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The only reason to revive “the screaming savage” is because people would buy it.
Not sure who named it 'screaming savage' actually.
Comparing the treatment of the Irish in America with that of — say — the Cherokee nation, does a disservice to any reasonable discussion.
While surely the Cherokee have been more oppressed across the course of American history, pretending the Irish don't count as a historical discriminated against group is much more of a disservice to a reasonable discussion.
I have stated multiple times that the "screaming savage" image is a direct analog to the angry leprechaun. I have heard many times in response "it's not the same, because of the American genocide of the American Indian," to which I reply "tell that to Cromwell."
Politically correct douch-bags win again! Yay! What a society we have crafted! Whitey has saved those poor India..I mean Native Americans from being insulted by something they don't give a #### about. Don't we all feel good about ourselves.
I don't think the logo is that bad, but a major difference is that a significant percentage of the people who go to Notre Dame are actually of Irish descent. Self-caricature is generally less offensive than caricature by an outside party.
I would have a hard time convincing her that this was intended (when it was first drawn decades ago) as anything other than mocking and ridiculing of Native Americans.
If you can do something that offends only 2% of the public, and something that offends 0% percent of the public, it's a pretty easy choice. Why pick the fight just to pick the fight?
Many people identify pretty strongly with sports teams, and thus with the images that accompany them.
Absolutely. The correct rebuttal is that the Fighting Irish mascot has significant connections to the actual Irish community, like how the Seminole tribe actively participates in the Seminole football program. Saying "psshaw, like the Irish were ever seriously persecuted" is just ignorant.
Teams change those images all the time. I think I count about ten in baseball that haven't changed their primary logo, and that's being generous to the Dodgers and Giants. If your loyalty to a particular sports franchise is tied to the use of a particular image, well, that's pretty moronic. There are a few teams in MLB with histories tied to fairly distinct images. The Braves are not one of them. The others don't have images that are inherently racist. And of course, as pointed out, the Braves seem to have gotten along just fine without this logo for quite a while.
This was the primary logo for decades, pre-dating the move to Atlanta
I am saying people who identity with the image feel personally attacked when the image is attacked.
is just wrong. This was the primary logo for decades, pre-dating the move to Atlanta, and it is much beloved by many (though certainly not all) fans.
Maybe they should have gotten over it 25 or so years ago when the Braves stopped using that logo.
Then those people probably need to get over themselves
Notre Dame is the school Irish Catholics most strongly identify with (except for my dad, who never forgave Ara). There is no similar connection to the Braves or Redskins (but, as you note, there are some examples at the college and high school levels).
The Boston Redskins (which became the Washington Redskins) were originally named that in honor of their coach at the time, who was Native American.
The only "sincere" things about George Preston Marshall were his racism, his love of money, and his love of Broadway night life and Hollywood actresses.
This is so ####### obvious, it stuns me it's so often dragged out as an example. It's really easily summed as we vs. them. Some mascots/team names reflect the local area or its population in some ways, while others are about some unrelated entity. Notre Dame is the school Irish Catholics most strongly identify with (except for my dad, who never forgave Ara). There is no similar connection to the Braves or Redskins (but, as you note, there are some examples at the college and high school levels).
I think Atlanta should go back to the old Crackers name. Then the Braves fans can have an insulting stereotype as their mascot and the Native Americans can be treated like human beings. Everybody wins!
The Braves have friendly relations with the Cherokee nation, actually.
Oh, yeah. I'm sure a team from the deep south adopting a name descended from an epithet slaves used for plantation foremen in charge of distributing punishment lashes - "whip-crackers" - would go over very, very well.
Funny how in the 65 year existence of the Atlanta Crackers minor league team, nobody ever complained about the insult.
I thought that etymology was a myth?
Except that the fan base of that team was largely made up of the element that was supposedly being insulted.
The cutesy-poo minor league nicknames of today couldn't remotely compare to the team names of the dead ball era for originality and variety, and names that might result in lawsuits today were accepted then as a matter of course.
I'm not really in love with the idea of FSU being the Seminoles
*Though, I don't get the impression this actually the case. I don't claim to have comprehensive knowledge of the topic, but the studies I'm aware of seem to show that a sizable majority of N.A.s don't give a hoot about this kind of stuff, so I find it pretty hard to get my own dander up about it.
You seemed to answer that question yourself back in #34.
Just so we're clear, who do you think I think would be offended by a change from "Braves" to "Crackers?"
The pushback wouldn't be from Caucasians.
You mean it wouldn't be from 'crackers'.
I'm not sure how the term "cracker" originated, and it is definitely an insult when wielded by blacks or non-Southerners, has been for a long time. (Isn't it the word that gets Jack Nicholson's nose carved up in Chinatown?)
"On the reservation where I work, we have an 80% unemployment rate. There are people who don't have running water and telephone access. There are a shocking number of sex offenders who live there and we have high rates of crime. Many Native American's don't care about Native American mascots because they're trying to survive day to day."
Honest question - What should be the primary point(s) of focus as a society so that these conditions start to improve?
I actually really like the screaming savage logo idea. It'll just give me another clue as to which fans to avoid at the Ted. I'll add it to the people still wearing francouer jerseys and everyone on sundays.
I'm assuming that you've never been to a reservation.
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