-7 21 Baltimore 13.81
Bob Stanley 8-10 28 Boston 12.29
Ron Guidry 21-9 32 New York 11.87
Tom Burgmeier 6-7 39 Oakland 11.68
George Frazier 4-4 28 New York 11.59
Charlie Hough 15-13 35 Texas 11.56
Dave Stewart 10-4 26 Tex/LA-NL 11.43
Salome Barojas 3-3 26 Chicago 10.97
Bert Blyleven 7-10 32 Cleveland 10.97
   21. caiman Posted: July 30, 2013 at 10:40 AM (#4507736)
Here's my 1983 RPA top hitters in the NL, by runs produced:

Mike Schmidt 3B 33 Philadelphia 42.27
Jose Cruz OF 35 Houston 38.34
Dale Murphy OF 27 Atlanta 36.01
Pedro Guerrero 3B 27 Los Angeles 34.08
Darrell Evans 1B 36 San Francisco 29.62
Tim Raines OF 23 Montreal 28.55
Keith Hernandez 1B 29 NY/STL 24.74
Dickie Thon SS 25 Houston 22.98
Andre Dawson OF 28 Montreal 20.02
George Hendrick 1B 33 St. Louis 19.75
Bill Doran 2B 25 Houston 18.67
Darryl Strawberry OF 21 New York 17.95
Terry Puhl OF 26 Houston 17.80
Lonnie Smith OF 27 St. Louis 16.66
Bob Horner 3B 25 Atlanta 16.30
Keith Moreland OF 29 Chicago 16.14
Leon Durham OF 25 Chicago 15.53
Joe Morgan 2B 39 Philadelphia 15.42
   22. caiman Posted: July 30, 2013 at 10:41 AM (#4507741)
Here's my 1983 top pitchers in the NL, by runs produced:

Atlee Hammaker 10-9 25 San Francisco 21.72
Mario Soto 17-13 26 Cincinnati 20.34
John Denny 19-6 30 Philadelphia 18.90
Alejandro Pena 12-9 24 Los Angeles 18.59
Jesse Orosco 13-7 26 New York 17.06
Tom Niedenfuer 8-3 23 Los Angeles 16.89
Kent Tekulve 7-5 36 Pittsburgh 15.86
Steve Rogers 17-12 33 Montreal 15.00
Lee Smith 4-10 25 Chicago 14.26
Bob Welch 15-12 26 Los Angeles 13.37
Larry McWilliams 15-8 29 Pittsburgh 13.16
Carlos Diaz 3-1 25 New York 13.06
Craig McMurtry 15-9 23 Atlanta 12.87
Jose DeLeon 7-3 22 Pittsburgh 12.70
Al Holland 8-4 30 Philadelphia 12.34
Gary Lavelle 7-4 24 San Francisco 11.78
Steve Howe 4-7 25 Los Angeles 11.59

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