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Wow, that was easy. With two outs and two strikes, I guess that's the time to try it.
It's all for nothing if the pitcher manages to throw the ball in the strike zone.
Villar crossed home plate before the ball arrived. Suppose Chen did throw a strike, does the run count?
Ball looked like it was well off the plate to the 3B side.
edit: upon further review, the ball was well off the plate, but it did appear to hit the runner.
A batter is out when --
(n) With two out, a runner on third base, and two strikes on the batter, the runner attempts to steal home base on a legal pitch and the ball touches the runner in the batter?s strike zone. The umpire shall call ?Strike Three,? the batter is out and the run shall not count; before two are out, the umpire shall call ?Strike Three,? the ball is dead, and the run counts.
So, seems to me, all the pitcher has to do is throw a strike. Doesn't matter if it hits the runner. It would be interesting if a pitcher, having been caught so flat footed, would have the presence of mind to just relax, let the run score, and throw an easy strike.
BTW, it's hard to tell from the replay, but it looked like the pitch was going to be a strike before the shot cut away from the CF camera.
Also, isn't it not a pitch because Chen stepped off the rubber?
But this is why the pitching coach shouldn't tell pitchers to forget about the runner on third with 2 outs and just focus on the hitter.
Yes, not a pitch, Chen stepped off. It was a pickoff attempt at home.
That would have been fascinating, particularly if Chen had simply gone through his normal routine and thrown the pitch several seconds later. Assuming it was a strike, the hullabaloo raised from all corners would have been something to see.
Are there rules laid out for the other bases? Guy on first gets a huge jump. Pitcher doesn't even begin windup until the runner is halfway there. Pitcher releases pitch when the runner is inches away from the bag. If the batter strikes out, lines out, gets put out at first, whatever, then the runner doesn't get a SB, and isn't considered to have gotten to second base.
Same scenario but the pitcher doesn't even begin his windup until the runner touches the bag at second. That's got to be a successful SB.
The term “when the wild throw was made” means when the throw actually left the player’s hand and not when the thrown ball hit the ground, passes a receiving fielder or goes out of play into the stands. The position of the batter-runner at the time the wild throw left the thrower’s hand is the key in deciding the award of bases. If the batter-runner has not reached first base, the award is two bases at the time the pitch was made for all runners. The decision as to whether the batter-runner has reached first base before the throw is a judgment call.
No run can score if the runner advances to home base during a play in which the third out is made by the batter runner before he reaches first base
Misirlou, the run counts, right? The only way a run that scores before the third out is made gets waved off is if the batter is retired at first or there's a force, as I understand it.
I believe the run counts in both cases. You can't record a fourth out, so once you tag the runner, inning over. I think there was a play once - maybe described in Luciano's book - where a runner on third with one out went home on a very short fly ball in the OF. The runner on second purposely got into a rundown and was tagged out. At that point, the inning was over and no appeal could be made on the runner who left early from third. A rational act only in a low run scoring environment.
You can't record a fourth out, so once you tag the runner, inning over.
And I can envision a scenario where you record a 5th out.
Appeal plays may require an umpire to recognize an apparent “fourth out.” If the
third out is made during a play in which an appeal play is sustained on another run-
ner, the appeal play decision takes precedence in determining the out. If there is
more than one appeal during a play that ends a half-inning, the defense may elect to
take the out that gives it the advantage.
This seems to imply that in the situation I described above, the defense can erase only one of the ill gotten runs. I wonder if that is true.
Unless two are out, the status of a following runner is not affected by a preceding
runner’s failure to touch or retouch a base. If, upon appeal, the preceding runner is the
third out, no runners following him shall score. If such third out is the result of a force
play, neither preceding nor following runners shall score.
Also, what is the difference between an appeal that a runner left a base too early, and just a normal force out? At what point would the defense have to make an official appeal rather than just throwing the ball to a player to step on the base?
I'm not sure what the force out point is, because they're not really the same thing.
Well, what I mean was say a hit an run play with a runner on first. Fly ball to right, RF throw to 1B who tags the base. Runner is called out. But what if the RF threw to third trying to get the runner? SS cuts off the ball and throws to first. The play is still "active" so I suppose the runner is out without appeal. But what if the SS lets the ball go through. 3B tag the runner who is declared "safe". Can he then merely throw to first to get the out, or at that point must there be an official "appeal"?
7.08(d) A runner is out when he fails to retouch his base after a fair or foul ball is legally caught before he, or his base, is tagged by a fielder.
Thanks for the rule, though I think it's wrong. More important, I don't think it's applied that way across the board (nor is it practical to do so).
If there's a play at the plate and a runner who left early is tagged milliseconds after he touches home, the third-base umpire does not run in and call him out. I can't imagine it's any different at the other bases (though, to be honest, I don't think I've ever seen it happen). In those cases, an appeal must be made. And if an appeal must be made when he leaves a fraction of a second early, then an appeal should have to be made if he leaves 5 seconds early. I don't see a logical reason they should be treated differently.
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