Jesus god, Barra is becoming as whiny as Raissman.

And yet beneath the whining, he does have a point, even if it's about the 500th time that a similar point could be made. It'd be hard to think of any semi-rational reason that Wright shouldn't be the starting third baseman.

He's also right about the myth of a bias towards New York players. That may apply to how many national telecasts New York teams get**, but not to awards voting or HoF selections. In this case, I wouldn't be surprised if it has something to do with the bizarre practice of allowing multiple votes.

**Which besides demographics and ratings, has a lot to do with the fact that the Yankees are always among the game's best teams.

But we can’t put this off just to New York fans. David Wright has been in the league 9 years to Sandoval’s 5, and he has been one of the NL’s best players for nearly that entire stretch. How could fans in other NL cities not know that Wright is a great player and, by a mile, the best 3rd baseman in the league?

David Wright:
2011 WAR: 1.9
2010 WAR: 2.5
2009 WAR: 2.9

This is one of the NL's best players? Does Allen Barra not realize that you can look this stuff up?

In this case, I wouldn't be surprised if it has something to do with the bizarre practice of allowing multiple votes.

Why? That it's a process you object to and this is a result you don't agree with doesn't mean the two are in any way connected. We know Pablo got more votes than David Wright. We also know that Giants fans have been a hell of a lot more likely to show up at Telecommunications Park than Mets fans have at Banking Corporation Field. If I had to pinpoint a culprit for the end result, I'd start with that inconvenient fact.

This is one of the NL's best players? Does Allen Barra not realize that you can look this stuff up?

But he is one of the NL's best players.

David Wright:
2011 WAR: 1.9
2010 WAR: 2.5
2009 WAR: 2.9

This is one of the NL's best players? Does Allen Barra not realize that you can look this stuff up?

You can also look this up:

David Wright's 2012 WAR to date: 4.6
Pablo Sandoval's 2012 WAR: 0.9

David Wright's two best WAR seasons: 8.1, 6.7
Pablo Sandoval's two best WAR seasons: 5.9, 4.1

-------------------------------------------------

In this case, I wouldn't be surprised if it has something to do with the bizarre practice of allowing multiple votes.

Why? That it's a process you object to and this is a result you don't agree with doesn't mean the two are in any way connected. We know Pablo got more votes than David Wright. We also know that Giants fans have been a hell of a lot more likely to show up at Telecommunications Park than Mets fans have at Banking Corporation Field. If I had to pinpoint a culprit for the end result, I'd start with that inconvenient fact.

That's a fair point about attendance, and the rules are the rules, even though the idea of openly encouraging ballot box stuffing by multiple voting is one of those curious and somewhat insane practices that can only be defended on marketing grounds. There's absolutely no other reason for its existence.

You can also look this up:

David Wright's 2012 WAR to date: 4.6
Pablo Sandoval's 2012 WAR: 0.9

Since the 2011 ASB:
David Wright:
AVG/OBP/SLG
.315/.401/.501 (OPS .912)

Sandoval:
.319/.369/.550 (OPS .919)

Are we supposed to forget about last year now?
Edit: also, dWar is broken right now. You really shouldn't use it anymore.

The Giants obviously must have enacted a voting campaign of insane proportions. Sandoval is a fun player, and he's usually really good, so his triumph over Wright, on its own, looks like an isolated, weird but understandable event. But when you look at how other Giants players did, it's clear that the whole team very simply benefited from some old-fashioned pig-headed ballot stuffing.

Brandon Belt came in second place among 1Bs, and Brandon Crawford, who is much closer to the league's worst shortstop than he is to the best, came withing 300,000 votes of starting, and Freddy Sanchez, who has proudly not set foot upon a baseball field this year, came in 4th place at his position.

In mid-June Wright had a 380,000 vote lead on Sandoval. In late June Wright had a 400,000 vote lead. Somehow, in the last week of voting, Sandoval made up that gap and ended up with a 1,600,000 vote lead! What the ####? How is that possible?

Since the 2011 ASB:
David Wright:
AVG/OBP/SLG
.315/.401/.501 (OPS .912)

Sandoval:
.319/.369/.550 (OPS .919)

Since the 2011 ASB:
Wright:
623 PA

Sandoval:
461 PA

also

Are we supposed to forget about last year now?

Yes. It's the 2012 all star game, not the first half of 2012 and second half of 2011 all star game.

That's a fair point about attendance, and the rules are the rules, even though the idea of openly encouraging ballot box stuffing by multiple voting is one of those curious and somewhat insane practices that can only be defended on marketing grounds. There's absolutely no other reason for its existence.

Actually, there's no reason to get worked up about it. This isn't bringing democracy to some troubled African nation. The whole idea is to generate interest in baseball. And if some kid (or basement-dwelling adult) demonstrates his interest in the game by repeatedly punching out his favorite players' names, it doesn't actually do the sport a disservice.

I get so sick of the whining about the A-S game because it's not exactly the game some fan wants it to be. Some fans think it should be about the guys having the best season. Others about the stars. Some want the teams to go all out in pursuit of victory, substituting infrqeuently. Others like to see players they don't see often during the regular season (hint: not every baseball fan has the extra TV package or an online subscription). The end result is the game is a blend of all those things, which is the only sensible way to handle it, despite the incessant caterwauling of the Barras of the world.

In mid-June Wright had a 380,000 vote lead on Sandoval. In late June Wright had a 400,000 vote lead. Somehow, in the last week of voting, Sandoval made up that gap and ended up with a 1,600,000 vote lead! What the ####? How is that possible?

This is most likely just due to a delay in counting. If several weeks of ballots weren't counted right away, it looks like a huge leap-frog, but just an artifact of collection.

Yes. It's the 2012 all star game, not the first half of 2012 and second half of 2011 all star game.

This POV is bizarre to me. You start voting in April. David Wright has been thoroughly mediocre for three years. Why wouldn't that affect how I vote for the 2012 ASG--after all, I don't want to see a bunch of first half flukes.

Should also note that it's not like the Giants have some otherwordly attendance record. They are third in the league. The popularity of the Giants is itself not an argument that can account for the insane voting totals of the Giants players.

Oh yeah, forgot to note: Angel Pagan was #5 in the voting for outfield, and Aubrey Huff, he of the .155 average in 58 ABs, was 14th.

Tshipman, do you still dare to defend Sandoval vs Wright with arguments about, you know, baseball? This was a triumph of marketing and absolutely nothing else.

This POV is bizarre to me. You start voting in April. David Wright has been thoroughly mediocre for three years. Why wouldn't that affect how I vote for the 2012 ASG--after all, I don't want to see a bunch of first half flukes.

Well, as I pointed out, even if you do want to use the bizarre "since last all star game" numbers, once you adjust for playing time, Wright has clearly been better than Sandoval. It's no contest. Wright is a better player over the past year, has been a much much better player in the past, and is a much much better player right now. Really though, I'm glad all the clowns in San Francisco voted in Sandoval, cause I'm a Yankee fan and I want the AL to win.

Since the 2011 ASB:
David Wright:
AVG/OBP/SLG
.315/.401/.501 (OPS .912)

Sandoval:
.319/.369/.550 (OPS .919)

Are we supposed to forget about last year now?

Edit: also, dWar is broken right now. You really shouldn't use it anymore.

I see. This year's gap is meaningless, previous peaks are meaningless, defensive metrics are meaningless, but whatever shows Sandoval in the best possible light is what we should be looking at.

Look, I don't care if Sandoval starts. I'll probably be at a pool tournament that night, anyway. And while I think Wright's clearly the more deserving player, Sandoval's choice isn't exactly the scandal that Barra seems to find so monstrous. But going forward I would love to see ballot stuffing eliminated as an offered option, whether or not it can ever be eliminated completely. If magazines can prevent you from easily renewing your subscriptions at the come-on introductory rate, surely baseball can get rid of the sort of ballot stuffing that makes farces like this a not-all-that-infrequent occurrence.

Yes. It's the 2012 all star game, not the first half of 2012 and second half of 2011 all star game.

Then have the vote after the year is over. It's silly/moronic to base the 2012 all star game based upon 2 months of stats(and yes I look at it as two months, since voting starts after one month)

Besides, why should NY fans be upset when Jeter is in the All star game? Jeter makes up massively for the Wright snub.

This was a triumph of marketing and absolutely nothing else.

Which is exactly what the All-Star game is all about, and absolutely nothing else. Not that there's anything wrong with that, since it's little more than an exhibition showcase. But winning the game is so far down on the list of priorities that it barely qualifies as an afterthought.

Which is exactly what the All-Star game is all about, and absolutely nothing else.

Unfortunately that's true. It's just annoying to see these wacky results defended as if they were, well, worth defending.

Which is exactly what the All-Star game is all about, and absolutely nothing else.

Which is why your outrage over the atrocity that is all-star ballot stuffing is so bizarre.

I see. This year's gap is meaningless, previous peaks are meaningless, defensive metrics are meaningless, but whatever shows Sandoval in the best possible light is what we should be looking at.

I'm not completely serious in any of this, but you really should ignore dWar right now. It's quite broken.

Well, as I pointed out, even if you do want to use the bizarre "since last all star game" numbers, once you adjust for playing time, Wright has clearly been better than Sandoval. It's no contest. Wright is a better player over the past year, has been a much much better player in the past, and is a much much better player right now. Really though, I'm glad all the clowns in San Francisco voted in Sandoval, cause I'm a Yankee fan and I want the AL to win.

What a guy did in 2007 is not really that relevant. Over the last four years, Sandoval has been a better player. I don't see why it's bizarre to base your vote on how a guy has played since the last ASG.

Tshipman, do you still dare to defend Sandoval vs Wright with arguments about, you know, baseball? This was a triumph of marketing and absolutely nothing else.

Well, first of all, both guys made the team and both guys deserved to, so it's not really a big deal, imo (although I do think Mets fans are silly for whinging about it).

My point was originally more that Barra was pretending that Wright's been a star since he's been in the league was wrong, as his three year malaise actually put him squarely outside of "star" territory. Btw: he can still fall off significantly in the second half. He has a .384 BaBiP right now.

I don't see why it's bizarre to base your vote on how a guy has played since the last ASG.

In which case you should have voted for Wright, since once you account for playing time, he has clearly been better than Sandoval since the last all star game.

Brandon Belt came in second place among 1Bs, and Brandon Crawford, who is much closer to the league's worst shortstop than he is to the best, came withing 300,000 votes of starting, and Freddy Sanchez, who has proudly not set foot upon a baseball field this year, came in 4th place at his position.

In mid-June Wright had a 380,000 vote lead on Sandoval. In late June Wright had a 400,000 vote lead. Somehow, in the last week of voting, Sandoval made up that gap and ended up with a 1,600,000 vote lead! What the ####? How is that possible?

Yeah, either someone literally hacked the system, or they had one HELL of an organized campaign. I suppose one of the advantages of encouraging multiple votes is that the votekeepers don't have to worry overly much about which one it was. I'm sure they have systems in place to identify mechanized voting, but I'm also sure they don't spend all day scrutinizing it.

(It would have been funny if Brandon Crawford had been elected the starting All-Star shortstop. I'm sure you would have heard a lot of people talk about taking away the vote if that had happened.)

Anyway, it's irrational to be mad at people who decided that the All-Star Game isn't important enough to get involved in doing that. It's like being mad at them for not voting for "American Idol", or for which Wal-Mart Pitbull should perform at. (BTW, vote for Kodiak, Alaska). If they have no interest in participating in this particular PR campaign, then they have no interest in participating in this particular PR campaign.

Call it the Celebration Game and get rid of any notion that these guys are voted in by merit.

EDIT: And if fans start acting like homers to the point of fielding a team full of lousy players, then take away their vote.

What a guy did in 2007 is not really that relevant. Over the last four years, Sandoval has been a better player. I don't see why it's bizarre to base your vote on how a guy has played since the last ASG.

Selective endpoints I guess.

Since 2010 Wright has a 138 ops+ to Sandoval's 126. Has a 9.0 war to Sandoval's 8.1. Why is 2007 irrelevant, but 2009 is all the sudden so important? Is that because, it's the one of two possible time frames available for Sandoval to come out ahead... let's see
2012 only. Sandoval 145 ops+ Wright 179
2011-2012 Sandoval 155 Wright 144 (extra 130 pa from Wright makes up some of the difference, defense is the real tie breaker)
2010-2012 Sandoval 126 Wright 138. (the 180 pa advantage for Wright doesn't figure in)
2009-2012 Sandoval 132, Wright 134.
2008-2012 Sandoval 131 to Wrights 136.

I'm not even seeing how someone can say Sandoval has been the better player over the past four years, it's hard enough to argue over the last year and a half for Sandoval.

It's actually selective endpoints that benefits Wright in this argument. By any reasonable measure, Chipper Jones is a much, much better player. Scott Rolen, too.

My point was originally more that Barra was pretending that Wright's been a star since he's been in the league was wrong, as his three year malaise actually put him squarely outside of "star" territory. Btw: he can still fall off significantly in the second half. He has a .384 BaBiP right now.

Barra was overselling his point, but you are overselling yours. Wright has been an All-Star in every year but 2011, when he missed most of May and all of June. That alone gives lie to the idea that he was ever squarely outside of "star" territory, and you have to put a lot of credence in his fielding numbers in 2009-2010 to swipe those years into "malaise" territory.

On your "Btw," of course, nobody is as good as their best half.

It's actually selective endpoints that benefits Wright in this argument. By any reasonable measure, Chipper Jones is a much, much better player. Scott Rolen, too.

Wouldn't argue that. Just pointing out, that if the original poster would have said "last three years" and it would have been clear that Wright has been the better player over the past three years, past one year, past five years, it's just the four year listing that puts Sandoval in the discussion.

Top 3rd Basemen by bWAR 2009-2012

Evan Longoria 23.1
Adrian Beltre 18.3
Ryan Zimmerman 15.2
Alex Rodriguez 12.8
Pablo Sandoval 12.2
David Wright 11.9
Scott Rolen 9.5
Chipper Jones 8.8

Top 3rd Basemen by bWAR 2005-2012 (Wright's career, excluding his mid-season callup in 2004)

Alex Rodriguez 42.6
Adrian Beltre 34.9
David Wright 34.3
Chipper Jones 30.4
Evan Longoria 27.6
Ryan Zimmerman 25.2
Scott Rolen 21.2
Aramis Ramirez 18.7

This really shows what a beast Longoria is.

Wouldn't argue that. Just pointing out, that if the original poster would have said "last three years" and it would have been clear that Wright has been the better player over the past three years, past one year, past five years, it's just the four year listing that puts Sandoval in the discussion.

Sandoval has been the better player since his first full season--as you see in post 27.

Wright has been an All-Star in every year but 2011, when he missed most of May and all of June. That alone gives lie to the idea that he was ever squarely outside of "star" territory, and you have to put a lot of credence in his fielding numbers in 2009-2010 to swipe those years into "malaise" territory.

So your argument is that his undeserved selections in 2010 and 2009 justify his selection in 2012? That's an interesting argument.

Which is exactly what the All-Star game is all about, and absolutely nothing else.



Unfortunately that's true. It's just annoying to see these wacky results defended as if they were, well, worth defending.

Actually, that's not true---it's also about home-field advantage in the World Series, which is a big deal.

Also, didn't the commissioner's office step in after the fans' voting in like, 1960 or so, when all 8 NL starters were Cincinnati Reds after a civic ballot-stuffing campaign? Ladies and gentlemen, your starting All Star Second Baseman, Eddie Kasko!!

This isn't really that relevant to the conversation (except maybe to prove Wright's star status), but I'm having fun using PI for free and I thought this was interesting.

Top Players by bWAR (2005-2012)
Albert Pujols 57.7
Chase Utley 48.2
Alex Rodriguez 42.6
Miguel Cabrera 37.1
Mark Teixeira 37.0
Matt Holliday 35.2
Adrian Beltre 34.9
David Wright 34.3
Carlos Beltran 33.8
Joe Mauer 33.7

Utley has a whopping 15 dWAR over that period of time. It is also depressing to see that the Mets had two top ten WAR players during that time and very little to show for it.

Sandoval has been the better player since his first full season--as you see in post 27.

12.2 to 11.9 WAR is well within the margin of error. And you still have not addressed the fact that, by your own standards(performance since last all star game), Wright should be the starter once you account for playing time.

So your argument is that his undeserved selections in 2010 and 2009 justify his selection in 2012? That's an interesting argument.

Ugh. You said that Wright was not a star for three years. I pointed out that in two of those years he was selected to the All-Star team.

12.2 to 11.9 WAR is well within the margin of error.

By oWAR only, Wright has outperformed Sandoval 14.8 to 12.5 over that time as well.

Basically, since Sandoval came into the league, he has been roughly Wright's equal. Wright's having the much better year and deserves to start the All-Star game, but taking a wider view of the two, picking one over the other isn't really that big of a deal.

And since 2009, Zimmerman's been better than both of them.

12.2 to 11.9 WAR is well within the margin of error. And you still have not addressed the fact that, by your own standards(performance since last all star game), Wright should be the starter once you account for playing time.

ASG voters typically have not penalized guys for getting hurt.

I seem to be getting off-track, though. It's never been my position that Sandoval unequivocally deserves to be the ASG starter. My position is that both guys should probably be in the game, but that Mets fans (including Allen Barra) are being unnecessarily histrionic when discussing Wright not being the ASG starter.
As a secondary position, basing your ASG voting solely on this year is, in my opinion, bad voting. Citing this year's stats and ignoring last year's to claim that Wright is the victim of some kind of conspiracy is also stupid, and ignores the fact that many votes are cast early in the year.
Finally, I also think that dWar is broken and I don't know enough to know how that is affecting these two players right now because I have no idea how much the Giants shift compared to other teams in the league.

Sandoval has been the better player since his first full season--as you see in post 27.

I don't see that at all. I see by one metric, war, that Sandoval and Wright are effectively even(I thought it was understood that war is not accurate to a decimal point) since Sandoval has joined the league. Which of course, would then be another argument for Wright, if you want to argue their careers and they are equal since Sandoval's career started, Wright get's the bonus points for having the extra years.

Actually, that's not true---it's also about home-field advantage in the World Series, which is a big deal.

It is? Has it ever really made a difference? Last time I looked it up, I think the team that won the world series in seven games, had homefield advantage like 3 more times than the visiting team. Heck, I still think the true advantage goes to what's considered the visiting team. That 3-4-5 games at home, is the big deal, split one on the road with your two best pitchers, come home with your 3-4 guys, use the home crowd to pump them up, and bring back your aces for the final games if need be. Your aces shouldn't need the crowd to pump them up, or have to take advantage of the unique stadium as much as your scrub pitchers.

Citing this year's stats and ignoring last year's to claim that Wright is the victim of some kind of conspiracy is also stupid, and ignores the fact that many votes are cast early in the year.

Here's what you're missing. It's not about last year's stats. It's about two things: this year's stats, and fame. That's what the voting is usually about, and IMO, it's even what it should be about. That's why it matters what Wright did in 2007 and 2008, and why it matters that Wright was an All-Star in 2009 and 2010 despite substandard seasons. Those things contribute to, and reflect, his fame.

When you consider those two factors, it is clear that under normal circumstances Wright would have won the vote. Wright is more famous and he's been better this year. But he didn't win the vote. Why? Probably because the Giants enacted some crazy voting campaign the likes of which no other team in baseball even approached. The proof is the fact that every single Giants player vastly outperformed voting expectations, from Buster Posey and Melky Cabrera to Aubrey Huff and Freddy Sanchez. Or maybe the Giants fans were all just nuts. Regardless, there is no baseball reason for this outcome, and all of the arguments about WAR or endpoints are completely irrelevant to the question of why it happened.

Is it a silly thing for us Mets fans to get all huffy about? Sure it is, but that's what we do on this website, we debate minutiae.

I think the Met front office is partly to blame too. They seem to like to undervalue their players, so they can dump the higher paid. This spring, when not moaning about his injury-prone-ness, they seemed to steer any conversation about him to his tradability. Not exactly a way to get the fan base to vote.

Is it a silly thing for us Mets fans to get all huffy about? Sure it is, but that's what we do on this website, we debate minutiae.

Great point. The entire comment was good, but I liked this point so highlighted it. There really is no reason for Sandoval to have beaten out Wright for the other points you mentioned, other than some type of organized campaign on the parts of the Giants.

Wright is really hurting from the lack of a cool nickname.

there are so many snubs for the A-S game, picking on this one is kinda silly. Why don't we discuss how hard it is , relatively speaking, to make the team as an SP, versus other positions? Why don't remind everyone of past snubs thatare waaaay more egregious than this 3B issue? Look up Wade Boggs' first 3 years sometime, with an AVG of .345 and a ton of walks, and tell me why he made zero AS teams even as a reserve during that time. I could go on and on....

#41

How about David "The" Wright "Stuff" or David "Do" Wright?

[40] There really is no reason for Sandoval to have beaten out Wright for the other points you mentioned, other than some type of organized campaign on the parts of the Giants.

You think?

LA Times
In baseball All-Star voting it's not always 'may the best man win'
July 02, 2012|By Lance Pugmire ...

The support for Texas, which had seven players named to the American League team with an eighth still being considered, is understandable. The Rangers, coming off consecutive World Series appearances, have the best record in baseball and, in pitcher Yu Darvish, a player who has international appeal.

But the Giants, who have three starting position players on the National League team?

Well, apparently they run a really good campaign.

Third baseman Pablo Sandoval rallied from a voting deficit of more than 400,000 to pass David Wright of the New York Mets, who is batting 54 points higher and has twice as many runs batted in. The other Giants starters are Buster Posey, whose .303 batting average is third-best among NL catchers, and outfielder Melky Cabrera, who is batting .352 but is relatively unknown on a national scale after spending last season with the small-market Kansas City Royals.

The Giants' success can be traced to a late surge in voting sparked by a promotional campaign that made each fan who voted 20 or more times online eligible for a prize of two game tickets, a meet-and-greet with the team's All-Stars, the opportunity to watch batting practice from the field, dinner for two at McCovey's restaurant, and two $50 gift cards.

The team also pushed for votes by playing a video [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c06yu7gfjbY] on the AT&T Park scoreboard at home games. In it, Bay Area rapper E-40 and a young girl urge fans to use their mobile phones to vote for Giants players.

It was a cheesy — and effective — production. ...

The best evidence of the Giants' promotional power involves two players who didn't make the All-Star game but received an unusual amount of voting support.

Brandon Belt, who was batting .269 with four home runs and 29 RBIs in only 171 at-bats when the final ballots were tabulated, finished second in the voting among NL first basemen. And Brandon Crawford, who is batting only .232, was within 306,000 votes of finishing first among shortstops. [Emphasis added]

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/jul/02/sports/la-sp-all-star-balloting-20120703

SFGate
Posey, Cabrera, Sandoval, Cain are NL All-Stars
Henry Schulman
Updated 10:31 a.m., Monday, July 2, 2012

The Giants launched an all-out marketing push in the past few days to get their players elected. They made constant announcements on the air and in the ballpark. They even installed electronic terminals at AT&T Park so fans could cast the 25 ballots each was allowed.

Being at home through the final days of voting surely helped. So did Cabrera falling out of a starting position last week. That spurred a "Vote Melky" campaign that apparently worked. Sandoval clearly rode his coattails. [Emphasis added]

http://www.sfgate.com/giants/article/Posey-Cabrera-Sandoval-Cain-are-NL-All-Stars-3677369.php

SFGate
SF Giants' All-Star push for Posey, Cabrera
John Shea
Updated 08:49 p.m., Wednesday, June 27, 2012

The first round of All-Star voting results were released Tuesday, and Posey (1,082,464 votes) ranked a close second among NL catchers to St. Louis' Yadier Molina (1,100,048) and ahead of Atlanta's Brian McCann and Philadelphia's Carlos Ruiz.

Melky Cabrera was fifth among NL outfielders behind Matt Kemp, Carlos Beltran, Ryan Braun and Andre Ethier.

The Giants are planning a "major push" to get Posey and Cabrera to the All-Star Game in Kansas City on July 10, according to Staci Slaughter, senior vice president of communications. The team will be encouraging fans at the ballpark and through social media, broadcasts and e-mail to vote.

"We've always done a major campaign," Slaughter said. "Given Buster's and Melky's standing in the polls, we will definitely go all out to try to get them elected."

Pablo Sandoval, who's rehabbing from hamate surgery and facing possible sexual-assault charges, is fourth among third basemen behind David Wright, David Freese and Chipper Jones. [Emphasis added]

http://www.sfgate.com/sports/article/SF-Giants-All-Star-push-for-Posey-Cabrera-3612228.php

outfielder Melky Cabrera, who is batting .352 but is relatively unknown on a national scale after spending last season with the small-market Kansas City Royals

what? Melky Cabrera relatively unknown? Didn't he use to start for some other team before the Royals? Give me a minute, and it'll come to me. One of those obscure teams...

what? Melky Cabrera relatively unknown? Didn't he use to start for some other team before the Royals? Give me a minute, and it'll come to me. One of those obscure teams...

Yeah, but the Braves must toil in anonymity as well if Freese can beat out Bourn in the final vote.

Besides, why should NY fans be upset when Jeter is in the All star game? Jeter makes up massively for the Wright snub.

Try telling that to Mets fans who hate the Yankees, which is most of them!

He's also right about the myth of a bias towards New York players. That may apply to how many national telecasts New York teams get**, but not to awards voting or HoF selections. In this case, I wouldn't be surprised if it has something to do with the bizarre practice of allowing multiple votes.

I dont think that there is a general belief that is an bias towards New York for any of those things, except for media coverage. So I'm not sure what myth he's busting.

I also don't think there's a general belief that New York is the best baseball town.

So that's two-for-two on making up myths and them busting them.

Ah, this argument again. tshipman isn't going to be convinced by any evidence you offer. After all, don'tcha know that the 2012 ASG is actually for the players who had the hottest second half of 2011.

Seriously, you can't put together an argument that makes Sandoval a credible starter over Wright. It requires desperate cherry picking and repeatedly flipping your criteria for selection. The fact of the matter is that the Giants put together an epic ballot stuffing initiative the likes that we probably won't see again because it's going to get banned by MLB. That results in Pablo starting. That's the only reason Sandoval is starting.

Also, it's fun that he cites Wright's 3 most lackluster years, but ignores that by that tally Wright still leads Superstar Sandoval.

The fact of the matter is that the Giants put together an epic ballot stuffing initiative the likes that we probably won't see again because it's going to get banned by MLB.

I'd be surprised if MLB banned it.