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Jim's Lab Notes— Site News, Baseball Talk, and a Bunch of Other Stuff
Wednesday, May 30, 2012
Off-Topics, Politics, and the Redesign
FYI, in the redesign I will restrict off-topic political discussions to a new politics off-topic blog that I am setting up for the purpose. By default, members will not see these discussions in their Hot Topics until they opt-in to see them. In the interim I will restrict off-topic political discussions to a dedicated monthly thread (similar to the football, basketball, and soccer threads), which will be tagged as “politics”, marked as “OT:Politics” in the title, and which will include a disclaimer about the nature and tone of the discussion. I will also begin closing the off-topic political discussions in other threads.
In the redesign I also will be moving the sports-related off-topic threads to their own dedicated area. Like the off-topic political threads these threads will only appear in Hot Topics when members opt-in to see them. When this change takes place members will be able to submit news links to basketball, football, soccer, and golf (whichever sports that generate interest) articles, which will appear in their appropriate off-topic micro.
So, in the redesign people who wish to discuss these topics will be able to do so easily while people who wish to ignore such topics will be able to do so easily as well.
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Jim Furtado
Posted: May 30, 2012 at 12:44 PM | 1369 comment(s)
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Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.
But seriously, though: game chatters please?
It's obvious what you've done. Andy sees it, tship sees it, and I see it. No need to run away from it.
I'm pretty comfortable following the Lounge after a couple of pages in, but I think it's very different from a typical longthread in terms of the coherency of the conversation. There aren't nearly as many long posts, because in the time it takes to type a long post, the conversation is typically already three pages away. That's neither a feature nor a bug as far as I'm concerned, but it is different.
The only reason that I don't read the Lounge regularly is because of the format. It takes me much, much longer to read, and I'm actually pretty bummed about it because I know I would enjoy both reading and participating in the conversation. It's just too much of a fight with the interface to get at the content. It's sort of like pistachios. I'm a pretty big fan, but the shells are an incredible pain in the ass, and so I rarely buy them. There's enough other stuff that I really like to eat that doesn't make me work so much. Reading the Lounge regularly would be, for me, like going on a pistachio-only diet.
I actually like the people in the Lounge (as far as I remember them) and I would guess that to the degree that any of them think about me (rarely if ever) that it would be something on the order of neutral to mildly positive. I do not think that I would find it at all inhospitable.
Well, that changes everything. Which one?
Searching the forums, your name comes up in six threads. Two are forumings of political threads, and have nothing to do with the Lounge. One is Dan venting over the reaction to his closing/foruming of one of those political threads. The other three date back to 2010, and include someone mentioning that someone else called them the anti-tshipman (whoever that is), someone mentioning a non-Lounger getting himself suspended by Dan for posting a thread called “who is the biggest douchenozzle in BTF?”, and someone saying that you seem like a nice enough guy, in reference to the basketball thread.
I can see why you would be horrified by this.
Even if so ... so what?
I literally have no idea what you are talking about. None whatsoever. What are you talking about?
Again.
You would be welcome in the Lounge. You might find the forums more comfortable if you turn off avatars and signatures, and place Bernal on Ignore (as everyone should).
Oh, the one mainlander who got the toughest #### in the Lounge was Sam H. And he dove in and joined us. That was great.
If the "longthreaders" didn't care this thread wouldn't be 8 pages long.
Actualy, yeah.
The behind the back b!tchy gossip about people who had no idea that even a place for such a thing existed, much less that the thing existed.
Real stand-up stuff. You must be very proud.
Then it's this one or this one or this one or this one or this one.
Man, if I could ever figure out how to get all you good people to tout my college football blog, I'd rule the world.
Real stand-up stuff. You must be very proud.
But ... I don't gossip about these people.
Well, the so what was what I said in my initial post but got largely ignored as the conversation went off on who likes whom. There was talk about how we should head over to the lounge and partake in conversations. It was at that point that I said what I said that started all this. Thus the so what.
Too late. I saw your behind-the-back stuff. I wouldn't have, if you hadn't alerted me to the Lounge.
Lounges aren't about debating issues. They're about yabbing with a bunch of likeminded fools over a beer or three. Different roles. Different rules. Different syntax. Same idea of a group of people who want to talk about the same things talking about things.
All posted by RJ in TO:
I'm not horrified. I think it's damn rude, and you should have been taught better.
I wasn't gossiping about you. I was asking if you were saying anything I should read. After reading the things you've written, I realize the answer was "No."
There were threats by old regulars to *quit the Lounge* if I stayed.
I'm awesome.
Just the one, I thought.
I've always appreciated your sense of humor, Andy. The problem is that political talk has pushed out baseball talk on the main site. It's not that there's no place for it, or that it'll disappear. The idea is that by creating a separate space for it people can argue to their heart's content, as well as anyone who wants to join in, without impacting the brand and its primary focus on baseball and sabermetrics. Which is why almost all of us ventured here in the first place.
The Lounge is great because if I write on politics or breastfeeding or vampirism or whatever, or make mention of Snapper's apologia for the Church, nobody coming here in search of baseball will have to wade through that. Unless they explicitly seek it out.
As Sam pointed out, we should all be thankful to Jim and Szym for the hard work that has made this an attractive place for us all, and enables us to have these off-topic conversations for free.
Relax, everybody. A good night to all.
If the "longthreaders" didn't care this thread wouldn't be 8 pages long.
The only reason I've been sticking around is that I always enjoy a good catfight. But note that my comment was directed both ways.
I turned around.
You've been caught. And it's a truly pathetic sight. Deal.
I don't even remember how this started. But I'll say that Bernal openly dislikes Nieporent, and Nieporent has been in a few times, and he has been welcome and made good posts. Fly openly dislikes Sam H., and has even claimed he'll leave The Lounge if Sam H. is welcomed, and we all love Fly's participation in The Lounge and welcomed Sam H. anyway.
Even if someone "comes over" who is disliked by some, he is welcomed, and if he likes it sticks around, and if he doesn't, doesn't. No hard feelings.
scotto - 15 April 2010 06:21 PM
796.357(GGC) - 15 April 2010 06:11 PM
Nice try. When I have something to say, I have the stones to say it directly, and have for the six or more years I've been here.
Why not?
I don't think people should talk rudely about other people behind their backs.
Again, from RJ in TO:
1) I'm sure you missed a few.
2) Over the years, I have said the same things on the Mainland, to the individuals involved, in multiple threads. My opinions on these things are not hidden away only in the Lounge.
3) In quite a few cases, I've also contacted the individuals by email to discuss these things further.
Jesus, don't let Davo see this.
I'm not saying it is a big deal but I am saying that it really is silly to try and justify what does sometimes go on in the lounge by saying X knows Y doesn't like him.
I've had people in the lounge talk trash on me and I don't really care. I think only called Bernal on it once. I don't remember exactly why I did. I think I did because he threatened violence on me or something like that otherwise I just chuckle and what can sometime come off as absolute cluelessness of the person who is trashing me.
I come to BTF for coherent discourse. I get that not everyone is interested in the same things that I'm interested in. I don't understand how my posts, or anyone elses for that matter, could do damage to this site in the least. That people are complaining says a lot about the moral character of the people that are complaining. It is quite ironic really. Not that I expect them to understand.
Finally, Bernal is as unpleasant a person as I've "met" here.
Is that you, Jimmo?
That's a weird stance to take about people insulting people.
The Lounge is not much like the last 200 posts but, based on our communications over the last several years, and your style of posting here, I do strongly suspect that you would hate the Lounge.
Right here, the only difference is that now they come in 14 different sizes and formats, whereas in my shop it was one size fits all.
---------------------------------------------------
Hey, be like a good boy and name names.
I've always appreciated your sense of humor, Andy. The problem is that political talk has pushed out baseball talk on the main site. It's not that there's no place for it, or that it'll disappear. The idea is that by creating a separate space for it people can argue to their heart's content, as well as anyone who wants to join in, without impacting the brand and its primary focus on baseball and sabermetrics. Which is why almost all of us ventured here in the first place.
I first got into Clutch Hits back in 1999 when I read some pidgin sabermetrician** trash my favorite writer, Leonard Koppett. I fought back with bared crowns and it was fun. What I've always liked about BTF is the variety of topics and the variety of POVs and posting styles, which range from duelling spreadsheets to spot on snark and everything in between both good and bad. I honestly can't see why anyone would object all that much to the current format, but after reading Jim's explanations of the changes (which at times have been a bit opaque), I'm not exactly adopting the Chicken Little attitude.
**The operative word there is "pidgin", as no real sabermetrician would ever do that.
I don't think I have anyway of finding it if in fact that was what happened.
Meh. If I said it about another poster, it's what I said. It's fair game, as it's on this site.
I give Bernal a ton of #### over everything, and occasionally it's not even a joke, but he's a well-meaning sort who thinks the world of his wife and kids and devotes himself to trying to make their lives better, and has, as hard as this is to believe, shown some genuine kindness to others here from time to time.
You don't have to like his humor or anything, and I know that plenty of people ignore him (some because they know if he says anything notable I'll probably quote it in the process of calling him an idiot), but I don't think it's fair to criticize him as a person because you don't like his posting style. Just one man's opinion.
Seconded. Obviously.
It's positively comical that the "problem" with the site is seen as the political threads, and not the gossip sewing circle people retreated to after speaking under false pretenses with others on the mainland. With all the mainland thread shutdowns, how were those Lounge threads not shut down when they devolved into personal attacks on non-participants? How did that happen?
One of these years I'll make it back to southern Ontario with some time and then we should have a beer.
Be sure to give advance warning of your arrival. There's a good number of people out here who would enjoy meeting you in person.
There is talking behind people's back, and sometimes it's not about what they write. I just searched my moniker and was surprised. I didn't know I was lounge-worthy. I'll have to monitor that, even if I don't play on the lounge. There is something about overhearing people talking about you...
Yeah, people talk about other people. So what? You don't think your wives and girlfriends talk about your inadequacies with each other? Who cares if an anonymous lounger doesn't like you?
Get over it.
Nah. You knew people weren't there defending themselves -- that's probably why you felt free to say those things -- and you carried on anyway.
And now it's been smoked out. Own it.
Um, access to BTF requires registration. That is not a blocker to the rest of the world.
That would be awesome
Maybe if a Lounge ever comes close to that, we'll find out. I mean, you might as well complain about why a Lounge was never shut down because it beheaded a bald eagle.
I get back to Ontario every couple of years to visit family. But that's with the kids in tow etc. There's bound to be a conference in the area that I want to attend eventually, however.
RETARDO??!!! Retardo was Sam before Sam was Sam. One of the funniest guys who ever worked this site. His over-the-top flame wars with "Neosporin" (in which both sides gave as good as they got) were classics in the annals of BTF. David's been in many a flamewar in his time, but that one was the real deal. It was like a duet rendition of Parker's Fortissimo Crescendo Eruption of Mt. Vesuvius.
Isn't that what RJ did?
So he's the Joey B of the lounge?
Sure it is a blocker. What you think our loved ones would ever sign in to see what we say about them? Inconceivable.
Well, except for that one time. Which you of all people should know.
Yep. I wrote what I wrote. It may have been wrong, or done out of annoyance or anger, but I'm not going to pretend I didn't write it.
I think that can be said about almost all the "longthreaders", too.
So he's the Joey B of the lounge?
There's a big difference between occasionally failed humor and unintended self-parody, and Joey's humor has never been anything but unintentional.
I'm sure it can. I don't know who they are.
You don't get it. The problem with The Lounge is that conversation is too disparate, and that all we do is sit around complaining about people on The Mainland that 90% of us have never heard of and have no opinion on.
You have a good Lounge avatar. You have a great profile photo.
If you make a comment on a part of the site that you know the people you're talking about don't go to, then yes, it is behind their backs. If, for some random-ass reason, people were to talk a bunch of trash about other posters on the NBA thread, for instance, then that would also qualify as behind their backs, even though it's indexed in google and available on the main site. This is pretty common sense.
In any case, the whole discussion about the Lounge is a giant red herring, and I'm sorry for responding as I did, as it certainly has not improved the quality of this thread. I apologize to Jim.
I know Murray Chass doesn't go to a single square inch of this site. Should we all own what we've said about him over the years?
####, there goes Tuesday's surprise.
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