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So Shields throws a complete game 2-hitter striking out 15 Orioles, walking none, and loses the game 1-0. One hit went about a hundred feet, the other about five hundred. Is that the best game by a losing starter this year?
5.Austin posted on October 03, 2012 at 01:24 AM #hit 0 | hit 0
I'm very excited for the do-or-die game for the AL West tomorrow. It's very frustrating that the Red Sox squandered that ninth-inning lead, though...
In the old format it would be:
Yankees: clinched spot, would get home field with a win or Orioles loss, drop to WC with loss and Orioles win
Orioles: clinch WC with a win, division and #2 seed with win and Yankee loss, and would play loser of OAK/TEX with a loss
Atheltics: Division title with a win, game 163 with loss and Orioles loss, done with loss and Orioles win
Rangers: Same position as Athletics
But in the current format it's:
Yankees: Clinch division with win or Orioles loss. Otherwise, sent to game 163 to determine whether they'll get a WC berth or a division title and first round bye.
Orioles: Need a win and Yankee loss to force game 163 to determine as above. Otherwise will be a wild card.
Athletics: Win game for a first round bye.
Rangers: Win game for a first round bye.
So, the Rangers and Athletics have slightly less to play for in the new format since the loser could be done in the old format, but it's still pretty big. The Yankees have more to play for. The Orioles are in kind of a strange position. An Orioles loss would result in the exact same situation as last year with the WC round of the playoffs replacing a game 163.
An Orioles loss would result in the exact same situation as last year with the WC round of the playoffs replacing a game 163.
And the question becomes, how do the O's play Game 162? All out to win (and hope for the nigh impossible, a Red Sox victory), just to grab a tie. Or play it straight (or even punt it), hope for a win and Yankee loss but save all your most important bullets for the play-in? It seems to me the more logical play is to expect to be in the wild-card game and, thus, don't knock yourself out in Wednesday's game (which, interestingly enough, is kind of what the new system is trying to prevent). At this point, you only have about a 25 percent chance of getting into a one-game playoff for the right to avoid the one-game play-in, so I'm not sure it's worth killing yourself in pursuit of that.
The Rangers-A's contest is exactly what baseball wanted with the two WC system (a division championship that truly matters). Though, as noted above, it would have been even more compelling last year when the loser would have had a very real chance of missing out on the postseason entirely.
I'd go all in if I were the O's. Even if you're resigned to playing the WC game, home field advantage would be a big deal and right now they're tied with Oakland/Texas.
12.Squash posted on October 03, 2012 at 01:53 AM #hit 0 | hit 0
So Shields throws a complete game 2-hitter striking out 15 Orioles, walking none, and loses the game 1-0. One hit went about a hundred feet, the other about five hundred. Is that the best game by a losing starter this year?
[7] I think the Orioles have to go for it. They lost the season series to both Oakland and Texas. So even if the Yankees win, home field in the wild card game is at stake.
Edit: Half a coke to Suede.
15.Shredder posted on October 03, 2012 at 01:57 AM #hit 0 | hit 0
The pans over to the Rangers dugout the last two nights have made it seem like they've already accepted their fate as a WC team.
If that happens and the Rangers lose the wildcard game, that would be just about he most awesome thing ever.
I'd go all in if I were the O's. Even if you're resigned to playing the WC game, home field advantage would be a big deal and right now they're tied with Oakland/Texas.
I'm not sure what "all in" consists of, but I say go for it. I want to beat the Yankees, not just be a WC team. Even though Boston is determined to roll over.
Meanwhile for the A's, do we see Balfour close for a fifth straight game if they've got the lead? He's looked electric the last couple nights, but even the mad Aussie has got to have some physical limits, right?
19.Danny posted on October 03, 2012 at 02:16 AM #hit 0 | hit 0
Meanwhile for the A's, do we see Balfour close for a fifth straight game if they've got the lead?
Cook's pitched 4 straight, too. And Doolittle's pitched 3 straight and 4 out of 5. Plus, Neshek's away for his child's birth.
I really hope it doesn't come down to Scribner and Miller setting up Blevins.
I really hope it doesn't come down to Scribner and Miller setting up Blevins.
We've had good luck with converting first basemen into relievers with Doolittle. Is it too late to teach Chris Carter to throw a four-seam fastball?
22.dr. scott posted on October 03, 2012 at 02:47 AM #hit 0 | hit 0
At the game tonight. Crowd was electric from first pitch. Good to see Blackley go 6. Bullpen has got to be exhausted though. Oh yea, and Johnny Gomes won the Catfish Hunter award. Didn't hear what hat meant though... Is it for best facial hair? With Reddick clean shaven, I guess it was an easier pick.
We've had good luck with converting first basemen into relievers with Doolittle. Is it too late to teach Chris Carter to throw a four-seam fastball?
Daric Barton has a much better arm.
I'd favor throwing Balfour out there one more time, with somebody up for backup, juuuuust in case.
Balfour's season, pitching on 0 days rest: 18 games, 17 innings, 6 hits (1 HR), 7 BB, 17 K, 1.59 ERA.
The Catfish Hunter Award goes to the Oakland player "whose play on the field and conduct in the clubhouse best exemplifies the similar courage, competitiveness and inspirational spirit as the late Hall of Fame pitcher."
It's voted on by the A's players and staff. Pretty cool thing.... although looking at the list of past winners (Hudson, Ellis, Kendall, Ellis again, Sweeney, Suzuki, Sheets, and Willingham) makes me think the award really means "guy who is leaving the A's soon."
Evidently Showalter plans on starting Tillman on Wednesday, and then Joe Saunders will get the nod for the division playoff against the Yankees on Thursday or the WC game on Friday, depending. I hate to second guess Buck but this doesn't strike me as a move that gives the Orioles their best shot at surviving the week. If Tillman beats the Rays the O's are home against Texas/Oakland/NY no matter what. But would you rather have a winner take all home game with the 9-13 Saunders on the mound, or on the road with the 9-2 Tillman? Having that home playoff game is nice, but should that be the end all and be all of your post season strategy?
Cliff Pennington's line since moving to 2b from SS: .280 / .333 / .410.
Not great, but a heck of a lot better than the black hole he was at bat for much of the season. He's been much better than Weeks with the glove, too.
The Catfish Hunter Award goes to the Oakland player "whose play on the field and conduct in the clubhouse best exemplifies the similar courage, competitiveness and inspirational spirit as the late Hall of Fame pitcher."
It's voted on by the A's players and staff. Pretty cool thing.... although looking at the list of past winners (Hudson, Ellis, Kendall, Ellis again, Sweeney, Suzuki, Sheets, and Willingham) makes me think the award really means "guy who is leaving the A's soon."
So...McCarthy
I really hope it doesn't come down to Scribner and Miller setting up Blevins.
I actually would like to see that. If Balfour, Cook and Doolittle come in and do badly, it would bode poorly for the WC game on Friday maybe. But what the hell do I know? Melvin's made every right move this year whether I agreed with it at the time or not. For all we know Griffin will come down with the flu and Jesse Chavez will pitch a no-hitter.
I'm not sure what "going all out" means in this context, but with an off day between game 162 and a potential WC game, I think other than choice of starter, there's no reason to hold back. I guess game 163 could throw a wrench in this, but it still seems clear to play your starting position players and not hold back on the pen. I suppose [25] at least was just talking about starting pitcher.
Also, go A's! It would be unreal to win the division given the way things looked even a few days ago.
29.Greg (U)K posted on October 03, 2012 at 05:39 AM #hit 0 | hit 0
makes me think the award really means "guy who is leaving the A's soon."
To be fair I think that describes everyone who's played for Oakland in the past few years.
Evidently Showalter plans on starting Tillman on Wednesday, and then Joe Saunders will get the nod for the division playoff against the Yankees on Thursday or the WC game on Friday, depending. I hate to second guess Buck but this doesn't strike me as a move that gives the Orioles their best shot at surviving the week. If Tillman beats the Rays the O's are home against Texas/Oakland/NY no matter what. But would you rather have a winner take all home game with the 9-13 Saunders on the mound, or on the road with the 9-2 Tillman?
Season ending series of defacto playoff games agains the Red Sox, and the Yankees have not drawn more than 41,000. Something is very wrong.
Trost and Levine destroyed the brand. ####### dumbshits
32.DKDC posted on October 03, 2012 at 07:52 AM #hit 0 | hit 0
I think Showalter should hold back Tillman. The path to a division title depends on the Red Sox winning, which seems unlikely, to say the least.
The Os can do a bullpen game tomorrow and still have a pretty good shot to win, and then they save their best starter for an elimination game (or game 163).
But he's already said that Tillman is starting today, so I guess that ship has sailed.
In buck we trust.
33.DKDC posted on October 03, 2012 at 08:06 AM #hit 0 | hit 0
So Shields throws a complete game 2-hitter striking out 15 Orioles, walking none, and loses the game 1-0. One hit went about a hundred feet, the other about five hundred. Is that the best game by a losing starter this year?
94 game score in a loss. It think that te highest since Randy Johsnon put up a 97 in 1992.
34.bunyon posted on October 03, 2012 at 08:24 AM #hit 0 | hit 0
You play to win the game. I don't see any reason anyone would hold back today. Go out and play hard.
If you're the O's or A's, you were supposed to be long dead. Winning the division, even if you get swept in the LDS would be a huge achievement. So, go for it. Yes, it takes an unlikely Red Sox win for the O's to win the division, but it also takes an O's win. So, do what you do to win.
The one-game playoff, no matter who you pitch or how you approach it, isn't much better or worse than 50/50. Playing for strategy in setting up a one-gamer just doesn't get you much. If setting up that strategy costs anything at all, I don't do it.
Too bad about the Dodgers. And too bad I have meetings from 3pm through 8pm. Dammit.
If the Orioles lose, they have to go on the road Friday (Texas and Oakland hold the tiebreakers). You do whatever you can to avoid that.
36.DKDC posted on October 03, 2012 at 08:58 AM #hit 0 | hit 0
Of course the As should go all out, but they are in a completely different situation than the Os, who are a longshot for the division.
Starting Tillman today probably increases the Os chance at winning a division title from maybe ~6% to ~8%. If that fails, they've probably reduced their chance at winning the Wild Card game from ~50% to ~40%.
All-in, the Os are reducing their chances of making it to the DS round by 5-10% (depending on how big you think the gap between Saunders and Tillman is, and how much you think HFA is worth).
Now, 5-10% is a big number, but it's not so big a number that its a no-brainer. If Buck thinks it would be bad for team morale to concede the division, then that might make up the difference right there. Again, I support Buck's decision, but I think you have to be willing to think outside the box in the world of one game playoffs.
37.jobu posted on October 03, 2012 at 09:03 AM #hit 0 | hit 0
Evan Grant of the DMN wrote this morning, about the A's celebration of clinching a playoff spot: "Champagn. Big fat stogies. It's possible a few of the players may have danced to 'Gangnam Style.'" Having watched the A's nearly every day for the 2nd half of the season, I think there is very little doubt that some of the players danced to "Gangnam Style."
38.BDC posted on October 03, 2012 at 09:07 AM #hit 0 | hit 0
Oddly enough, the only contending club that gets to take it easy is the seventh-place Detroit Tigers.
39.DKDC posted on October 03, 2012 at 09:09 AM #hit 0 | hit 0
If the Orioles lose, they have to go on the road Friday (Texas and Oakland hold the tiebreakers). You do whatever you can to avoid that.
Not necessarily. I'd almost rather have Saunders start in the Coliseum than Camden Yards.
Not necessarily. I'd almost rather have Saunders start in the Coliseum than Camden Yards.
On the other hand, it's been 15 years, and Friday might end up being their only playoff game. If they go on the road and lose, and the home fans didn't get to even see so much as a celebration of clinching the playoffs, that would be a huge letdown.
41.bunyon posted on October 03, 2012 at 09:29 AM #hit 0 | hit 0
If that fails, they've probably reduced their chance at winning the Wild Card game from ~50% to ~40%.
Not to be harsh, but, nonsense. I agree the odds go down but a) while Tilman is good, he isn't Greg Maddux and b) while Saunders is not as good, he isn't some AAA call up. Try to win. That is all you can do. Let's say you punt the game and the Sox win. Then you lose the play-in. How do you sleep at night if you're an Oriole? Trying to win and failing is admirable. Playing it safe and failing is execrable.
42.DKDC posted on October 03, 2012 at 09:29 AM #hit 0 | hit 0
Yeah, as much as I don’t want to admit that anything would be a letdown after this season, a one-and-done – especially on the road – would sting a little bit.
43.DKDC posted on October 03, 2012 at 09:36 AM #hit 0 | hit 0
Try to win. That is all you can do. Let's say you punt the game and the Sox win.
How are they punting the game by not starting Tillman? He’s no Greg Maddux.
Trying to win and failing is admirable. Playing it safe and failing is execrable.
Not to be harsh, but that's nonsense. The goal is to win the world series, and you do whatever you can to maximize your ability to achieve that goal. It sounds like if the choice were between Greg Maddux or some AAA call-up for the wild card, you’d be advocating the execrable thing. So you don't really disagree with my strategy, just my assessment of the relative talent of Tillman and Saunders.
Champagn. Big fat stogies. It's possible a few of the players may have danced to 'Gangnam Style.'" Having watched the A's nearly every day for the 2nd half of the season, I think there is very little doubt that some of the players danced to "Gangnam Style."
I'm very, very pleased to have no earthly idea what that refers to. (In short, people are stupid & they should be shot; correspondingly, the things they like &/or do tend to be insanely idiotic.)
46.JJ1986 posted on October 03, 2012 at 09:47 AM #hit 0 | hit 0
Season ending series of defacto playoff games agains the Red Sox, and the Yankees have not drawn more than 41,000. Something is very wrong.
The Yanks could solve that in a minute by lowering their prices to a point that reflects economic reality and the growing awareness of StubHub, but obviously they don't want to be setting any dangerous precedents.
48.robinred posted on October 03, 2012 at 10:08 AM #hit 0 | hit 0
This is cool. I was also thinking about how cool it would be under the two-division system.
The Yanks could solve that in a minute by lowering their prices to a point that reflects economic reality and the growing awareness of StubHub, but obviously they don't want to be setting any dangerous precedents.
Yep. I mean, I enjoy snatching $3 tickets off Stub Hub, but in a perfect world I'd pay a little bit more to get them from the box office. A little bit more, mind you. Not ten times more.
50.DKDC posted on October 03, 2012 at 10:25 AM #hit 0 | hit 0
Can't Hammel pitch on Friday?
Hammel threw 73 pitches in a simulated game on Monday. He probably won’t be on the roster for Friday’s game.
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1 2 >Griffin v. Dempster tomorrow. Hope AJ finds his groove.
Yankees: clinched spot, would get home field with a win or Orioles loss, drop to WC with loss and Orioles win
Orioles: clinch WC with a win, division and #2 seed with win and Yankee loss, and would play loser of OAK/TEX with a loss
Atheltics: Division title with a win, game 163 with loss and Orioles loss, done with loss and Orioles win
Rangers: Same position as Athletics
But in the current format it's:
Yankees: Clinch division with win or Orioles loss. Otherwise, sent to game 163 to determine whether they'll get a WC berth or a division title and first round bye.
Orioles: Need a win and Yankee loss to force game 163 to determine as above. Otherwise will be a wild card.
Athletics: Win game for a first round bye.
Rangers: Win game for a first round bye.
So, the Rangers and Athletics have slightly less to play for in the new format since the loser could be done in the old format, but it's still pretty big. The Yankees have more to play for. The Orioles are in kind of a strange position. An Orioles loss would result in the exact same situation as last year with the WC round of the playoffs replacing a game 163.
And the question becomes, how do the O's play Game 162? All out to win (and hope for the nigh impossible, a Red Sox victory), just to grab a tie. Or play it straight (or even punt it), hope for a win and Yankee loss but save all your most important bullets for the play-in? It seems to me the more logical play is to expect to be in the wild-card game and, thus, don't knock yourself out in Wednesday's game (which, interestingly enough, is kind of what the new system is trying to prevent). At this point, you only have about a 25 percent chance of getting into a one-game playoff for the right to avoid the one-game play-in, so I'm not sure it's worth killing yourself in pursuit of that.
The Rangers-A's contest is exactly what baseball wanted with the two WC system (a division championship that truly matters). Though, as noted above, it would have been even more compelling last year when the loser would have had a very real chance of missing out on the postseason entirely.
Yeah, I was using the straight math, not accounting for the Godawfulness of one of the participants.
(Yeah, I know: only since 1918, and only 9-inning games.)
Edit: Half a coke to Suede.
Cook's pitched 4 straight, too. And Doolittle's pitched 3 straight and 4 out of 5. Plus, Neshek's away for his child's birth.
I really hope it doesn't come down to Scribner and Miller setting up Blevins.
They sure are. Bailey for Reddick. Can't believe anyone who touched that one is still gainfully employed.
And Derek Lowe getting the win for the Yankees. Of course.
We've had good luck with converting first basemen into relievers with Doolittle. Is it too late to teach Chris Carter to throw a four-seam fastball?
Daric Barton has a much better arm.
I'd favor throwing Balfour out there one more time, with somebody up for backup, juuuuust in case.
Balfour's season, pitching on 0 days rest: 18 games, 17 innings, 6 hits (1 HR), 7 BB, 17 K, 1.59 ERA.
It's voted on by the A's players and staff. Pretty cool thing.... although looking at the list of past winners (Hudson, Ellis, Kendall, Ellis again, Sweeney, Suzuki, Sheets, and Willingham) makes me think the award really means "guy who is leaving the A's soon."
Not great, but a heck of a lot better than the black hole he was at bat for much of the season. He's been much better than Weeks with the glove, too.
So...McCarthy
I actually would like to see that. If Balfour, Cook and Doolittle come in and do badly, it would bode poorly for the WC game on Friday maybe. But what the hell do I know? Melvin's made every right move this year whether I agreed with it at the time or not. For all we know Griffin will come down with the flu and Jesse Chavez will pitch a no-hitter.
Also, go A's! It would be unreal to win the division given the way things looked even a few days ago.
To be fair I think that describes everyone who's played for Oakland in the past few years.
FWIW, Orioles vs Yanks this year:
In Yankee Stadium: 6-3
In Camden Yards: 3-6
Trost and Levine destroyed the brand. ####### dumbshits
The Os can do a bullpen game tomorrow and still have a pretty good shot to win, and then they save their best starter for an elimination game (or game 163).
But he's already said that Tillman is starting today, so I guess that ship has sailed.
In buck we trust.
94 game score in a loss. It think that te highest since Randy Johsnon put up a 97 in 1992.
If you're the O's or A's, you were supposed to be long dead. Winning the division, even if you get swept in the LDS would be a huge achievement. So, go for it. Yes, it takes an unlikely Red Sox win for the O's to win the division, but it also takes an O's win. So, do what you do to win.
The one-game playoff, no matter who you pitch or how you approach it, isn't much better or worse than 50/50. Playing for strategy in setting up a one-gamer just doesn't get you much. If setting up that strategy costs anything at all, I don't do it.
Too bad about the Dodgers. And too bad I have meetings from 3pm through 8pm. Dammit.
Starting Tillman today probably increases the Os chance at winning a division title from maybe ~6% to ~8%. If that fails, they've probably reduced their chance at winning the Wild Card game from ~50% to ~40%.
All-in, the Os are reducing their chances of making it to the DS round by 5-10% (depending on how big you think the gap between Saunders and Tillman is, and how much you think HFA is worth).
Now, 5-10% is a big number, but it's not so big a number that its a no-brainer. If Buck thinks it would be bad for team morale to concede the division, then that might make up the difference right there. Again, I support Buck's decision, but I think you have to be willing to think outside the box in the world of one game playoffs.
Not necessarily. I'd almost rather have Saunders start in the Coliseum than Camden Yards.
Not to be harsh, but, nonsense. I agree the odds go down but a) while Tilman is good, he isn't Greg Maddux and b) while Saunders is not as good, he isn't some AAA call up. Try to win. That is all you can do. Let's say you punt the game and the Sox win. Then you lose the play-in. How do you sleep at night if you're an Oriole? Trying to win and failing is admirable. Playing it safe and failing is execrable.
How are they punting the game by not starting Tillman? He’s no Greg Maddux.
Not to be harsh, but that's nonsense. The goal is to win the world series, and you do whatever you can to maximize your ability to achieve that goal. It sounds like if the choice were between Greg Maddux or some AAA call-up for the wild card, you’d be advocating the execrable thing. So you don't really disagree with my strategy, just my assessment of the relative talent of Tillman and Saunders.
I'm very, very pleased to have no earthly idea what that refers to. (In short, people are stupid & they should be shot; correspondingly, the things they like &/or do tend to be insanely idiotic.)
The Yanks could solve that in a minute by lowering their prices to a point that reflects economic reality and the growing awareness of StubHub, but obviously they don't want to be setting any dangerous precedents.
The Yanks could solve that in a minute by lowering their prices to a point that reflects economic reality and the growing awareness of StubHub, but obviously they don't want to be setting any dangerous precedents.
Yep. I mean, I enjoy snatching $3 tickets off Stub Hub, but in a perfect world I'd pay a little bit more to get them from the box office. A little bit more, mind you. Not ten times more.
Hammel threw 73 pitches in a simulated game on Monday. He probably won’t be on the roster for Friday’s game.
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