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Friday, April 22, 2016

Most Meritorious Player: 1992 Ballot

For 1992, each voter should rank the top 13 players from all leagues combined.

Balloting is scheduled to close at 4pm EDT on 4 May 2016.

Anyone can vote, even if you do not normally participate in Hall of Merit discussions. If have never participated in an MMP election, just post a preliminary ballot in the discussion thread by 3 May 2016.

For detailed rules see one of our previous ballots.

DL from MN Posted: April 22, 2016 at 01:04 PM | 19 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   1. DL from MN Posted: April 22, 2016 at 02:31 PM (#5202747)
1992 Ballot

1) Barry Bonds - best bat by 2 wins over Frank Thomas, small postseason bonus
2) Ryne Sandberg - 2.2 FWAA, outstanding glove in 1992
3) Darren Daulton - C bonus, better bat than Sandberg
4) Greg Maddux - best P
5) Roger Clemens - fewer IP than Maddux but good rate production
6) Mike Mussina
7) Gary Sheffield - defense not bad at 3B this year
8) Kevin Appier
9) Frank Thomas - poor fielding drags down the value of his bat
10) Barry Larkin
11) Dave Hollins
12) Andy Van Slyke - small postseason bonus
13) Larry Walker - good glove defense

14-20) Tim Raines, Mickey Tettleton, Ozzie Smith, Mark McGwire, Carlos Baerga, Sid Fernandez, Rickey Henderson
   2. Chris Fluit Posted: April 23, 2016 at 11:13 AM (#5203345)
1992 Ballot:

1. Barry Bonds, LF, Pittsburgh Pirates: an all-time great season, 204 OPS+ and 30 RC more than second place
2. Darren Daulton, C, Philadelphia Phillies: a big bat (156 OPS+) and a big catcher bonus
3. Frank Thomas, 1B, Chicago White Sox: 2nd in AL OPS+ (174), 1st in RC (142)
4. Ryne Sandberg, 2B, Chicago Cubs: another great year, 148 OPS+, 117 RC and +9 fielding
5. Greg Maddux, P, Chicago Cubs: 1st in NL in both ERA+ (166) and IP (268)
6. Roger Clemens, P, Boston Red Sox: 1st in AL ERA+ with 174 and top five in IP with 246
7. Gary Sheffield, 3B, Milwaukee Brewers: stretched defensively at third (-8 fielding) but the best bat besides Bonds
7. Mark McGwire, 1B, Oakland Athletics
9. Edgar Martinez, 3B/DH, Seattle Mariners: if he was a full-time third baseman, Edgar would have pulled ahead of Big Mac
10. Fred McGriff, 1B, San Diego Padres: 3rd in OPS+, 5th in RC
11. Andy Van Slyke, CF, Pittsburgh Pirates: 150 OPS+ from a defense first position
12. Mike Mussina, P, Baltimore Orioles: great combo of rate (157 ERA+) and bulk (241 IP)
13. Roberto Alomar, 2B, Toronto Blue Jays: top ten in RC and a 130 OPS+ from the keystone

14. Carlos Baerga, 2B, Cleveland Indians: just a nip behind Alomar
15. Bob Tewksbury, P, St. Louis Cardinals
16. Kevin Appier, P, Kansas City Royals: 2nd in AL ERA+ but only 208 IP
17. Kirby Puckett, CF, Minnesota Twins
18. Dave Hollins, 3B, Philadelphia Phillies: the forgotten man on Philly's beer-league team
19. Barry Larkin, SS, Cincinnati Reds
20. Curt Schilling, P, Philadelphia Phillies
   3. ThickieDon Posted: April 25, 2016 at 09:36 AM (#5204500)
1992 final

1. Bonds, B.
2. Sandberg, R.
3. Daulton, D.
4. Maddux, G.
5. Thomas, F.
6. Clemens, R.
7. Sheffield, G.
8. Alomar, R.
9. Van Slyke, A.
10. McGwire, M.
11. Martinez, E.
12. Henderson, R.
13. Lofton, K.
   4. DL from MN Posted: April 25, 2016 at 10:15 AM (#5204530)
ThickieDon - I'd like some comments in either the prelim or the final. I'll count the ballot but a ballot without comments doesn't give much insight.
   5. ThickieDon Posted: April 25, 2016 at 03:23 PM (#5204814)
1. Bonds, B. - 198 wRC+ well above everyone else (and, for perspective, higher than Bryce Harper's in 2015); strong baserunning, too (though defense had begun to decline)
2. Sandberg, R. - top 10 offensive player + good defense at premium position
3. Daulton, D. - best offensive season for a catcher since 1972
4. Maddux, G. - 268 IP (4th most of 1990s) of 166 ERA+ pitching
5. Thomas, F. - 2nd best hitter of 1992; takes hit for poor defense at 1B
6. Clemens, R. - led league with 174 ERA+ in 246 IP; five shutouts
7. Sheffield, G. - 3rd best bat; OK glove at 3B; docked for baserunning
8. Alomar, R. - top 10 hitter overall, top 10 baserunner, top 10 in OBP, solid glove at 2B
9. Van Slyke, A. - top 10 hitter + decent CF glove puts him ahead of better offensive players at #10, 11, 12
10. McGwire, M. - top 5 offense; docked for defense
11. Martinez, E. - top 5 offense; DH penalty
12. Henderson, R. - in limited action (one PA less than qualifying), put up huge offense (158 wRC+) and (obviously) solid baserunning numbers; in a full season he would have been #2 or 3
13. Lofton, K. - outstanding defense and baserunning, above average hitting
   6. DL from MN Posted: April 25, 2016 at 04:49 PM (#5204941)
Thanks. The Daulton comment (for example) is pretty interesting. I didn't ever remember Daulton having a Johnny Bench season but it looks like he did.
   7. ThickieDon Posted: April 26, 2016 at 05:18 PM (#5205812)
It's true. He had power when league power was way down (in 1992 at least, by 1993 the ball was pretty lively again!), but he also walked a ton while hardly striking out. A great hitter.

A friend of mine attributes his big year or two solely to 'roids, and though we know that Daulton took them (I believe he admits to it), I don't think it's that simple.
   8. caiman Posted: April 28, 2016 at 02:41 PM (#5207679)
Here's the RPA highest rated per runs produced over the average player:

1. Barry Bonds 63.03 runs
2. Frank Thomas 61.52 runs
3. Mark McGwire 44.39 runs
4. Darren Daulton 41.10 runs
5. Greg Maddux 39.81 runs
6. Paul Molitor 37.40 runs
7. Roger Clemens 35.51 runs
8. Andy Van Slyke 35.04 runs
9. Dave Hollins 33.82 runs
10. Rickey Henderson 33.53 runs
11. Brett Butler 33.34 runs
12. Ryne Sandberg 32.50 runs
13. John Kruk 31.97 runs
14. Edgar Martinez 31.70 runs
   9. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: April 29, 2016 at 03:54 PM (#5208504)
Official 1992 Ballot (no postseason bonuses):

1) Barry Bonds: Best (easily) ML player and left fielder
1) Darren Daulton: Best ML catcher - one of the best at that position all-time, too.
3) Andy Van Slyke: Best ML center fielder.
4) Barry Larkin: Best ML shortstop.
5) Roberto Alomar: Best ML second baseman.
6) Ryne Sandberg: Best NL second baseman.
7) Frank Thomas: Best ML first baseman.
8) Gary Sheffield: Best ML third baseman.
9) Roger Clemens: Best ML pitcher.
10) Greg Maddux: Best NL pitcher.
11) Kirby Puckett: Best AL center fielder.
12) Dave Hollins: Best NL third baseman.
13) Paul Molitor: Best ML DH.
   10. bjhanke Posted: April 30, 2016 at 07:32 AM (#5208842)
Darren Daulton had a breakthrough season at age 28 in 1990, but was dreadful in 1991 (probably hurt, as he missed a lot of games). Then he not just came back, but exploded in 1992 and 93, hitting 27 and 24 homers, the only two seasons he went over 15. That seems more impressive than it is. 1990, 92, and 93 were the only years he played 140 games. After that, for a few years, he played well, but in limited time; then he just faded away. I would be a LOT more inclined to write off the bad seasons to injuries and early trouble with batting average than to write off the good ones to steroids. Such studies as I have been able to do, given the next to nothing that we really know about steroids and MLB players, have indicated that they have had little or no effect on play. Maybe they helped a little with injury recovery, but the big-number seasons they get blamed for all turn out to have perfectly full explanations without having to resort to steroids. My guess is that Daulton just couldn't stay healthy. - Brock Hanke
   11. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: May 01, 2016 at 01:42 PM (#5209335)
A friend of mine attributes his big year or two solely to 'roids, and though we know that Daulton took them (I believe he admits to it), I don't think it's that simple.


I agree. Every outlier season can't be credited to PED's, unless all such seasons before the '80s were of that nature, too. Obviously, that's silly.
   12. Ken Griffey Junior Bacon Cheeseburger Posted: May 01, 2016 at 05:41 PM (#5209497)
Darren Daulton had a breakthrough season at age 28 in 1990, but was dreadful in 1991 (probably hurt, as he missed a lot of games).


IIRC, that was the year he and Dykstra were in a serious car accident coming back from John Kruk's bachelor party.
   13. bjhanke Posted: May 02, 2016 at 04:36 AM (#5209782)
Here’s Brock Hanke’s final ballot for 1992. This year was just more of the same, really. Here are the top five players in DL’s header, according to Win Shares:

Barry Bonds
Frank Thomas
Andy Van Slyke
Gary Sheffield
Ryne Sandberg

Here are the five best, according to WAR:

Greg Maddux
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Mike Mussina
Kevin Appier

Win Shares has Appier ranked 41st, which is why he’s not on my ballot. WAR has Van Slyke ranked 23rd, which at lest leaves him on the bottom of the ballot. But, still. Which list do you believe? That’s why I use the consensus of the ordinals as my starting point. This year, I only made one change to the consensus list: I switched Thomas and Sandberg, who were ranked 2nd and 3rd by consensus, with totals of ten and 11 consensus points. That, of course, is nothing. Anyway, without further ado here’s the list, for tabulation purposes:

1. Barry Bonds
2. Ryne Sandberg
3. Frank Thomas
4. Kirby Puckett
5. Roberto Alomar
6. Mark McGwire
7. Darren Daulton
8. Greg Maddux
9. Gary Sheffield
10. Carlos Baerga
11. Andy Van Slyke
12. Roger Clemens
13. Shane Mack

I do want to add that I think this is a pretty good list for 1992. If I’d tried to do analysis by myself, I’d have missed Shane Mack, but otherwise, I’d have come up with something a lot like this. I’d probably have switched Clemens and Baerga, leaving Van Slyke in the middle. – Brock Hanke
   14. EricC Posted: May 02, 2016 at 02:57 PM (#5210270)
1992 MMP ballot

1. Barry Bonds. Best ML hitter.
2. Darren Daulton. I tend to rate catchers high- 4th in NL in OPS+ and 1st in RBI while leading NL in games caught.
3. Roger Clemens;
4. Greg Maddux. Top ML pitchers. I think that the AL may have been the stronger league in both hitting and pitching, thus Clemens comes out on top.
5. Frank Thomas. 3rd in ML OPS+ to McGwire, but much more playing time.
6. Barry Larkin. Top ML SS.
7. Roberto Alomar;
8. Ryne Sandberg. Top ML 2B-men. Alomar on top may come as a surprise and is due in part to rating the AL as the stronger league.
9. Mike Mussina. 3rd-best ML pitcher.
10. Mark McGwire.
11. Tim Raines. No obvious reason why he comes out so high in my system; just good all-around.
12. Kirby Puckett. Top ML CF.
13. Robin Ventura. Top ML 3B.
   15. ThickieDon Posted: May 03, 2016 at 09:03 AM (#5210821)
Nothing wrong with a vote for Tim Raines. He was right behind Henderson and Lofton for me. Puckett was in there, too.

A solid end to an amazing career - he played pretty well in '93, and was useful for another half dozen years, but 1992 was his last outstanding season.
   16. Michael J. Binkley's anxiety closet Posted: May 03, 2016 at 01:02 PM (#5211127)
1992 MMP Final ballot - same as prelim:

1. Barry Bonds
2. Greg Maddux - NL MMPitcher
3. Gary Sheffield
4. Ryne Sandberg
5. Roger Clemens - AL MMP
6. Frank Thomas - AL MMPosition Player
7. Barry Larkin
8. Mike Mussina
9. Andy Van Slyke
10. Mark McGwire
11. Rickey Henderson
12. Kevin Appier
13. Edgar Martinez

14-20: Larry Walker, Carlos Baerga, Roberto Alomar, Kirby Puckett, Robin Ventura, Tim Raines, Shane Mack.

22. Darren Daulton. I use BP's defensive numbers for catchers in the PBP era. And BP hates Daulton's defense in general (1993 will be the exception). Had he been average on defense, Daulton would be 9th on my ballot, but BP has him costing almost 13 runs defensively, dropping him down here.
   17. Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handle Posted: May 04, 2016 at 12:11 AM (#5211907)
No postseason credit but some small credit for playing for a Division-contender
1. Bonds
2. Maddux
3. Sandberg
4. F Thomas
5. Daulton
6. Puckett
7. Sheffield
8. R Alomar
9. Mussina
10.Clemens
11.McGwire
12.E Martinez
13.Baerga
Comments (which include a mocking of Jack Morris) are included in the discussion thread
   18. DL from MN Posted: May 04, 2016 at 02:16 PM (#5212497)
Voted recently but not in 1992

Moeball
Yardape
Kiko Sakata
lieiam
   19. DL from MN Posted: May 04, 2016 at 05:10 PM (#5212790)
Ballot is closed

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