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cfb - Look at the replay, he "swings" AFTER the pitch was already by him. No persecution complex, and obviously the umps felt it was intentional as well. Even the broadcast on the MLB.tv replay, who are NOT the A's broadcasters, feel the same
Really? That's defensible to you? OK....what have you to say about Donaldson being HBP in after merely tagging a guy out on his way to 3B?
Concur. He should get no more and no less of a suspension than a pitcher who beans someone intentionally. What's the going rate for that?
To pretend it's just an inside pitch, is as silly as me pretending that him throwing the bat was an accident.
both Abad and Machado were thrown out which was the correct decision. Not sure about the suspension... two balls thrown at Machado should be nearly as bad as one bat fling wildly towards none really.... bat flings are far more rare and unacceptable though, so it would not surprise me if only Machado get suspended. Its rare for a pitcher to get suspended for not hitting anyone.
ETA - Also, in looking at past instances of batters losing the bat on a swing, you'll notice each one of them is surprised and watches where the bat goes.....not so much with Machado on that play....it's awfully hard to believe it was an honest accident.
Showalter enables Machado's crybaby antics and this is what you get. Look, I have nothing against the Orioles, in fact I'm fairly fond of them as a non-Yankee/Red Sox faction of the AL East, but while Showalter manages that team I hope they sink to the bottom of the standings and stick there.
how does someone hit a catcher on the backswing intentionally?
I'm not sure what is going on with Machado this last few days. He has always seemed to me to be a happy, friendly, normal likable guy, and now he is acting like a total prima donna and dragging his team into fights for no reason. I'm not sure if he's just a 21 year old having a really bad week, or if he's showing his true colors now that he's facing some adversity for the first time in his career.
This is all on Buck Showalter, the self-proclaimed defender of the right way to play the game.
"I think that probably had something to do with two days ago," he said. "Off-balance, after the tag put him in harm's way with the knee. I don't know if they took any exception to Manny accidentally tipping their catcher's (helmet). I don't know. You've got to ask them. I just know that it's real easy to get caught in the emotion of something as a manager to make a decision that takes a lot more guts sometimes to say no instead of being there responsible for something that someone loses their career over. I've tried with the years, think a little bit before you shoot from the hip.
"I thought Manny responded very well in that game and had some very good at-bats in this series compared to some other people who might have been involved in altercations. I thought Manny handled it better than someone with some experience did. It was also a good experience for him to have. He cares. It's a learning experience for all of us."
And man I would love to have seen the hysteria if Puig had done this.
There is plenty of circumstantial evidence that the backswings were intentional. This happens quite rarely, but twice today. And the smirking about it, and not apologizing like every other hitter who hits the catcher like that does.
And for those who hadn't seen it (like me), video of the tag that infuriated Machado
Chen's head-hunting on Donaldson.
That is some weak ass headhunting if people believe it was intentional, then more power to them, but it was some weak ass effort if so.
Donaldson has been hit in about 1% of his PA's in his career. Chen has hit three batters over the last two seasons. In the plate appearance following an incident Donaldson had with an Oriole player, Chen throws up and in with one pitch and hits him with the next. It was pretty obvious that Chen was throwing at him.
Blasphemy. It is baseball treason to wish for anyone other than the Yankees to finish last.
I'm not saying that Chen didn't come inside on purpose, I just don't think this is the risky type of pitching that people generally associate with "headhunting".
He should have been tossed and he should be suspended.
Machado should be gone for a while - as stupid as beaning someone is, it's not going to injure an umpire or spectator. It is also exacerbated by the backswings.
It's pretty obvious he was pitching inside, there is a massive difference between that and headhunting or hitting intentionally.
That is "clearly" throwing the bat on purpose? Wow. I thought Braves/Brewer fans had the biggest persecution complex in baseball.
I haven't seen the backswings yet, but those sound massively worse crime than the bat throw.
Agreed there. I'm mostly going after the usage of the word head hunting, more than I'm talking about penalties.
If you agree that he was intentionally trying to hit him, then I don't know why you have a problem with the term head-hunting. Both pitches were shoulder-height or higher. If you're going to hit someone intentionally (which seems like a ridiculous over-reaction to Donaldson's tag) then you hit them below the waist.
Just saw your #55. I'm going to guess your reaction was more to the post I made and the more you actually uncover facts about this situation, the more you are backing away from your original stance(s).....
(as to whether he was right with the message pitch, it doesn't matter whether Donaldson did something wrong or not, the team perceived it as wrong)
I agree he was coming inside to send a message and if he got hit, then so be it. That is the difference between headhunting and message pitching. Headhunting is something criminals do. Message pitching is something team players do.
Alfonso Soriano may be available.
The fact that Machado shows absolutely zero concern for the C after the backswing (which apparently was the 2nd one of the AB that hit the C) tells me it was purposeful. Every time I've ever seen a guy hit the C with a backswing he's shown a great amount of concern for how the C is doing.
Another interpretation is that Manny was harboring a stupid grudge against the As, so he acted like an immature prick and purposely ignored Norris after he accidentally hit him with the loopy backswing he has always had.
How is this a different interpretation?
Machado seems like a punk; has he always been this way? His idol is apparently A-Rod.
Donaldson's tag was not clumsy. You have to make sure you tag the guy.
Video of the second backswing that hit Norris.
And for those who hadn't seen it (like me), video of the tag that infuriated Machado and Chen's head-hunting on Donaldson. From just these videos, the Orioles look pretty terrible here.
? When has ARod ever behaved this way? Even after Dempster hit him for using steroids he never retaliated.
While I realize swings do change, I didn't see a single swing in the clip that showed anything as long as the two today that hit Norris. Mix that the lack of normal batter reaction when they do accidentally clip a catcher (which is at least a grimace by the batter in recognition of what he did) and I'm ready to call this idiot guilty.
All I'm saying is that I see very little evidence that Manny intentionally hit Norris.
There's plenty of evidence that he acted like a dick all weekend.
David Ortiz hits catchers on the follow through somewhat often. I have never seen him fail to immediately turn and apologize. I mean, he says something and I assume he's apologizing, for all I know he's saying "ha ha, got you good you piece of ####."
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