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Jim's Lab Notes— Site News, Baseball Talk, and a Bunch of Other Stuff
Wednesday, May 30, 2012
Off-Topics, Politics, and the Redesign
FYI, in the redesign I will restrict off-topic political discussions to a new politics off-topic blog that I am setting up for the purpose. By default, members will not see these discussions in their Hot Topics until they opt-in to see them. In the interim I will restrict off-topic political discussions to a dedicated monthly thread (similar to the football, basketball, and soccer threads), which will be tagged as “politics”, marked as “OT:Politics” in the title, and which will include a disclaimer about the nature and tone of the discussion. I will also begin closing the off-topic political discussions in other threads.
In the redesign I also will be moving the sports-related off-topic threads to their own dedicated area. Like the off-topic political threads these threads will only appear in Hot Topics when members opt-in to see them. When this change takes place members will be able to submit news links to basketball, football, soccer, and golf (whichever sports that generate interest) articles, which will appear in their appropriate off-topic micro.
So, in the redesign people who wish to discuss these topics will be able to do so easily while people who wish to ignore such topics will be able to do so easily as well.
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Jim Furtado
Posted: May 30, 2012 at 12:44 PM | 1369 comment(s)
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There's nothing wrong *with the Lounge.* The Lounge is happy with the Lounge. Jim is happy with the Lounge. The problem is with the Mainland OT threads that act as a pseudo-lounge - the "Longthreaders." The Longthreaders - you, David, Ray, me, etc. - are happy with the Longthreads. Jim is not. As Jim is sort of the big dick on campus at the end of the day, the Longthreaders are going to have to live with some changes.
The Lounging of this thread is more due to some Loungers coming over to vent their frustration that the Longthreaders don't want to lose the Longthreads, because that's what the Lounge (and other forums, like the Political forum) was made for anyway. And yes, it's all gotten all kinds of meta, snake eating it's own tail stupid at this point. But there it is.
In certain ways, there is only one sabermetric conversation. The opponents call it "groupthink."
In this case, no problem at all. I was just responding to SugarBear's implication that the Lounge breathlessly awaits his every post.
There are things that I (a Lounger) dislike about the main site, but (a) I don't think the resign is a Lounge vs. Mainland issue at all and (b) it's too close to burger and beer time for me to start a debate about what the Lounge is or ought to be.
It wasn't an implication, it was explicit. Proof's right there in the Lounge (*) -- a place I literally didn't know existed until about 4 hours ago.
(*) Where the weirdo stalking continues on and worsens after the few passages I quoted. Real "nice" and "harmonious" stuff.
No, it's about self centered people who like to argue being upset that other people will have even more ways to continue to ignore their arguing.
Not to point out the obvious, but if this is true then Jim's decision to post a dedicated political thread seems like the perfect solution. No one is going to "randomly decide" to close down the old thread, and the discussion won't have to constantly reconstitute itself elsewhere.
I also assume that, within the bounds of the very limits of the TOS, acrimony won't be punished in that thread. You all can hate #### each other with your words until the cows come home.
There's nothing wrong *with the Lounge.* The Lounge is happy with the Lounge. Jim is happy with the Lounge. The problem is with the Mainland OT threads that act as a pseudo-lounge - the "Longthreaders." The Longthreaders - you, David, Ray, me, etc. - are happy with the Longthreads. Jim is not. As Jim is sort of the big dick on campus at the end of the day, the Longthreaders are going to have to live with some changes.
I can't speak for anyone but myself, but if the worst thing I have to acclimate myself to in the next few weeks is a few cosmetic changes on BTF, I'll think of that poor dog who may have wound up in Obama's stomach, and be grateful that I wasn't that dog.
----------------------------------------
In this case, no problem at all. I was just responding to SugarBear's implication that the Lounge breathlessly awaits his every post.
The only person I can imagine breathlessly awaiting my posts is my wife when she wants to get on the computer.
There are things that I (a Lounger) dislike about the main site, but (a) I don't think the resign is a Lounge vs. Mainland issue at all and (b) it's too close to burger and beer time for me to start a debate about what the Lounge is or ought to be.
Just keep that beer under 16 ounces. There may be sugar in it.
Did you guys figure out my profession yet?
Again, speaking only for myself, do you honestly think that we really care whether you choose to ignore us? Do you care if we ignore you? Do you even care whether we know how to find the lounge? Come on, get real.
EDIT: Too late, he did it.
They don't ignore us and I can't begin to fathom the cognitive dissonance that lets them tell themselves they do. Bizarre.
Wish you'd posted that before I settled into switching between the Yanks and the Celtics. Glad to see that he finished the job. First Mets no-no in 51 years.
(*) Who always seem to be jealous that they're not here. Sugarbear isn't the only mainlander to pop in to check on the Lounge and find people talking about him even though he hasn't posted in the Lounge.
EDIT: Not that this happened recently, but it has happened in the past for me.
My little man's telling me they probably do talk politics there, essentially without dissent, and that remnants of the old-line liberal circle jerk have taken shelter there.
Sometimes.
essentially without dissent,
This is completely wrong.
and that remnants of the old-line liberal circle jerk have taken shelter there.
I don't know who these people are.
You say that because you follow them and know their ebb and flow. In any given longthread there are two or three sub-conversations going on at a given time, and you know how to follow them. The Lounge has it's ebb and flow. The only thing is you don't know the syntax and you're not willing to learn it because you don't think you ought to have to. And because you don't want to have to live in a social network where you're not one of the alpha contributors with long term cred.
DIPS is the devil.
Yes, it reminds us of the specter of death, but there's more. They're cranky old men and no one likes them.
626:
People who put people on ignore don't deserve to be taken seriously. There seems to be a lot of that among those who are infuriated with the "longthreaders." As McCoy put it in a roundabout way, this is about genocide. Really, if that's your play, the only thing left is for everyone to just start squeeezzing triggers.
Well, you know, this is really the heart of the matter, IMHO. Here's what's going to happen. Jim's going to finish beta testing the new site design. He's going to roll out some of the new features he's been working on. Some people will love some of them, and others will hate some of them. People will like it, and others will ##### about losing something familiar and having to figure out something new. *MAYBE* one or two peripheral folks will fade away. But the heart of the "longthreader" community will stay. They'll figure out the new site, they'll use the bits of it that facilitate their preferred networks, and ignore the bits that don't. Ray will stay. David will stay. I'll be in and out as always. Anyone who has migrated *forums* to follow this same community of conversationalists out of ####### *USENET*, onto Primer, through the BTF migration, full flag flying into Web 3.whatever it is we're at now? Dude. We're not going anywhere. And maybe now our little corner of the yapposphere will be cordoned off, similar to but distinct from the lounges, but in a way that keeps Jason Stark from having to scroll through our belicose banter just to see if anyone is interested in his latest column. Or it might keep the guys from MLB.com who scroll through to see what links are being pushed and what stories are hot in the non-official official site of baseball on the web won't see our silly Luke Scott meanders.
But at the end of the day? We'll be wherever the forum is. As will you, and 95% of the longthreaders at large. Because much like the Loungers, we don't come for the forum. We come for the people. And all of this - this entire ####### thread - is so much ado about jack ####### nothing it could almost bring a grown man to tears. It's just so ####### absurd. Jim is changing the layout of his site. Get the #### over it.
Yes. I will say, however, subjectively, some of the designs and fonts need some real work.
For the truth.
Although I've been a member here almost since the inception, I quit participating for a few years because the threads seemed to be completely dominated by Comic Book Guys who only knew how to communicate in random snarks. That seems to be ideal that many would like to revert to. Never explain, always complain, but in tweet fashion only.
Shall I quote lounge posts?
McCoy, the Lounge has picked up a couple of newbies from this very thread,
But that has nothing to do with what I said. I didn't say the lounge doesn't like the mainland. I said the lounge posters don't like the people they consider to be "longthreaders".
Hey wow. That appears to be a thing. Did not realize that there was a section of the site where people hung out and gossiped about other people. I'm going to go back to never looking at the lounge.
How shockingly rude.
People who put people on ignore don't deserve to be taken seriously. There seems to be a lot of that among those who are infuriated with the "longthreaders." As McCoy put it in a roundabout way, this is about genocide. Really, if that's your play, the only thing left is for everyone to just start squeeezzing triggers.
You're entitled to your opinion on the Ignore thing. I have only two people on Ignore (well, one now), and honestly I can't even remember the inciting posts for either, so maybe I should go ahead and lift the other one too. But sometimes, when you're ignoring someone anyway, there's no reason not to make it official and save yourself the scrolling time. I don't think that employing timesaving measures is enough to not take someone seriously, but apparently your mileage varies.
As for the rest of your post, I'm not sure I follow it. Any claim to "genocide" is hysterical, as I'm sure you know and are using for effect. Jim wants his site to be a certain thing, and is taking steps to try to make it that thing. Some of use would also like to be that site that thing, and are happy to see him doing something. It's not a big deal.
And, really, "we" Lounginistas have already been through this, when The Lounge was moved to the forums. At first, there was much gnashing of teeth and rending of garments and pissing of pants, and within a week or two we realized everything was fine and, in many ways, a lot better. It is the community that survives, and for those who enjoy their political discussions, they too will survive whatever cosmetic changes Jim makes to his website. The only downside I see is that everyone finds it easier to find the sort of conversation they want to take part in.
Shall I quote lounge posts?
If you like.
But that has nothing to do with what I said. I didn't say the lounge doesn't like the mainland. I said the lounge posters don't like the people they consider to be "longthreaders".
Well, I for one don't dislike anybody on this site, and don't know who the "longthreaders" are I'm apparently meant (by association?) to dislike.
How shockingly rude.
To the extent anything like this happens, it's probably less than 1% of Lounge posts. Funnily enough, there's probably as often a post notifying people as to an interesting off-topic thread over here as anything.
But that brush should clearly be painting you, shouldn't it?
McCoy - some do, yes, for sure. There is nothing, however, that is unanimous in the Lounge. We bicker over everything. A great majority of the Lounge has nothing at all to say about the mainland (many are regular contributors).
I think you guys are picking nits here. There is a cabal of loungers that don't like a cabal of mainlanders. Is that true or not? Why dance around it?
If you like.
Do a search for the word "longthreader". Look at JLAC's posts from yesterday's lounge where he declare that we should all be banned. Hell, just follow Bernal or Perros around.
So what? You guys treat the lounge like it is twitter.
To go back and forth between the personal and general can only be to evade a point.
It's become evident that for many this is about purging these threads of certain types of participants, even though at this moment they neither poach nor impinge on those haters' domain.
...nothing could be further from the truth.
But you know what? None of this discussion matters at all. Let's stipulate - purely for the sake of argument - that the Lounge is entirely a secret cabal dedicated to the obliteration of the "Longthreaders" in all their forms. What, if that were the case, could we do? Would we do?
This isn't about what the Lounge wants for the Mainland, or what the Lounge doesn't want for this matter. This is about Jim wanting to encourage baseball discussion on the Mainland. I don't think he's doing this for the Lounge, or against the Lounge, or with any consideration to the Lounge at all.
I was going to say that they were picking nits again. (Is it nits or gnits?) But this sums it up quite well. I'm not making the claim that every single lounger or 100 loungers or 40 loungers hate all mainlanders or just longthreaders but it is quite obvious that there is a significant amount of very vocal loungers who do not like people that they call longthreaders and want them gone or seriously muzzled. This should be beyond dispute.
The fact that any of you think it's enjoyable to sit around complaining about people behind their backs is just bizarre. If you have a problem with what someone posts, bring it up in the thread where they post it.
It's not that it's devoted to it, it's that it happens at all.
Exactly what you did -- p!ss and moan and complain to Jim.
Wait, is THAT what y'all think happened?
Oh.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.
I do support Jim's efforts to further refine the site design to better structure this as the kind of website that he wants to run.
You guys treat the lounge like it is twitter.
Well, that's silly, but if you don't like it, that's fine, no one's asking you to.
But the real takeaway here is that The Lounge has thrived despite its "ghettoization" (ugh). The longstanding political discussions/dynamics will similarly thrive after Jim's changes, I predict.
?????????????????????????
This is true. Bernal's a freak.
I'll concede that isn't exactly accurate but would you disagree with the view that a ton of posts are twitteresque? Short, largely empty, filled with what are largely meaningless observations, and full of snark. That is not to say that every single post is like that but a ton of it is. Thus, to me anyway, it isn't really an accurate way to defend a place by saying that X is only talked about Y amount of times compared to Z total posts when Z is filled with (what comes after Z?) amount of empty calorie posts.
What, if that were the case, could we do? Would we do?
As I mentioned in my initial post "longthreaders" are unconcerned and largely unaware of the loungers. We don't view you as a threat. This isn't a threatening situation for us.*
*I say us but it should be clear that I am simply writing what is my opinion on the matter.
Yes. And every instance we point out of this, they come back like Monty Python in their version of What have the Romans done for us scene--besides, Harveys, Bernal, etc etc, who wants to get rid of you?
He means "usually stinks" Bernal. Not right at this moment.
Some of you are bad for business. The capitalist roaders amongst you should understand what that means...
I wish you wouldn't have said that, McCoy. Now some of us won't be able to sleep for a week.
How shockingly rude.
That's not an accurate, or fair, description of the lounge. There was some of that today, but it was in direct response to this thread (as this thread is doing that exact thing about the lounge).
With all that said, the entire question of whether or not to lounge isn't really germane to this discussion.
Yeah but that's the whole point. "We" don't have a case.
It's not like I view Twitter as some terrible insult. I didn't get to 16,000 Tweets through self-loathing.
This is getting ridiculous. There are probably 50 or so people who cycle through The Lounge with any regularity. So far you've named one guy (JLAC) who proposed banning. Believe me, most of us "care" as little about you do as you do us. I, for one, have very little concept of who many of you are. That's not an insult; I just haven't encountered you very frequently in the threads I tend to read and participate in. I just think you have nothing to worry about in Jim's changes, and may even grow to like the new setup more than the current one.
But we could all take that view, well, we could take the view that we could not care less.
Some of you are bad for business.
And then we could also take this view as well. Thus the problem.
That much I can believe, given the time and energy he's devoted to it. I think we all appreciate that.
Some of you are bad for business.
Hey, be like a good boy and name names.
To people's faces in the extraordinarily rare cases it happens, not like cowering, scheming little b!tches in the corner.
I didn't describe the Lounge as a place where people exclusively hang out and gossip about people behind their back. But it does happen. And not just today. I looked up my name, as well as the names of a few other people, and people are just being anonymously catty. I'm quite certain that it doesn't happen very often. That it happens at all should be embarrassing for you. It really is unspeakably rude.
Edit: I should add, in agreement with SBB (that feels dirty) that any comments made in this thread are made directly to people. Not behind their backs. I am not a 10 year old girl, so I haven't ever felt the need to do that.
Is this schtick?
I'm not entirely sure why I should be embarrassed about posts other people make, just because it's in the same forum where I make most of my posts.
No. The group has been discovered and called out for what they are. Own it.
i'll send an apology on Lounge stationery. Are you like this in all the threads Mr. Bear?
I have no idea what you're talking about, but I comfort myself with the realization that neither do you.
That it is, but OTOH if I ever found out that anyone down there ever cared enough to trash me, I think I might feel more flattered than offended. At least as long as they spelled "Jolly" without an "e".
This is still about picking nits apparently. I mean we can reduce this down to how many people have blue eyes, red hair, are of Mexican descent and are loungers but that really isn't the point. Again, you have a group of hardcore loungers that dislike very much so a group of mainlanders. As I said before this shouldn't be in dispute.
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