Go to end of page
Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.
Yeah, Miller's a miracle worker. It's not like there are any other examples where unionized labor led to a grossly overpaid workforce to the ultimate determent of the industry. Oh wait, that's every example of a unionized workforce.
Eh, they're only grossly overpaid as long as the jobs can be outsourced to places where wage slavery isn't just a figure of speech.
Nonsense. The Detroit area is full of people who make six figures for doing jobs any high school graduate could learn in an hour.
It's not like there are any other examples where unionized labor led to a grossly overpaid workforce to the ultimate determent of the industry.
If only Ayn Rand could come in and save the day!
With or without Marvin Miller salaries were going to rise and ballplayers were going to make a lot of money.
Is there something like free agency with typical unions?
Granted a very good plant manager or teacher is nevertheless quite replaceable unlike with Albert Pujols
That is stupid and false.
There aren't wins and losses in most businesses. If baseball worked like other businesses, Adam LaRoche wouldn't be a noticeably worse first baseman than Albert Pujols. LaRoche's team was hugely profitable with him as the first baseman, and Pujols's team was hugely profitable with him as the first baseman. There would be no reason to replace LaRoche, and no way to know or reason to think that replacing him with Pujols would lead to any advantage. There would also be no reason to balk at replacing LaRoche with Pujols, or Pujols with LaRoche.
Wins and losses are what create the huge profits by generating fan interest.
The owners make out in a major way, overall.
The thing is that with the current system the owners get the ability to suppress a player's salary for 6 years into his career, which will likely be the most productive years of the player's career. Players like Pujols and David Wright were paid peanuts earlier in their careers as their organizations were raking in revenue from them. What did the Angels pay Trout this year? The owners make out in a major way, overall.
The guys who really get hammered are guys who are great for years 1-3, say, then, get hurt. Those guys are screwed, and their earnings essentially subsidize the pay and benefits of the utility men and the profits of the owners. (Though I'm curious if a different system would actually change the percentage that goes to salaries or just redistribute it. If it's the latter, then owners shouldn't care.)
You could set up a system where everyone is a free agent after year 1 but there is no minimum salary and end up with wild variance in salaries but the same total percentage spent on salaries and the same money left over for development (though you wouldn't care about development under that system.)
This is the problem that the "libertarians" here have with the MLBPA. Those guys are theoretically replaceable, therefore they shouldn't be making any money at all. Instead of Kyle Kendrick making 5% of what Roy Halladay makes, he should be making 0.1%. Virtually nobody should make any money unless they are investors or are literally one of the best few people in the world at doing something that people happen to be willing to pay for. Anyone else would not have any "bargaining power" in a real "free market", therefore they should not have any bargaining power, therefore they should not have any money.
"A well-paid slave is, nonetheless, still a slave."
As for the MLBPA it's an outlier as labor unions go, because a lot of its members are not replaceable by anyone else on earth no matter how much training the scabs would get, and because it's negotiating with a cartel that has a near-monopoly on desirable jobs.
Anyone else would not have any "bargaining power" in a real "free market", therefore they should not have any bargaining power, therefore they should not have any money.
That lack of freedom was faced by slaves. These guys arent slaves and the analogy is way off. I could say the analogy is insulting to slaves, but since that institution ended over a hundred years ago perhaps most people will brush it off.
Name another American industry that was allowed to refuse to permit labor to move from one employer to another after the 13th Amendment?
That the vast majority of workers can migrate from Staples to Walmart to Best Buy makes the ability of wage slaves to move from one employer to another a distinction with very little difference.
This is what Curt Flood was campaigning against, and the counter that he could totally abandon his career and start an entirely new one doesn't wash.
"A well-paid slave is, nonetheless, still a slave."
There are basically three reasons why Marvin Miller was able to transform major league baseball players from moderately well-paid young men into athletic Vanderbilts being paid, in some cases, about $30,000 per at-bat, or $100,000 an inning.
The point was that it's not really a great accomplishment to have union members be overcompensated, every union leads to that.
I don't know why I should [value] an abstract "industry" over actual people and actual workers. (Especially since by "industry" I'm pretty sure you mean "the owners of the particular firms within the industry".
Funny; as a customer of the industry, I find modern baseball to be great. It's also super-profitable for owner and employee alike
Sounds about right. Goddam Randian Commie just ruined the game, didn't he?
As a hockey fan, I can't stop thinking about how good baseball has it. It is far and away the best run league and the reason it is the best run league is because Marvin Miller and Don Fehr forced them to be a well run league by removing the irrational and unjust privileges of the owners. It's evolved into a near perfect system in which almost everyone wins
Yeah, I can see why the Lords of Baseball don't want Marvin Miller in the Hall of Fame.
You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.
Login to Join (9 members)
Page rendered in 0.9829 seconds, 58 querie(s) executed