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Hall of Merit
— A Look at Baseball's All-Time Best

Sunday, July 29, 2007

Ryne Sandberg

Eligible in 2003.

John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: July 29, 2007 at 02:25 PM | 20 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   1. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: July 29, 2007 at 02:35 PM (#2460151)
The greatest second baseman of the Eighties and the best career Cubs keystone sacker in their history.
   2. John DiFool2 Posted: July 29, 2007 at 02:40 PM (#2460158)
My favorite 80's player, came out of nowhere in 1984 with 74 extra base hits. Yeah his ballpark helped him some, and he didn't walk quite as much as you would like, but only about 5 HoF 2B are clearly better. Wonder if he would have aged more gracefully if it weren't for his brief retirement (c.f. Home Run Baker). Defensively he was about everything you would want except a little slow on the DP.
   3. Dr. Chaleeko Posted: July 29, 2007 at 03:04 PM (#2460175)
I'm so glad the Phils got rid of him. Ivan DeJesus was the very salve for their open sore at SS.
   4. OCF Posted: July 29, 2007 at 03:15 PM (#2460186)
He's in, of course. But was he really better than Whitaker? I suppose so, once you allow for Whitaker being partially platooned. But it's closer than I would have thought.
   5. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: July 29, 2007 at 03:17 PM (#2460190)
But it's closer than I would have thought.


I agree. Not many people thought so at the time, though.
   6. 47YOUNEVERKNOW47 Posted: July 29, 2007 at 07:48 PM (#2460732)
Had anybody outside of Chicago even heard of him before his late-inning heroics vs. Sutter and the Cardinals on that Saturday afternoon game of the week on 6/23/84?

They never stopped talking about him after that.
   7. Howie Menckel Posted: July 30, 2007 at 01:58 AM (#2461066)
Traded after his 1981 debut with the Phillies.
A year later, Julio Franco also debuted with the Phillies.

Franco is a year older than Sandberg - but he's older than today's inductees Cal Ripken and Tony Gwynn.
   8. OCF Posted: July 31, 2007 at 12:02 AM (#2462204)
The greatest second baseman of the Eighties and the best career Cubs keystone sacker in their history.

Interesting use of the qualifying word "career." For peak, what about Johnny Evers?
   9. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: July 31, 2007 at 12:40 AM (#2462264)
Interesting use of the qualifying word "career." For peak, what about Johnny Evers?


That's why I used "career" instead of "peak," OCF. :-)

Hornsby has something to say about it, too (though injuries hurt him in that department).
   10. David Concepcion de la Desviacion Estandar (Dan R) Posted: July 31, 2007 at 12:53 AM (#2462282)
Ryno is usually thought of as an 80's player, but it's his early-'90's body of work that stands out the most to me. Sure, he deserved the MVP, and his '85 was a terrific season too, but those were the only two years where I'd really consider him an All-Star until '89. That's when he busts out with a legit HoM peak, and a consecutive one, no less--four straight years playing virtually every day with best-at-position hitting, plus baserunning, and Gold Glove defense in difficult-to-dominate leagues. Interestingly, the 40-HR outburst in '90 doesn't show up nearly as well in my system as the follow-up seasons, particularly 1992 which looks to me like his best year both offensively and defensively. He was good enough to win an MVP the vast majority of years in 1992 (only that Barry guy would beg to differ). All told, a nudge above Murray and the best backloggers, and probably #2 on my 2003 ballot (McGraw comfortably outdistances him for me). A final note--according to James Click's EqBR stat, Ryno is one of the greatest non-SB baserunners of the Retrosheet era.
   11. Dr. Chaleeko Posted: July 31, 2007 at 01:43 AM (#2462331)
Shows up in my Keltner system as t-10th best 2B. A smidge behind Grich, tied with Robbie Alomar, a nose in front of Frisch.
   12. David Concepcion de la Desviacion Estandar (Dan R) Posted: July 31, 2007 at 01:51 AM (#2462338)
My post-1893 major league 2B rankings (before a timeline adjustment) are:

1. Collins
2. Lajoie
3. Morgan
4. Gehringer
5. Grich
6. Frisch
7. Carew
8. Jackie Robinson (Negro League and minor league credit get him past Carew and Frisch, I dunno about Grich and Gehringer, but they might)
9. Whitaker
10. Sandberg
11. Doerr
12. Biggio
13. Herman
14. Alomar
15. Gordon
16. Randolph
   13. Dr. Chaleeko Posted: July 31, 2007 at 01:54 AM (#2462344)
Where's Frank Grant go, Dan?
   14. AJMcCringleberry Posted: July 31, 2007 at 01:58 AM (#2462351)
A smidge behind Grich, tied with Robbie Alomar, a nose in front of Frisch.

Heh, I have him a smidge behind Frisch and a nose in front of Grich.
   15. David Concepcion de la Desviacion Estandar (Dan R) Posted: July 31, 2007 at 02:08 AM (#2462364)
Was Frank Grant a major league 2B? Read the statement above the list.
   16. Juan V Posted: July 31, 2007 at 02:20 AM (#2462378)
Wither Rajah?
   17. David Concepcion de la Desviacion Estandar (Dan R) Posted: July 31, 2007 at 02:33 AM (#2462405)
HAHAHAH Hornsby is #1 of course!! I just forgot to look that high up on my list! Hornsby is #8 at ANY position. Put him on top and bump everyone else down one. I'm an idiot.
   18. Howie Menckel Posted: August 16, 2007 at 07:51 PM (#2487748)
Bump for this being his ballot week..
   19. David Concepcion de la Desviacion Estandar (Dan R) Posted: February 19, 2009 at 04:13 PM (#3081086)
Because this skeptical reader of my NYT column was asking questions about Sandberg as well, here is an updated Ryno using the new methodology (and without the 2.5% stdev contraction I've been applying to 1987-2005 guys).

Year SFrac BWAA BRWAA FWAA Replc WARP1 LgAdj WARP2
1982  1.00 
-0.1   0.6  1.3  -1.5   3.3 0.985   3.3
1983  1.02 
-0.9   0.0  2.7  -2.0   3.9 1.004   3.9
1984  1.03  3.9   0.0  0.9  
-1.9   6.6 0.992   6.6
1985  0.99  3.2   0.9 
-0.1  -1.7   5.7 0.989   5.7
1986  1.00  0.5     
-0.1  1.6  -1.7   3.7 1.001   3.7
1987  0.86  1.3   0.3 
-1.4  -1.4   1.6 1.007   1.6
1988  1.01  1.1  
-0.1 -0.1  -1.9   2.8 0.989   2.8
1989  0.99  3.5   0.0 
-0.4  -1.6   4.7 1.004   4.7
1990  1.00  4.2   0.3  0.2  
-1.6   6.4 0.998   6.4
1991  1.02  4.4   0.1  1.5  
-1.6   7.6 0.998   7.6
1992  1.02  4.9   0.2  2.2  
-1.7   8.9 0.994   8.8
1993  0.74  1.1   0.3  0.4  
-1.3   3.0 0.931   2.8
1994  0.51 
-0.7  -0.1  1.2  -1.0   1.3 0.952   1.2
1996  0.90  0.2   0.0  1.0  
-1.6   2.7 0.960   2.6
1997  0.70 
-0.8   0.4  0.8  -1.2   1.5 0.968   1.5
TOTL 13.80 25.7   2.8 11.8 
-23.7  63.7 0.990  63.1
AVRG  1.00  1.9   0.2  0.9  
-1.7   4.6 0.990   4.6 


3-year peak: 23.0
7-year prime: 43.7
Career: 63.1
Salary: $177,114,532
   20. David Concepcion de la Desviacion Estandar (Dan R) Posted: February 19, 2009 at 04:15 PM (#3081087)
Whoa, formatting disaster, trying again:

Year SFrac BWAA BRWAA FWAA Replc WARP1 LgAdj WARP2
1982  1.00 
-0.1   0.6  1.3  -1.5   3.3 0.985   3.3
1983  1.02 
-0.9   0.0  2.7  -2.0   3.9 1.004   3.9
1984  1.03  3.9   0.0  0.9  
-1.9   6.6 0.992   6.6
1985  0.99  3.2   0.9 
-0.1  -1.7   5.7 0.989   5.7
1986  1.00  0.5  
-0.1  1.6  -1.7   3.7 1.001   3.7
1987  0.86  1.3   0.3 
-1.4  -1.4   1.6 1.007   1.6
1988  1.01  1.1  
-0.1 -0.1  -1.9   2.8 0.989   2.8
1989  0.99  3.5   0.0 
-0.4  -1.6   4.7 1.004   4.7
1990  1.00  4.2   0.3  0.2  
-1.6   6.4 0.998   6.4
1991  1.02  4.4   0.1  1.5  
-1.6   7.6 0.998   7.6
1992  1.02  4.9   0.2  2.2  
-1.7   8.9 0.994   8.8
1993  0.74  1.1   0.3  0.4  
-1.3   3.0 0.931   2.8
1994  0.51 
-0.7  -0.1  1.2  -1.0   1.3 0.952   1.2
1996  0.90  0.2   0.0  1.0  
-1.6   2.7 0.960   2.6
1997  0.70 
-0.8   0.4  0.8  -1.2   1.5 0.968   1.5
TOTL 13.80 25.7   2.8 11.8 
-23.7  63.7 0.990  63.1
AVRG  1.00  1.9   0.2  0.9  
-1.7   4.6 0.990   4.6 

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