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Hall of Merit
— A Look at Baseball's All-Time Best

Monday, September 29, 2008

Ranking the Hall of Merit by Position: Right Fielders Ballot

These are the Hall of Merit right fielders to be voted on (in alphabetical order):

Hank Aaron
Roberto Clemente
Sam Crawford
Dwight Evans
Elmer Flick
Tony Gwynn
Harry Heilmann
Joe Jackson
Reggie Jackson
Al Kaline
Willie Keeler
King Kelly
Mel Ott
Frank Robinson
Pete Rose
Babe Ruth
Enos Slaughter
Sam Thompson
Paul Waner
Dave Winfield

The election will end October 12 at 8 PM EDT.

John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: September 29, 2008 at 04:59 PM | 111 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   101. Devin has a deep burning passion for fuzzy socks Posted: October 20, 2008 at 12:06 AM (#2988172)
Of course, after taking a closer look at my 1929 ballot, if I were re-doing it now, I think Thompson would come in 12th instead of 14th, so never mind.
   102. Howie Menckel Posted: October 20, 2008 at 12:22 AM (#2988219)
Deadline Monday 8 pm for any stragglers..
   103. David Concepcion de la Desviacion Estandar (Dan R) Posted: October 20, 2008 at 01:33 PM (#2989848)
1. Ruth
2. Aaron
3. Ott
4. F. Robinson
5. Waner
6. Rose
7. Kaline
8. Crawford
9. Reggie
10. Gwynn
11. Clemente
12. Jackson
13. Kelly
14. Heilmann
15. Flick
16. Keeler
17. Evans
18. Slaughter
19. Winfield
20. Thompson
   104. Paul Wendt Posted: October 20, 2008 at 03:47 PM (#2989994)
Brock #94
20. ELMER FLICK
Only about ten years of any value, which is about 4 fewer than Thompson has. A margin of only 3 in OPS+ can't make up that difference.


I will lose my reputation for insight if I do much more counting but which 14 seasons do you have in mind?


EricC #95
20. Sam Thompson Probably in the HoF due to classical stats, but his eyeballed classical stats don't even look that impressive, given his relatively small number of career games played (in context). Win Shares is particularly harsh on him for reasons that I've never fully understood, but, then, why isn't it so harsh on his OF teammates Hamilton and Delahanty?

Which seasons do you have in mind?


Devin McCullen #100
8. Reggie Jackson. My favorite player as a little kid (before I switched to the Mets), a great slugger who made life more difficult for himself than it needed to be.

That sounds like a switch from the Yankees to the Mets, taking for granted that a favorite player is on a favorite team. If so then you missed Reggie at his best. --including the '73 Series against the Mets. Sports Illustrated put him on the cover as "SuperDuperStar"; if I'm not mistaken that was during the '73 season and it is one of the famous photos.
   105. Devin has a deep burning passion for fuzzy socks Posted: October 20, 2008 at 06:43 PM (#2990201)
I was a little young for that, Paul. Born in 1971. I got into the Yankees in 1978, I think, but a couple of years later I switched to the Mets, mostly because they were my mom's team. Although Reggie was probably still my favorite player until he left the Yankees. My cousin still gives me a hard time about going to Bat Day and making her switch the Reggie bat she got for my Roy White.
   106. OCF Posted: October 20, 2008 at 09:49 PM (#2990424)
I'm old enough that I associate Reggie with Oakland, and I remember the light-tower shot he hit in an All-Star game in Detroit. What year was that again?
   107. Howie Menckel Posted: October 20, 2008 at 10:26 PM (#2990455)
Reggie All-Star Homer, 1971. I remember it.

Superduperstar cover, 1974.
I had all the SI covers on my basement wall from about 1973 to 1978 at one point....
   108. Howie Menckel Posted: October 20, 2008 at 10:26 PM (#2990456)
gah
can we delete that link, if it will screw things up?
   109. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: October 20, 2008 at 10:28 PM (#2990461)
I was a little young for that, Paul.


Unfortunately, I wasn't, Devin. :-(
   110. Joey Numbaz (Scruff) Posted: October 20, 2008 at 11:44 PM (#2990514)
Just in the nick of time . . .

The number in parenthesis is my Pennants Added number, adjusted for military service (or lack therof), which is based on DanR's WARP ratings.

1. Babe Ruth - (2.70) (1919-21, 1923-24, 1926-28, 1931 Rosenheck MVP) - I also give him .377 Pennants Added as a pitcher (not included in the first number).

2. Hank Aaron - (2.16) (1961, 1963, 1968 Rosenheck MVP) - People think of him as kind of peakless, but that's just because he was so great for so long. Could have won 3 MVPs.

3. Mel Ott - (1.82) - Probably could have pulled off a career as a 3B.

4. Frank Robinson - (1.65) (1966 Rosenheck MVP) - Like Aaron, seems to be underrated (as a manager too).

5. Paul Waner - (1.27) (1926 Rosenheck MVP) - Leader of the second pack really these 4 (Waner, Kaline, Rose, Crawford) could be in any order.

6. Al Kaline - (1.26) - Solid long career type, but also finished 2nd or 3rd in MVP vote 3x (1955, 1956, 1963).

7. Pete Rose - (1.25) - He was a better player than a lot of people think. Had 7 seasons of 5.0 DanR WARP or better (the equivalent of Lance Berkman 2004), and played forever.

8. Sam Crawford - (1.24) - The all-time triples leader, who played in era when triples were a very important power stat. Also won 2 HR titles and was top 10 in the league in slugging 14x.

9. Reggie Jackson - (1.16) - A little surprised he ranked this low, but still a superstar. I haven't given him any extra credit for October. For one, as good as he was in the World Series, he was just as bad in the LCS (career .227/.298/.380 in 181 PA).

10. Tony Gwynn - (1.15) (1987 Rosenheck MVP) - Funny that a player that was about as opposite as Reggie ends up with pretty much exactly the same value.

11. King Kelly - Half catcher, half RF, 138 career OPS+ in a pretty long career (especially considering the catching.

12. Roberto Clemente - (1.09) - I think of him as Vlad Guerrero with less power, a heckuva player.

13. Harry Heilmann - (1.05) - One of the top power hitters of his generation.

14. Dwight Evans - (1.02) (1981 Rosenheck MVP ) - Funny - a no-peak guy who should have won an MVP Award. Long solid career, classic career-value HoMer. A travesty that Jim Rice will go into the Hall of Fame while Evans will not.

15. Enos Slaughter - (1.13 Dan's old system; .99 Dan's new system) (1942 Rosenheck MVP) - Taking Dan's new defensive calcs into account here. Includes war credit.

16. Dave Winfield - (.98) - Not many people would have thought Evans would rank ahead of them when they were active, would they? But Evans was a much better fielder and that makes for Winfield's longer career and very slightly better hitting.

17. Willie Keeler - (.99) - People think he had no power, but his career ISO of .074 doesn't look so bad when you realize the league ISO was just .088. And he hit 61 points above park adjusted league averages.

18. Elmer Flick - (.98) (1905 Rosenheck MVP) - Great player when on the field but his career was very, very short.

19. Joe Jackson - (1.04) - Any deduction at all for 1919-20 (his actions impacted the team on the field) drops him below the tight pack between Heilman/Flick. I don't really see any reason to give him the benefit of the doubt.

20. Sam Thompson - Clearly the worst player here. He could hit, but his career was short and his defensive value was minimal.
   111. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: October 21, 2008 at 12:00 AM (#2990520)
The election is now (finally!) over. Results will be posted in two hours.
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