Thursday, May 02, 2013
Padres formulating ‘long-term’ offer for Headley
(www.utsandiego.com)
posted on May 02, 2013 at 12:17 PM by RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) to chase headley, contracts, free agency, padres
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30 comment(s)
The previously highest paid player in franchise history was Carmelo Martinez, who made $490,000 back in 1989.
Read More...Chase Headley said he “didn‘t know how to respond” Wednesday afternoon after learning that the Padres are planning to offer their star third baseman a multi-year contract that would make him the highest-paid player in franchise history.
“To be honest, this is not something we’ve discussed,” Headley said at Wrigley Field.
Earlier Wednesday, Ron Fowler, the executive ...
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1 2 >It's hard to say (and are your speculations even true here?), but in this day and age it hardly seems unduly profligate to me. Even if he pitches 150 average innings I think $5.5 million sounds reasonable on the FA market ... I think the days of getting starting pitchers with a track record for much less than that are over.
Understanding that a healthy Scott Baker doesn't sign a one year contract, but in a hypothetical does he get more than $12M if he was healthy? For a pitcher that is quite possibly damaged goods in terms of quality and/or innings, getting that much guaranteed seems like his agent did a nice job for him.
Honestly, it seems like a huge bargain to me. $5.5M is practically Kevin Correia money.
I was thinking $12m is around the going rate for average free-agent starting pitching. A healthy Scott Baker historically is at least that, maybe a bit better (based entirely on his ERA+ numbers on BB-Ref). If you can expect 150 IP, that's maybe 3/4 of what you'd like to see in a healthy guy and I suppose you'd want to knock off a couple of million more for downside risk on quality. But even with all of that, I'm closer to Vlad - $5.5m for 1 year of a surgically-repaired average starting pitcher seems like a good deal to me.
On the other hand, if the Cubs are still committed to losing lots of games for rebuilding purposes, he's a guy they could flip after he makes only two or three starts, instead of them being burdened with four whole months of a pitcher helping them win games they would rather be losing.
I'm fine with it, he's this year's Maholm signing (the first of them at least) and will get flipped at the deadline if he's having a decent season.
For a team that is going to lose between 90 to 110 games in the lone season they'll have him?
For what? Even if somehow he is having a decent season what team is going to pay retail for a pitcher that isn't going to pitch much during the back half of the season? Any team that trades for him will be getting around 30 or so innings out of him.
Do Twin fans really not like him? I haven't followed closely, but I've always thought of him as the most reliable of the parade of generic white dudes they seem to pump out in that rotation.
Well what's the alternative use of that $5.5m? The Cubs are obligated to show up and play 162 games and they're required to have somebody pitch those games. I'd rather see Baker start 15-20 games than Chris Volstad or Casey Coleman. I'm not aware of any worthwhile minor leaguers that he'll be blocking. And I don't know Tom Ricketts personally, so I really don't care if he has $5.5 million less to buy a vacation home or whatever he'd be inclined to do with it. What free agent is now suddenly out of the Cubs' reach because of the extra $5.5m hit to their 2013 budget?
I was under the impression that his lack of innings will come at the front end of the season, because he's still rehabbing, rather than at the back end because of a Strasburg-style shutdown. I thought that the trade concern from the Cubs' perspective is that he won't be fully healthy early enough to build up significant trade value by the end of July.
Yea, the 2013 Cubs could be as bad as the 2012 Athletics or Orioles.
It's amazing how quickly and thoroughly Coleman worked his way onto my most hated Cubs team -- he might even be co-captain with Neifi...
Well what's the alternative use of that $5.5m? The Cubs are obligated to show up and play 162 games and they're required to have somebody pitch those games. I'd rather see Baker start 15-20 games than Chris Volstad or Casey Coleman. I'm not aware of any worthwhile minor leaguers that he'll be blocking. And I don't know Tom Ricketts personally, so I really don't care if he has $5.5 million less to buy a vacation home or whatever he'd be inclined to do with it. What free agent is now suddenly out of the Cubs' reach because of the extra $5.5m hit to their 2013 budget?
Casey is under team control for 2014 as well whereas Baker is not. Baker does well he is gone or will have to be signed as a FA after the season.
I was under the impression that his lack of innings will come at the front end of the season, because he's still rehabbing, rather than at the back end because of a Strasburg-style shutdown. I thought that the trade concern from the Cubs' perspective is that he won't be fully healthy early enough to build up significant trade value by the end of July.
It'll be a bit of both. But even if he comes back and could pitch 50 or 60 or 70 innings for another team after getting traded what is that going to amount too? The Cubs will get back a warm body.
This is what it is. Roster filler with the only difference being that instead of signing 5 scrap heap guys Theo signed one injured pitcher for 5.5 million.
Maholm was an enormous bargain (as I said at the time), and Harang (who grew up in SD and played college ball at SD State) reportedly gave the Padres a hometown discount.
You could have said the same thing about Maholm last year. Actually, as I recall, you DID say pretty much the same thing about Maholm last year, and that turned out great for the Cubs.
Even if they don't end up trading him, there's something to be said for putting an entertaining and at least marginally competitive product on the field. Watching a team with 100+ loss talent all season can be a real ####### ordeal - take it from me, I know that of which I speak.
It did?
Even if they don't end up trading him, there's something to be said for putting an entertaining and at least marginally competitive product on the field. Watching a team with 100+ loss talent all season can be a real ####### ordeal - take it from me, I know that of which I speak.
The Cubs did the exact same thing last year and loss a ton of games. There was very little to be entertained about.
Good lord, this is obtuse. No one is suggesting that Arodys Vizcaino is a sure thing; he's coming off Tommy John surgery and will have to reestablish his previous abilities following recovery and then continue to progress before you can pencil him in as a 4th starter type. But as far as lottery tickets go, he's a pretty promising one, worth every penny the team paid Malhom this year. Now the Malholm signing worked out very well for the Cubs (because he pitched so well for them in 2/3 of a season) and there is no guarantee that Baker will do the same, but it seems like the worst you can say about this deal is that the Cubs paid a million or two too much (I'm not saying that, but it sounds like others are). And quibbling over a million or two in the Cubs payroll is just picking nits.
Not very much but they've got nothing else to do with this $5.5 M and a little more minor league depth ain't gonna hurt anybody. I'd rather they had signed a real pitcher to a longer-term deal (Sanchez or at least Jackson) which of course they still might.
As they currently stand, the 2013 Cubs are substantially less talented than the 2012 Cubs which is scary. The primary reason for that is they had a pretty good rotation and traded half of it away while Garza got hurt. They need to rebuild a solid rotation just to get back to a 95-100 loss team.
C'mon McCoy, you led the Volstad-burning brigade ... and we don't even have him anymore do we? Scott Baker is an upgrade to the 2013 Cubs rotation, that's not really something you can argue against. Nothing more needs be said to justify a move for this little money.
It's amazing how quickly and thoroughly Coleman worked his way onto my most hated Cubs team -- he might even be co-captain with Neifi...
Really? Volstad's way ahead of Coleman in my regard. I don't hate Coleman, it's not his fault he's not a ML-quality pitcher and even the Cubs didn't think he was. Hating Casey Coleman is like hating the Libertarian presidential candidate -- a perfectly reasonable thing to do in the abstract but a real waste of time.
That undersells Arodys Vizcaino by quite a bit... he was a legit top 50 prospect before TJ. Even if he hadn't gotten hurt and scuffled instead this year, I don't think you get Arodys Vizcaino for anything approaching Paul Maholm.... Sure, there's obviously a tremendous amount of risk in getting a pitcher that missed a whole season, even without resorting to TINSTAAPP - but it might well end up being a steal.
Going into 2011, Vizcaino was at least moderately in the same league as Julio Teheran so far as young RHPs go... Teheran had a better 2011 and put some distance between them, and then Vizcaino got hurt...
But - prior to the injury, I think Sickels had Arodys as a top 30/top 40 prospect and without checking, I'm fairly certain both BPro and BA had him top 50.
EDIT: Just to add... even coming off injury, is there any question that Arodys Vizcaino is the top pitching prospect in the Cubs system at this time? Concepcion struggled, so did McNutt... I can't think of anyone else even in hailing distance.
A big part of it is that I've had the extreme poor luck and displeasure of seeing Coleman pitch in person an inordinate number of times, but yes - Casey Coleman just might be the ace of my most hated Cubs team. Chris Volstad worked his way into content for the rotation by season's end, but I just can't shake the similarity I see between Volstad and Rick Reuschel (whom I like a lot)... they're both tall, pudgy, and have similar repertoires (though, of course, Volstad's is a shittier version of the heavy - but not lively or particularly fast - fastball).
My most hated Cubs of all-time...
C Michael Barrett
1B Erik Karros
2B Neifi Perez
SS Jeff Blauser
3B Todd Zeile
LF Jacque Jones
CF Juan Pierre
RF Milton Bradley
OF Todd Hollandsworth
OF Luis Gonzalez
C Todd Hundley
IF Chris Stynes
IF Lenny Harris
UT Tony Womack
SP Casey Coleman
SP Julian Tavarez
SP Ismael Valdez
SP Danny Jackson
SP Jose Guzman
SP/RP Ed Lynch
RP Felix Heredia
RP Kyle Farnsworth
RP LaTroy Hawkins
RP Rick Aguilera
CL Goose Gossage
Dusty, of course, can manage the thing... I suppose I need another lefty in the pen - but the bullpen is especially hard to put together... so many deserving names I had to leave out.
And the recovery rate from TJ these days is what? 95%?
But hey - better that the Cubs had sat on their hands and kept the money for Maholm's salary in their pockets.
Sickels had him at #32.
He was BA's #40 heading into 2012. Not sure about BPro.
In fact, 6 of the top 10 were acquired after Epstein took over. That seems like a really high number for a regime that's only been on the job one year and who have supposedly been spinning their wheels this whole time.
I hardly hate any of those guys. Leaving Ryan Theriot off the list seems like a major upset to me.
I'm not against the trade. I think it is a meaningless trade. I'm against the notion that this is somehow a good deal for the Cubs. As I said they are going to be terrible this year and Baker isn't going to change that nor is he going to provide the Cubs with anything for the future as well. This is deck chair shuffling.
Who is accusing the Cubs of spinning their wheels?
I have yet to say that the Cubs wasted their time by signing Soler. I have yet to say the Cubs have wasted their time by trading for Rizzo. What I have said is that this whole notion of signing mediocre major league FA in the belief that they can be traded for value is largely overrated. I've also said this whole notion of getting "bargain" FA is stupid and silly. Who cares if Maholm is a deal at 5 million or Baker at 5.5? The Cubs are a large market team and they happen to suck as well. Signing some league average starter to a year or two year deal at a "bargain" is meaningless for the Cubs at this point.
I didn't think that the Cubs needed to go this route to rebuild so yes I was against the Cubs rebuilding in this manner. Unfortunately that ship has sailed.
You, way back in post 44, unless I'm misreading something.
That's two-time world series champion Ryan Theriot to you, good sir.
I struggled with including The Riot... but I have to admit, despite his offensive over-ratedness and cluelessness on the basepaths, I liked him... I had no desire to keep him once he hit arbitration, but I liked him.
I suppose - beyond F Troop - an awful lot of that hatred is being unfairly heaped on guys who just imploded once they became Cubs... Blauser was a Cubs killer who was exposed as only being able to hit Cubs pitching once he no longer got to face Cub pitching. Jose Guzman gets grief for not being Greg Maddux... Todd Zeile was just awful... Jacque Jones, I just hated the signing... Karros, I still blame for ruining Hee Sop Choi (yeah, yeah...)... Barrett, Tavarez, and Bradley were just ##########...
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