Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Hall of Merit > Discussion
Hall of Merit
— A Look at Baseball's All-Time Best

Tuesday, May 30, 2017

Most Meritorious Player: 2004 Ballot

For 2004 each voter should rank the top 15 players from all leagues combined.

Balloting is scheduled to close at 4pm EDT on 7 June 2017.

Anyone can vote, even if you do not normally participate in Hall of Merit discussions. If you have never participated in an MMP election, just post a preliminary ballot in the discussion thread by 6 June 2017.

For detailed rules see one of our previous ballots.

DL from MN Posted: May 30, 2017 at 09:58 AM | 11 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Related News:

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. DL from MN Posted: May 30, 2017 at 01:17 PM (#5465358)

2004 Prelim

1) Barry Bonds - back at the top, nearly 5 batting wins ahead of Pujols
2) Johan Santana - best pitching season since Randy Johnson 2000
3) Scott Rolen - better defense than Beltre, best in the league?
4) Adrian Beltre - very good defense
5) Randy Johnson - best Randy Johnson season since 2001
6) Albert Pujols - 2nd best bat, postseason bonus
7) Jim Edmonds - 3rd best bat, postseason bonus
8) JD Drew
9) Curt Schilling - postseason helps him but didn't change his ranking
10) Roger Clemens - postseason bonus
11) Alex Rodriguez - postseason bonus
12) Ben Sheets
13) Carlos Zambrano - decent hitter
14) Mark Loretta
15) Carlos Beltran - postseason heroics get him the last slot on ballot

16-20) Livan Hernandez, Todd Helton, Bobby Abreu, Jason Schmidt, Miguel Tejada
21-27) Carl Pavano, Brad Radke, Brian Giles, Ichiro Suzuki, Oliver Perez, Melvin Mora, Jake Peavy
   2. ThickieDon Posted: May 31, 2017 at 10:32 AM (#5465992)
1. Barry Bonds
2. Adrian Beltre - easy MVP in any other season where Bonds doesn't have a .609 OBP

3. Albert Pujols - post-season heroics lift him up
4. Scott Rolen - disappeared in post-season

5. J.D. Drew
6. Todd Helton
7. Jim Edmonds
8. Ichiro - best player in AL
9. Randy Johnson - best pitcher in MLB
10. Johan Santana - best pitcher in AL; pitched well in division series

11. A-Rod - put up a not widely discussed .320/.414/.600 post-season line despite Yanks' epic choke (by comparison, Mr. Clutch Derek Jeter hit .200/.333./.233 in the ALCS)
12. Carlos Beltran - huge in post-season, gets solid bump; good all-around season regardless
13. Lance Berkman - big postseason
14. Miguel Tejada
15. Melvin Mora

Vlad Guerrero and Ben Sheets were my last cuts. Tough year!
   3. bjhanke Posted: May 31, 2017 at 04:25 PM (#5466367)
Here's Brock Hanke's ballot for 2004. Mostly, it's the normal stuff - I think that WAR overrates pitchers and such. Because there is a call for the best pitcher in each league, I have Randy Johnson ranked 17th (among players, not just pitchers), while Johan Santana is on the ballot. Carlos Beltran finished in a tie for 15th in my normal system, but due to DL's outstanding postseason listings, I moved him up the line and left Lance Berkman (who was tied with Carlos) off the ballot, between Miguel Tejada and The Unit.

1. Barry Bonds
2. Adrian Beltre
3. Scott Rolen
4. Albert Pujols
5. J. D. Drew
6. Jim Edmonds
7. Todd Helton
8. Ichiro Suzuki
9. ARod
10. Carlos Beltran
11. Mark Loretta
12. Johan Santana
13. Melvin Mora
14. Bobby Abreu
15. Miguel Tejada
   4. EricC Posted: June 01, 2017 at 03:46 PM (#5467187)
2004 MMP ballot.


1. Barry Bonds. Yeah, OK.
2. Johan Santana. Top pitcher, by far.
3. Albert Pujols. Once again the NL bridesmaid to Bonds.
4. Mark Loretta. Top 2B, having a career year.
5. Scott Rolen. Top 3B, in spite of 20 games missed.
6. Adrian Beltre. Good year for 3B.
7. Jim Edmonds. Top CF.
8. Randy Johnson. Top NL pitcher.
9. Alex Rodriguez. See Beltre.
10. Curt Schilling. Regular season ERA 3.26, Postseason ERA 3.57, so no playoff bonus.
11. Gary Sheffield. My system's quirky choice of the year as top RF- sorry, Ichiro.
12. Miguel Tejada. Top SS.
13. J.D. Drew. Top NL RF.
14. Hideki Matsui and
15. David Ortiz. Seems to be the year where "one-dimensional" sluggers with decent playing
time on playoff teams are doing well in my system, in spite of the low WAR component in their
ratings.
   5. MrC. Posted: June 01, 2017 at 05:08 PM (#5467315)
2004 ballot

WAR framework with fewer replacement runs than normal. Pitcher batting and post season adjustment (adj+ or adj-)

1 Barry Bonds 11.72 WARR Amazing
2. Johan Santana 8.49 WARR adj+
3 Scott Rolen 8.46 WARR
4 Todd Helton 8.33 WARR
5 Albert Pujols 8.10 adj+
6 Jim Edmonds 7.54 WARR
7 Randy Johnson 7.42 WARR
8 Miguel Tejada 7.4 WARR
9 Adrian Beltre 7.4 WARR
10 Curt Schilling 7.19 adj+
11 Mark Loretta 6.74 WARR
12 Mark Texiera 6.56 WARR
13 Bobby Abreu 6.34 WARR
14 Livan Hernadez 6.00 WARR
15 Johnny Damon 5.85 WARR+

rest of the top 20
JD Drew
Carlos Zambrano
Brad Radke
Ichiro Suzuki
Roger Clemens

   6. Chris Fluit Posted: June 02, 2017 at 11:05 AM (#5467791)
2004 Ballot

1. Barry Bonds, LF, San Francisco Giants: lapping the field again with 263 OPS+, 90 points better than 2nd
2. Johan Santana, P, Minnesota Twins: 182 ERA+ is 34 points better than 2nd place; 228 IP is 2nd in AL
3. Adrian Beltre, 3B, Los Angeles Dodgers: a breakout campaign with 163 OPS+ and +22 fielding
4. Todd Helton, 1B, Colorado Rockies: better defense (+12 fielding) keeps him ahead of Pujols
5. Ichiro Suzuki, RF, Seattle Mariners: an all-around excellent season with 130 OPS+, 132 RC, +4 baserunning and +30 fielding
6. Ivan Rodriguez, C, Detroit Tigers: his new team had to have been pleased with a top ten OPS+ from their new catcher
7. Albert Pujols, 1B, St. Louis Cardinals: 173 OPS+ and +7 fielding
8. Randy Johnson, P, Arizona Diamondbacks: leads the senior circuit with 176 ERA+ and 245 IP
9. Scott Rolen, 3B, St. Louis Cardinals: 158 OPS+ and +30 fielding
10. Miguel Tejada, SS, Oakland Athletics: 131 OPS+ and +5 fielding from short
11. Melvin Mora, 3B, Baltimore Orioles: 155 OPS+ is 3rd in AL
12. Curt Schilling, P, Boston Red Sox: 2nd in AL with 148 ERA+
13. Jim Edmonds, CF, St. Louis Cardinals: the third redbird to make the ballot thanks to a 171 OPS+
14. Vladimir Guerrero, RF, Anaheim Angels: 157 OPS+ is 2nd in the AL; 140 RC is 1st
15. Ben Sheets, P, Milwaukee Brewers: a career year with 162 ERA+ in 237 IP

16. Mark Buehrle, P, Chicago White Sox
17. J.D. Drew, RF, Atlanta Braves
18. Travis Hafner, DH, Cleveland Indians
19. David Ortiz, DH, Boston Red Sox
20. Brad Radke, P, Minnesota Twins
   7. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: June 04, 2017 at 04:53 PM (#5468650)
Official 2004 MMP Ballot (no postseason bonuses):

1) Barry Bonds: Best ML player and left fielder - almost twice the player of #2!
2) Adrian Beltre: Best ML third baseman.
3) Jim Edmonds: Best ML center fielder.
4) Albert Pujols: Best ML first baseman.
5) Mark Loretta: Best ML second baseman.
6) Todd Helton
7) J.D. Drew: Best ML right fielder.
8) Scott Rolen
9) Johan Santana: Best ML player and pitcher - weak year for the AL.
10) Carlos Beltran
11) Lance Berkman: Would have been the best AL position player had he played his entire season in that league.
12) Melvin Mora: Best AL position player and third baseman.
13) Miguel Tejada: Best ML shortstop.
14) Alex Rodriguez: Best AL third baseman who should have playing short instead.
15) Randy Johnson: Best NL pitcher.
   8. caiman Posted: June 05, 2017 at 05:08 PM (#5469257)
Here's my top RPA run production, above the median:

1. Barry Bonds 85.93 runs
2. J.D. Drew 49.87 runs
3. Jim Edmonds 49.59 runs
4. Albert Pujols 48.58 runs
5. Todd Helton 48.37 runs
6. Bobby Abreu 47.11 runs
7. Lance Berkman 42.11 runs
8. Randy Johnson 41.65 runs
9. Adam Dunn 40.14 runs
10. Scott Rolen 39.51 runs
11. Johan Santana 36.03 runs
12. Adrian Beltre 34.40
13. Carlos Beltran 34.13 runs
14. Travis Hafner 31.46 runs
15. Melvin Mora 30.00 runs
16. Hideki Matsui 29.48 runs
17. Manny Ramirez 27.70 runs
18. Gary Sheffield 27.47 runs
19. Alex Rodriguez 26.78 runs
20. David Ortiz 26.67 runs
   9. Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handle Posted: June 07, 2017 at 11:03 AM (#5470672)
2004 ballot-no postseason credit but some small credit for playing for a Division-contender

1. Barry Bonds-the rare times he was pitched to, he batted .362 w/45 HRs in 373 ABs
2. Beltre--a fabulous outlier season until he finally rediscovered this potential in Boston in 2010, his career makes more sense backwards since his best seasons have been in his 30s
3. Pujols--the best of an excellent Cards team
4. Rolen--extremely close to Pujols
5. Santana--top pitcher, top AL player in a weak year for Junior circuit
6. Edmonds
7. Randy Johnson--easy season to forget, last year of amazing run 10 yr run. 16-14 record for 51 win DBacks. Not far behind Johan for top pitcher. Shaves mustache and loses power in NY
8. Tejeda--150 RBIs no matter how you shake it is impressive
9. Suzuki--passes Sisler's hit record and bats .372. Bonds hit .362 with much more power
10.Schilling--3.26 gets him distant 2nd ERA
11.Drew--best player for yearly contending Braves
12.Alex Rodriguez
13.Helton
14.Beltran--stolen base percentage!
15.Vlad Guerrero

Honorable mention: Abreu, Clemens, Schmidt, Berkman, M Rivera, Mora, Ortiz
   10. Michael J. Binkley's anxiety closet Posted: June 07, 2017 at 02:07 PM (#5470871)
2004 MMP Final Ballot:

1. Barry Bonds (31.68)
2. Adrian Beltre (21.28)
3. Scott Rolen (21.27)
4. Albert Pujols (17.96)
5. Jim Edmonds (17.86)
6. Randy Johnson (17.27) - MMPitcher
7. Johan Santana (17.15) - AL MMPitcher
8. J.D. Drew (17.02)
9. Todd Helton (15.49)
10. Ichiro Suzuki (14.63) - AL MMPosition Player
11. Curt Schilling (14.21)
12. Ben Sheets (13.76)
13. Miguel Tejada (12.90)
14. Alex Rodriguez (11.50)
15. Carlos Beltran (11.34)

16-25. Carlos Zambrano, Jason Schmidt, Vladimir Guerrero, Melvin Mora, Bobby Abreu, Mark Loretta, Lance Berkman, Roger Clemens, Carl Pavano, Oliver Perez.
   11. DL from MN Posted: June 07, 2017 at 04:03 PM (#5470983)
Ballot is closed

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Randy Jones
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Syndicate

Page rendered in 0.1942 seconds
42 querie(s) executed