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Wednesday, February 22, 2006

Vic Power

Eligible in 1971.

John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: February 22, 2006 at 09:40 PM | 8 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   1. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: February 22, 2006 at 09:45 PM (#1871773)
Probably should have posted this at the start of the '70 election. A long-time lurker pointed his absence out to me.
   2. Dr. Chaleeko Posted: February 22, 2006 at 09:54 PM (#1871795)
By my reckoning he was thrice the best 1B in the AL by WS: 1955, 1958, 1959. Not saying much, though, since he led the position with 26, 22, 19 WS those years.
   3. DavidFoss Posted: February 22, 2006 at 11:24 PM (#1871903)
First, just to get this out of the way: a first basemen with a career 97 OPS+ has no place on anyone's ballot.

That said, Power is always on the short list of great fielding first basemen. So, we could use this thread for interesting discussion about whether he was indeed the greatest. He was before the age of highlight films unfortunately, so I have no idea how he attained such a lofty reputation.

Unlike many other great fielding firstbasemen, he threw right handed. That means two things. First, he had a slight handicap holding runners and turning the 3-6-3. Second, he wasn't trapped at 1B by his handedness like many other great 1B-men.
   4. The District Attorney Posted: February 02, 2015 at 01:15 PM (#4891940)
Power is always on the short list of great fielding first basemen. So, we could use this thread for interesting discussion about whether he was indeed the greatest.
Nine years later, I can report that Bill James thinks he just missed!
Rank First   Last      First Last Years GG Won Lost Pct 
1    Travis  Lee       1998  2006 10    0  18  23  .437 
2    Vic     Power     1954  1965 15    8  26  33  .434 
3    Todd    Helton    1997  2013 17    3  39  52  .430 
4    John    Olerud    1989  2005 18    3  38  51  .426 
5    Frank   McCormick 1934  1948 14    0  41  56  .426 
6    Mark    Teixeira  2003  2014 14    5  28  38  .425 
7    Stuffy  McInnis   1911  1927 17    0  60  83  .419 
8    Chick   Gandil    1910  1919 9     0  35  49  .415 
9    Steve   Garvey    1972  1987 16    5  48  68  .414 
10   Mark    Grace     1988  2003 16    4  40  57  .413 
11   Pete    O'Brien   1982  1993 12    0  27  38  .411 
12   Keith   Hernandez 1974  1990 18    11 46  67  .409 
13   Tino    Martinez  1990  2005 16    0  32  47  .406 
14   Wally   Pipp      1913  1928 15    0  52  77  .403 
15   Charlie Grimm     1918  1936 19    0  61  91  .402 
16   Adrian  Gonzalez  2004  2014 12    4  26  38  .402 
17   Albert  Pujols    2001  2014 14    2  30  45  .398 
18   Ed      Konetchy  1907  1921 16    0  61  94  .393 
19   Jim     Spencer   1968  1982 17    2  24  38  .393 
20   Joe     Adcock    1950  1966 16    0  30  47  .392 
21   Dan     McGann    1900  1908 10    0  32  50  .392 
22   Wes     Parker    1964  1972 9     6  23  36  .391 
23   Norm    Cash      1959  1974 16    0  35  55  .389 
24   George  Kelly     1915  1932 18    0  39  62  .387 
25   George  McQuinn   1936  1948 12    0  35  57  .385 
And the worst:
First  Last      First Last Won Lost WPct 
Dick   Stuart    1958  1969 10  45  .189 
Mo     Vaughn    1991  2003 11  48  .192 
Jack   Fournier  1912  1927 21  71  .227 
Hal    Chase     1905  1919 33  101 .244 
Willie McCovey   1959  1980 27  79  .254 
George Sisler    1915  1930 37  100 .267 
Kevin  Young     1992  2003 12  33  .269 
Donn   Clendenon 1962  1972 19  50  .277 
Ryan   Howard    2004  2014 15  40  .278 
Jason  Giambi    1995  2012 16  40  .280 
(Minimum 1,000 games played at 1B in both cases.)
   5. Chris Fluit Posted: February 02, 2015 at 03:23 PM (#4892090)
What does won, lost and wpct mean in those tables?
   6. vortex of dissipation Posted: February 02, 2015 at 03:39 PM (#4892104)
Interesting that Chase, who had a legendary reputation as a great fielder, is on the worst list. Of course, half the time he was trying to throw the game...
   7. AROM Posted: February 02, 2015 at 03:40 PM (#4892105)
I have always gotten Vic Power and Wes Parker mixed together. Careers only slightly overlap, but that doesn't matter since it was before my time anyway. Dinosaurs happened before Gladiator fights in the Coliseum? Who cares, never got to see either one anyway. One syllable first name, two syllable second starting with "P". Excellent glove men, hit for average in their best years but not the kind of power you expect at first. One was white and the other was black, so they can't be compared? As I said, I never saw either play anyway.

Anyway, Power being a righty makes you wonder about the Keith Hernandez question, if he had been a righty would he have been a gold glove 3B? Could he have played short?

Parker actually did play significant time at other infield positions. As a shortstop only 17 innings. At third, he played 89 games, a +3 TZ rating. His RF/9 and fielding percentage are both above average. At second he played almost a full season's worth, 139 games. -5 TZ, RF/9 a bit above average, F% a bit below. Not sure why he didn't play more at those positions, as he certainly appears capable of doing so and offense was hard to come by at those spots.

Not close to a Hall of Anything anyway, but it looks like Power deserves some credit for minor league performance. Didn't debut until age 26. He spent 3 years in AAA, the latter 2 great years, in a loaded Yankee organization before being traded to the A's.

   8. The District Attorney Posted: February 02, 2015 at 03:51 PM (#4892123)
What does won, lost and wpct mean in those tables?
Bill has added Loss Shares to his Win Shares schema. So these are the Win Shares and Loss Shares stemming from defense for first basemen.

The numbers essentially have "defensive adjustment" built in, such that even the best 1B ever is a .437 "winning percentage." On the flip side, the worst catcher ever (Frankie Hayes) is evaluated at .487 defensive winning percentage, and the best (Roy Campanella) .852. (Those numbers are in the Ernie Lombardi thread. Guess which one Schnozz is closer to!)

Interesting that Chase, who had a legendary reputation as a great fielder, is on the worst list. Of course, half the time he was trying to throw the game...
Yeah, that's pretty much what Bill concludes. I mean, I think it's pretty much what anyone has to conclude. AFAIK, every defensive system agrees Chase's stats are lousy.

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