Mailed away & got his autograph as a kid (ditto for Earle Combs, mentioned as a comparison), as it happens.

Bill Nicholson is the best player I had never heard of.

Meh, I'd heard of both of them

using WAR, the best player I cannot recall having heard of was:
Art Fletcher (I paused on Jimmy Sheckard but I thunk I'd heard the name...)

Fletcher was an SS, and BBREF WAR loves his defense, I think WAR fielding runs for Fletcher's era are quite speculative... so perhaps Larry Gardner, a 3B from the same era- as a hitter Gardner was pretty much Pie Traynor- in fact you could stick his post prime 1920-21 statlines into Traynor's and they would not look out of place- but Gardner spend the bulk of his carer and his prime in the teens when offense was VERY low
Traynor also had the great glove rep (I have no idea what Gardner's rep was, never heard of him before afterall)- but WAR likes Gardner's glove a bit better (but doesn't love or hate either man's dee)

WAR gives Gardner a 10 WAR advantage over Traynor, but neither man is close to the HOM's 60 WAR line

Prime years were during the war when he was playing against watered-down competition. But a good player who I am guessing you would have heard of had you grown up a Cubs fan.

Looking more at Gardner- played in 4 WS and doesn't appear to have hit a lick- but did have 2 homers and 6 ribbies in the 1916 WS- Ruth was the pitching star...

Traynor also had the great glove rep (I have no idea what Gardner's rep was, never heard of him before afterall)-

Strat-O-Matic, which does a lot of research into its fielding ratings, rates him a "2" in 1911, and a "1" (the highest rating) in 1920.

By WAR, the first name I knew nothing about was Jack Stivetts, a 19th-century pitcher considerably above Fletcher or Gardner. But now I've heard of him. This is the original self-consuming party game :)

Nicholson I knew about, of course, because my father was a 13-year-old Cub fan in 1943. I also know about Lennie Merullo, and Lou Novikoff, the Mad Russian.

I'm actually just glad that the greatest player I'd never heard of isn't active. I probably know more ballplayers from the 1940s than I do from the 2010s. Certainly I know more from the 1960s and 70s.

I think Charlie Buffinton is the highest by WAR that I don't recognize.

I probably know more ballplayers from the 1940s than I do from the 2010s. Certainly I know more from the 1960s and 70s.

That's me, too. I memorized the entire baseball encyclopedia through the mid-1970s. (And that's not much of an exaggeration.) Then I graduated from high school, and real life, school, marriage, kids, career etc. rudely made their presence known.

Bradley (mentioned in the article) was the one guy I didn't know.
As for Roy Thomas, somebody buy him a first Ed. Bjhba

That's me, too. I memorized the entire baseball encyclopedia through the mid-1970s.

Please tell me you were like 12 years old? Because if you were around 16-17, I would have to assume you didn't get laid much...

Please tell me you were like 12 years old? Because if you were around 16-17, I would have to assume you didn't get laid much...

So if he were 12 you'd assume he was getting laid all the time?

Maybe. Did he live in the Happy Valley?

As for Roy Thomas, somebody buy him a first Ed. Bjhba

Apparently you could have one and still not know.

I'm bad with pre 1920's baseball. I didn't have to get very far down on the WAR leader list. I couldn't tell you anything about Eddie Plank or Roger Connor.

Geez, evidently if your career ended before 1900 and you don't have a twitter account, I probably know nothing about you, if I've even heard of you.

Frank Dwyer is the one name on that list I don't recognize. Years of playing the Bill James Classic Game will do that.

My definition of having heard of somebody is that I know whether he was a pitcher or a hitter. And by that definition, the best player by BB-ref WAR that I've never heard of is Bobby Mathews, the Marvelous Moustache of the New York Mutuals.

20th century division, it's White Sox pitching great and 7-time All-Star Billy Pierce.

I remember reading the New Historical Abstract, the one with the Top 100 at each position, and feeling embarrassed that there were players on there I had never heard of. Oil Smith, Bruce Campbell, John Stone, John Anderson... there were probably eight or ten of those guys.

But I know them now.

The last gaps in my awareness of obscure greats were eliminated in 1991 when I prepared a 500-player ballot for the Sabermetricians' Hall of Fame. Thanks to our friend Brock Hanke.

I knew about Bill Nicholson, but I never understood why he was called "Swish" and Dave Nicholson wasn't

(well actually, I do understand, but it's a shame that the nickname was used up on Bill)

"Swish II" just doesn't flow

My best player that I could tell you absolutely nothing about appears to be Dick McBride, who racked up 35 WAR and was out of baseball early in 1876.

Now, among good players that played in my lifetime, the one I was most uninformed about was Ralph Garr. I knew he was an outfielder and played for the Braves and hit for big averages a few times, but until he popped up near the top of Carl Crawford's comp list a couple years ago, I didn't know much about him. Hanging around very nerdy baseball guys, I don't think he's *ever* come up in a conversation I've been privy to.

Man, I'm nowhere close to an expert on baseball history, but I really do not know my 19th century greats. I figured I'd get further down the WAR list than Tim Keefe and Roger Connor before running into an unfamiliar name. The first player with post-1900 years I was unfamiliar with was Bobby Wallace, and his career started in 1894. First fully 20th century player I don't recognize is Stan Coveleski. Fun game.

roadrunner! my first "old" card...

Now, among good players that played in my lifetime, the one I was most uninformed about was Ralph Garr. I knew he was an outfielder and played for the Braves and hit for big averages a few times, but until he popped up near the top of Carl Crawford's comp list a couple years ago, I didn't know much about him. Hanging around very nerdy baseball guys, I don't think he's *ever* come up in a conversation I've been privy to.

Roadrunner. Hit an inside-the-park home run in the very first game I attended, when his fly ball resulted in a famously violent collision between Don Hahn and George Theodore.

from the article: "Roy Thomas: He and Nicholson are each other’s #2 most similar player."

On what basis? Certainly not on similarity scores.

They were left-handed hitting outfielders?

What am I missing?

Going through the position player WAR list, I can say that I don't think I've seen the name "Bobby Wallace" before (69th place), and couldn't accurately say what position he played or which decade. He's listed as a HOF'er, but his name only makes me think of NASCAR for some reason.

On the pitching side, I am clueless about the gentleman named "Charlie Buffinton" (56th). He sounds like he might be from the 1800s, just because of that rich-sounding last name.

That's me, too. I memorized the entire baseball encyclopedia through the mid-1970s. (And that's not much of an exaggeration.) Then I graduated from high school, and real life, school, marriage, kids, career etc. rudely made their presence known.

Fellow Primates, this is no exaggeration whatsoever. Steve T has a downright chilling recall of every player in that era. September callups, benchwarmers on last place teams, one hit wonders, various cups of coffee -- the man knows em ALL.

Charlie Buffinton was on the ballot that I made for the Hall of 100 thing we did on ESPN, so hopefully I spread some Charlie Buffinton propaganda to a couple dozen writers.

I know Bobby Wallace because he was one of those guys that were sent from Cleveland to St. Louis after 1898 so the Spiders could have their legendary year. Charlie Buffinton has a memorable name. Bobby Mathews ... nope.

One of the more obscure guys near the top of the list is George Uhle. Part of that is because he has 11.5 batting WAR. Which is why I know about him, he's on all the lists of the best hitting pitchers.

Going through the position player WAR list, I can say that I don't think I've seen the name "Bobby Wallace" before (69th place)

I have only the vaguest memory of my running across his name before, and the same is true of Wilbur Cooper. Their names are so generic that I'm discounting them and calling Lonny Frey my first miss.

I've definitely seen the name bobby wallace before but couldn't have told you anything about him. First total miss on the hitters' side: billy herman, #137. Hell, I've probably looked him up before, but unremarkable name + not particularly noteworthy career (despite being a very good player) = forgotten. Jack Glasscock and Bid McPhee? Heard of 'em and remember it...couldn't tell you anything about them at all, but I do remember their names...

On the pitcher's side, Charlie Buffinton got me as well, #56 (not counting the fact that I read it a few times in this thread before perusing the WAR list).

The best post-war player I'd never heard of was Dick McAuliffe. Though now that I've heard of him I suppose I don't know who the best player I've never heard of is.

Bill Nicholson: The Best Player I’d Never Heard Of

Oh, you mean William Beck Nicholson.

Roadrunner. Hit an inside-the-park home run in the very first game I attended, when his fly ball resulted in a famously violent collision between Don Hahn and George "The Stork" Theodore.

interesting gaggle...

Dan G (#15) - Good Grief! What did I do to you that made you do THAT? That's what we were trying to do in the old Baseball Maniacs, and it caused the group to fall apart due to burnout.

Nicholson is similar to Roy Thomas in that both were good outfielders who had little power, but who hit for average and took their walks. Actually, Thomas had NO power at all, even for the dead ball era. Nicholson did have a little power.

Bobby Wallace was a hot-glove Hall shortstop who could hit some, but whose memory is lost due to being an almost exact contemporary of Honus Wagner. Sort of like Bill Dahlen, except that Dahlen was probably a better hitter but a slightly weaker glove than Wallace, and not so exact a contemporary of Honus. Dahlen is not in the Hall, but could be. He has a pretty decent case.

Buffinton was at least a Hall of Very Good pitcher from the 19th century; you could make a case for the Hall of Fame, but it probably would not fly. Bobby Mathews is, essentially, Pud Galvin lite. Like Galvin, he pitched a huge number of innings for his time period (he goes back to the National Association in 1871), but didn't pitch at a high rate.

Billy Herman is in the Hall of Fame. He was a second baseman, a good singles hitter and a good glove. He was the kid that the Cubs found that led them to quit trying to get one more year out of Rogers Hornsby. According to reports, he hated Hornsby, and Hornsby hated him, although that's not unusual with Hornsby, particularly for some kid who is taking his job and forcing him to confront his mortality.

Jack Glasscock was a very good SS in the 19th century. Bid McPhee is possibly the best second baseman of the 19th century, and was recently inducted into the Hall of Fame, the first player to get in whose career has lots of seasons in the American Association. He was not the best player in the AA, but he has better confirming stats in his years in the NL than any other AA player, even Harry Stovey.

Billy Pierce was a small lefty pitcher who threw very hard. I think he's in the Hall of Merit. I remember seeing him in All-Star games in the 1950s. Dick McAuliffe was a glove wizard who could not really hit, from about the same time period as Pierce. You should be able to find footage of them playing without too much effort.

- Brock Hanke (who has had to work up the 19th century three times: the Baseball Maniacs, a magazine called Gravengood's, and the Hall of Merit)

pre-induction (and maybe post?), mcphee might be best known for being the last guy to field w/o a glove...

There are very few AS-type players since 1893 that I haven't at least heard of. I had a copy of the 1988 Baseball Enc., and I studied that for hours. I also gleaned the rosters for the best players because I simulated a league with AS teams from each decade and league in Tony LaRussa baseball or some similar game that was available on PC in the early 90's. I overestimated everyone's defense in the OF, which I didn't realize until I ended up with somebody leading the league with 20-some doubles and most players landing in the single digits.

I also have several baseball trivia books. Without consulting PI or Google, can anyone tell me who holds the rookie record for doubles in a season? Its one that very few people know, and the player is somewhat obscure.

Dick McAuliffe was a glove wizard who could not really hit

?? McAuliffe was a fine hitter. He has a career OPS of 109 and one year went as high as 148. He had power for a 2nd baseman and excellent strikezone judgement, walking over 100 times twice.

One thing about McAuliffe is he had perhaps the weirdest batting stance I had ever seen. His stance was way open, sort of like Brian Downing, and he leaned way back on his rear foot, so far that his front foot was barely touching the ground. And his bat was nearly parallel to the ground. Really strange stance.

I remembered that I might have had Dick McAuliffe confused with Aurelio Rodriguez, although I don't know why I'd confuse the two names. In any case. I checked McAuliffe out and found out that 1) he was a hot glove, but a second baseman, not a shortstop, and 2) he was a better hitter than I remembered - low averages, but good power for the time at 2B.

I think that 3B Jerry Denny was, technically, the last man to play the field without wearing a glove, although Denny might have become a benchwarmer before McPhee put on a glove. McPhee was the last 2B to play barehanded, but not the last player at any position. - Brock

Brock, I think you must have McAuliffe confused with someone else. His career started at the tail end of Pierce's, and as Publius said, McAuliffe could really hit. He had 197 homers and 71 triples in addition to the walks, despite player the bulk of his career in the second deadball era.

Edit: Coke

You might be thinking about Dick Schofield - he played for 19 years, starting in 1953, despite a .614 career OPS.

Or McAuliffe's double-play partner Ed Brinkman. Or McAuliffe's earlier double-play partner Ray Oyler.

I think you also have Bill Nicholson confused with someone else. He wasn't a good outfielder who had little power; he led the league in homers twice.

I think Brock's just having one of those days.

I certainly get Bill Nicholson confused with Michael Bourn sometimes, with all those Hot Topics articles about them.

thanks brock, didn't know that about denny (obviously)

There are very few AS-type players since 1893 that I haven't at least heard of. I had a copy of the 1988 Baseball Enc., and I studied that for hours.

Yeah, when I was about 9, I got Ethan Allen's "All-Star Baseball" for a birthday and played it relentlessly with my friends (truly...I think some stopped coming over to the house because it was all I would do). Ended up coding it onto our first computer (a 6800-based system) as my first program. Because it had no defense/pitching elements, I spent many, many hours coming the various Encyclopedias I could borrow from the library to find the best "times on base" players (MacMillan didn't have OBP, so I had been hand-calculating it without knowing it had a name). Led me to know many, many players (e.g., Erv Brame, Jack Stivetts, etc.) that are otherwise quite obscure to people.

Anyway, means that the first few players about whom I couldn't tell you more than their position are pitchers from the 1880s and '90s --- the aforementioned Buffinton and Ted Breitenstein --- and the first player I am unfamiliar with *by name* is Larry Gardner...someone of whom I have heard, but not linked the player with the name. (Almost thought Mike Smith was next, but his .398 OBP led to him being one of the bench options in the version of my game I wrote as a capstone project as an undergrad --- got to update it for the 6809!)

So, first guy I know nothing about and don't recall anything even after seeing his page is Sadie McMahon... Yep, seems I need to go read up on the pitching staffs of the 1880s and 1890s!

Sadie McMahon (probably) once murdered a peanut vendor. Seriously.

Link: http://tinyurl.com/azbg488 (Not hyperlinked because that's a giant pain from my tablet.)

I knew about Bill Nicholson, but I never understood why he was called "Swish" and Dave Nicholson wasn't

(well actually, I do understand, but it's a shame that the nickname was used up on Bill)

"Swish II" just doesn't flow

When I first saw the name "Bill Nicholson" my first three thoughts were: nicknamed "Swish", played for the White Sox in the '60s, struck out a ridiculous amount. Of course, the latter two are DAVE Nicholson, not Bill. And to add to the confusion, I confused Bill Melton and Dave Nicholson and thought that Bill "Swish" Nicholson was a thirdbaseman for the 1960s-era White Sox who struck out crazy amounts with pretty good HR power. So, I guess technically, the best player I'd never heard of was probably the same as the author here: the real Bill Nicholson.

Yeah, McAuliffe looked like a left handed Brian Downing to me in the 1968 world series. BTW, has anyone else spent a lot of time this winter watching classic games through MLB? I've got the iPhone app, which I can send to Apple TV and watch on the big screen. Earliest is the 1952 series, but a good selection from each decade after that.

The best post-war player I'd never heard of

That's an interesting limitation to try. I headed down the position-player WAR list and though I initially hesitated over a few, I seemed to summon up subliminal knowledge that is actually a bit distressing. E.g. I got to John Romano and blanked, and then a little voice said to me "American League catcher of the 1960s" and damn if it wasn't right.

I do confess to getting the Valentins mixed up, not to mention the Alex Gonzalezes, but at least I know there are two of each and roughly what the two of them did, if not immediately who was who.

The first postwar position player I drew nothing at all on was Bob Nieman, a journeyman slugger who was a little before my time (played mostly in the 1950s). On the pitching side, it's Gerry Staley, who pitched for the Cardinals in the early 50s while Nieman was playing crosstown for the Browns. Come to find that Staley became a top reliever for the 1959 White Sox, but I was in my infancy, listening to the air-raid sirens, when they won the pennant.