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Hall of Merit
— A Look at Baseball's All-Time Best

Monday, September 06, 2004

Selected 19th Century Candidates

Here are some players that the electorate felt needed further discussion:

Cap Anson (elected in 1903)

Ross Barnes (elected in 1898)

Jake Beckley (elected in 1998)

Charlie Bennett (elected in 1921)

Tommy Bond

Dan Brouthers (elected in 1902)

Pete Browning (see Harry Stovey) (elected in 2005)

Jesse Burkett (elected in 1912)

Fred Carroll

Bob Caruthers (elected in 1930) (see also Jim Whitney)

Cupid Childs (elected in 1988)

John Clapp

John Clarkson (elected in 1900)

Jimmy Collins (elected in 1921)

Roger Connor (elected in 1903)

Lave Cross (see John McGraw)

Bill Dahlen (elected in 1915)

George Davis (elected in 1915)

Ed Delahanty (elected in 1909)

Hugh Duffy (see George Van Haltren)

Fred Dunlap

Buck Ewing (elected in 1902)

Pud Galvin and Charlie Radbourn (elected in 1910)

Jack Glasscock (elected in 1904)

George Gore (elected in 1898)

Mike Griffin (see Sam Thompson)

Clark Griffith (elected in 1971)

Billy Hamilton (elected in 1907)

Paul Hines (elected in 1898)

Hughie Jennings (elected in 1960)

Charley Jones and Lip Pike (Jones elected in 2003)

Tim Keefe (elected in 1901)

Joe Kelley (elected in 1919)

King Kelly (elected in 1899)

Herman Long

Denny Lyons

Jim McCormick (see Jim Whitney)

John McGraw, Ed Williamson, Lave Cross, Billy Nash and Levi Meyerle (elected in 2009)

Bid McPhee and Hardy Richardson (elected in 1913)

Cal McVey (elected in 1914) (see Joe Start)

Levi Meyerle (see John McGraw)

Billy Nash (see John McGraw)

Kid Nichols (elected in 1911)

Jim O’Rourke (elected in 1899)

Dickey Pearce (elected in 1931)

Lip Pike (elected in 1940) (see Charley Jones)

Charlie Radbourn (elected in 1905) (see Pud Galvin)

Hardy Richardson (elected in 1905) (see Bid McPhee)

Amos Rusie (elected in 1904)

Jimmy Ryan (see George Van Haltren)

Elmer Smith

Al Spalding (elected in 1906)

Joe Start and Cal McVey (elected in 1912)

Harry Stovey and Pete Browning (Stovey elected in 1916)

Ezra Sutton (elected in 1908)

Sam Thompson, Mike Tiernan and Mike Griffin (Thompson elected in 1929)

Mike Tiernan (see Sam Thompson)

George Van Haltren, Hugh Duffy and Jimmy Ryan

John Ward (elected in 1900)

Mickey Welch

Deacon White (elected in 1898)

Jim Whitney and Jim McCormick

Ed Williamson (see John McGraw)

George Wright (elected in 1899)

Tom York

Cy Young (elected in 1917)

John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: September 06, 2004 at 12:55 AM | 17 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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Reader Comments and Retorts

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   1. yest Posted: September 06, 2004 at 03:21 AM (#838540)
John can you please add a Dickey Pierce thread.
   2. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: September 06, 2004 at 03:32 AM (#838544)
Yest, I created the Selected 19th Century Players thread as a a link for a few threads that Joe had created so we wouldn't lose track of them. Since there was never a thread created for Pearce and he has already been elected, there is no need for a Pearce thread (though it would have been a good idea when he was still eligible).
   3. Proo Posted: September 06, 2004 at 03:59 AM (#838551)
If possible, I'd like to see this used as a place to keep discussion going of other players who haven't yet been elected to keep them from dropping off the radar as the HoM moves forward. While some, like Beckley and Van Haltren, have strong enough backing to be in the forefront of the ballot for a while, some lesser-known folk with middling support like Charley Jones or Ed Williamson could easily become forgotten entirely.
   4. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: September 06, 2004 at 01:25 PM (#838600)
I think that's a good idea, John. If someone requests an eligible 19th century star to have his own thread, Joe (I don't think I'm being presumptuous here) or I will set it up.

BTW, John is our "friend of the HoM" who pointed out the Internet Archive to me, so he deserves a lot of credit, besides Jim and Google, for reconstructing the old threads.
   5. yest Posted: September 07, 2004 at 12:31 AM (#839282)
I placed this here because this looks like the best posibale spot for it.
The reason I requiested a Pearce thread is beacause I was wondering how to factor the Civil War in to his career.

Assuming Pearce was the best player from 1858-1865 (which I'm abought 85% sure is correct maybe it's Creighton or some player lost to history) is that enough to place him in the HoM (even though it to late now to change it)

First of all if I remember correctly it was due to the Civil War that baseball expanded to areas out side of Greater New York so there was just a small amount of men playing it.

Second of all weren't a large number of men off in the army to lessen the number of baseball players even more.
   6. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: September 07, 2004 at 01:20 AM (#839398)
Yest, Pearce is in the HoM. Why start another debate over him again? It's not going to change anything.

If you have an eligible player that you want a discussion page created, let me know.
   7. yest Posted: September 07, 2004 at 01:24 AM (#839408)
I'm not tryng to start a debate but depending on the answer to this quiston he might make my pHoM or not
   8. yest Posted: September 07, 2004 at 01:25 AM (#839410)
If you have an eligible player that you want a discussion page created, let me know.
Mickey Welch
   9. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: September 07, 2004 at 01:40 AM (#839440)
I'm not tryng to start a debate but depending on the answer to this quiston he might make my pHoM or not

Yest, he's a shortstop. Unless he had hit like Wagner or Lloyd (which he didn't), he won't be making your PHOM. :-)

Seriously, that's a much more reasonable request for a Dickey Pearce thread. I don't know if the electorate wants to open up that can of worms again though (I know I really don't!), but if a consensus builds for it...

Mickey Welch

Mickey Welch is an excellent choice, Yest. I'll set it up tonight.
   10. karlmagnus Posted: September 07, 2004 at 01:46 AM (#839456)
Beckley. Does he count as 19C? Also Browning and Charley Jones (people will want Pike, though he's not my fave, in which case I want Meyerle too.)

We will need to review the evidence of these guys for when a slot opens in say 1970 and we've got a whole lot of new voters who aren't up the curve on them. I assume all current voters heard all they could possibly want to hear in 1924-32, but that won't be true going forward.
   11. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: September 07, 2004 at 01:54 AM (#839478)
Beckley. Does he count as 19C?

I think he does, karlmagnus.

Let's hold it at these guys for a little bit to see if we can attract discussions for them before I create any more pages.
   12. Proo Posted: September 07, 2004 at 05:39 PM (#840758)
Maybe it would be a good idea to define what we mean by 19th century player -- is it someone who played their whole career in the 19th century (C. Jones, Williamson, Welch), someone who played the majroity of their career then (Beckley, Van Haltren, Ryan), or any part (Tommy Leach)?
   13. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: September 07, 2004 at 05:48 PM (#840774)
Maybe it would be a good idea to define what we mean by 19th century player -- is it someone who played their whole career in the 19th century (C. Jones, Williamson, Welch), someone who played the majroity of their career then (Beckley, Van Haltren, Ryan), or any part (Tommy Leach)?

Whoever played the bulk of his career in the 19th century belongs on this thread.

Of all the names that you mentioned, all would all be acceptable except Leach.

I think, for the future, that a 20th century thread should also be set up for the Leachs, Veachs, etc.
   14. yest Posted: September 08, 2004 at 02:02 AM (#842020)
John I tried posting in the Mickey Welch thread but nothing is coming on.
   15. Paul Wendt Posted: December 21, 2008 at 01:45 AM (#3034884)
The McGraw item is the usual notice and the other three revisions will match the standard usual format.

Selected 19th Century Candidates

John McGraw, Ed Williamson, Lave Cross, Billy Nash and Levi Meyerle
add "(McGraw elected in 2009)"

Pud Galvin and Charlie Radbourn (elected in 1910)

=> "(Galvin elected in 1910)"

Bid McPhee and Hardy Richardson (elected in 1913)
=> "(McPhee elected in 1913)"

Joe Start and Cal McVey (elected in 1912)
=> "(Start elected in 1912)"
   16. Bleed the Freak Posted: July 11, 2014 at 07:12 AM (#4748569)
http://www.baseballlibrary.com/columns/column.php?id=17

Interesting article, dick mcbride had a long career before the na, does he have any dickey Pearce like magic in him?
   17. Chris Fluit Posted: July 11, 2014 at 09:06 AM (#4748595)
I haven't read the linked article yet but I've previously looked into the pre-NA/NA pitchers Brainard, McBride, Zettlein, Cummings et al and the one I found to be the second best behind Spalding is the much-maligned Candy Cummings. He was a dominant hurler who rarely played for dominant teams. McBride was pretty good - he was already over the hill by the time of the NA so his stats there don't tell you much- but he also pitched for the Philadelphia Athletics who were one of the great teams of the era.

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