Sunday, May 19, 2013
Cafardo: Dustin Pedroia the best second baseman in MLB?
(www.bostonglobe.com)
Sweet spectroscopy! The argument is rolled out again!
Read More...It’s not surprising to hear what two scouts from each league, who both have watched a lot of the American League this year, say about Dustin Pedroia.
“Nobody is playing his position better in baseball right now than Pedroia,” said the AL scout. “He’s playing out of his mind. The plays he’s making — you just don’t see that stuff every day, but you see it with him every day. Honestly, I’m surprised he doesn’t get hurt ...
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1 2 3 4 5 6 > Last ›If he is, I doubt it's by much.
I generally try to avoid guessing the motivation behind the individual HBP, but it was pretty obvious on most of Pedro's (in part becuase he had such great control/command).
Maybe 90 percent weren't intentional HBPs, but probably 90 percent were either intentional or indifferent to that outcome.
Gotta admit, it does keep the pitch count down.
Exactly.
I've always considered "brushbacks" a part of baseball, and I'm not knocking Pedro for simply admitting the obvious. But whenever Joba plunked one of those Carmine hosed darlings, the indignation level here approached JoePa levels. Funny how when Hub hero Pedro admits doing exactly what Yankee pitchers have been accused of doing, the only reaction is a duel of witty responses.
Why should that matter? A mediocre middle reliever has every bit as much right, and far more need, to brush people back as Pedro.
This is simply people who like Pedro covering for him being an ***hole.
Right, that was actually my point. Joba is a nonentity, Clemens is an #######, and people like Pedro. You just said it shorter than me.
Maybe I am misremembering but did Pedro throw at people's heads? I do seem to recall Joba doing this...
And when was Clemens blasted for throwing at people (bat-throwing incidents not included)?
By the numbers, it's much more obvious that Pedro was throwing at batters than Clemens or Joba, making this more of a "well, yeah" situation. I took a quick look at HBP for all three pitchers, along with batters faced, wild pitches, and walks (trying to get a numerical sense of HBP as intentional rather than as a function of control).
Of the three, Pedro hit batters at the highest rate, hitting 1.23% of the batters he faced. Clemens hit 0.79%, and Joba hit 1.10%.
Pedro hit 2.27 batters for every wild pitch, compared to 1.11 for Clemens and 1.19 for Joba.
Pedro hit 0.19 batters for every walk he issued, compared to 0.10 for Clemens and 0.12 for Joba.
I remember running the numbers more extensively a few years ago, and found that Clemens didn't hit a disproportionate number of batters as a percentage of batters faced or by comparison to his overall control numbers, but that Pedro was off the charts high. Clemens has a reputation as a headhunter because he wasn't afraid to brush a hitter back and because of one high-profile beaning. Pedro really did throw at hitters pretty consistently.
What you seem to recall is Joba throwing high and inside, which pitchers have been doing since forever. AFAICR he's never beaned anyone.
And when was Clemens blasted for throwing at people (bat-throwing incidents not included)?
Read some of those threads devoted to Clemens and Piazza and see if near-homicidal intent on Clemens' part isn't practically assumed to be a part of his character.
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Perhaps it's because Pedro's control usually produced "contact" on the first try, while Joba often needed several attempts, making the intent seem that much more obvious. And for Red Sox fans, Clemens became inherently evil once he left the team, coloring their view of anything he did.
That's pretty much it, though obviously not all Red Sox fans are of the same mindset about it.
Of the three, Pedro hit batters at the highest rate, hitting 1.23% of the batters he faced. Clemens hit 0.79%, and Joba hit 1.10%.
Pedro hit 2.27 batters for every wild pitch, compared to 1.11 for Clemens and 1.19 for Joba.
Pedro hit 0.19 batters for every walk he issued, compared to 0.10 for Clemens and 0.12 for Joba.
I remember running the numbers more extensively a few years ago, and found that Clemens didn't hit a disproportionate number of batters as a percentage of batters faced or by comparison to his overall control numbers, but that Pedro was off the charts high. Clemens has a reputation as a headhunter because he wasn't afraid to brush a hitter back and because of one high-profile beaning. Pedro really did throw at hitters pretty consistently.
And yet in spite of what these numbers clearly demonstrate, the indignation here gets directed almost solely at Clemens and Joba. I suppose intentionally throwing at a batter's elbow or knee is kosher as long as you're the cute and cuddly Pedro, and as long as you're wearing a Red Sox uniform.
Matt, I don't give a flying #### that Pedro was throwing at batters, but I am amused at anyone who tries to say that "that's different" than Joba or Clemens in so many ways. I'm just pointing out the obvious disconnect between the reaction of Red Sox fans to Pedro's admitted actions and the persecution complexes they exhibited whenever Joba threw high and inside to one of their heroes.
If a pitcher exhibits a pattern of throwing behind a batter's front shoulder, then he arguably deserves a reputation as a headhunter. Because that's the most proven way of actually bringing home a trophy. But neither Pedro nor Joba nor Clemens ever exhibited any such pattern of behavior, which is why I don't feel any particular indignation towards any of them. AFAIC if anyone tries to make some sort of moral distinctions among those three, their fanboy colors are showing.
Nice to see that all those prior threads about Joba the Headhunter have been Trotskyized out of memory.
Was Joba known as a headhunter, or was it just his repeated throwing at Youkilis?
Who is Karim Garcia?
I don't understand. Who has done that here?
I'm talking about the contrast between the first 13 comments on this thread and the outrage exhibited by Red Sox fans against Joba's "headhunting" in many threads prior to this one.
Concur. Pitchers have a right to pitch inside. If a hitter hangs over the plate, he deserves to get hit. Jeter deserved every one of those pitches he too off the hands. He dives like a French soccer player.
But, nothing Joba or Clemens, or any other pitcher did in throwing up and in is any worse (or better) than what Pedro did.
People here (esp. Sox fans) just find Pedro cute, and Clemens and Joba loathsome.
You do realize these numbers were posted by a Red Sox fan? I mean, I love Pedro (and never hated Clemens; I blame Duquette for his departure), but he undeniably threw at people.
Now Batting: A Stronger, Mandatory Helmet
Chris, I do appreciate your take, not to mention the time it took to bring up those numbers. Not all Red Sox fans are guilty of double standards, though during some of those earlier Joba threads it might almost have appeared that way.
That's an absolutely amazing stat.
People in Green Bay also think Lambeau field is better than Soldier field.
Any other breaking news, Kronkite?
My all-time Pedro brushback/knockdown was the one on Shemp in the 2004 ALCS. Unless I'm misremembering, Matsui was at that
point like .600/.800/1.500 for the Series, and then pretty much an oh-fer afterwards.
Maybe you oughta stick that one in your, ahem, video collection, Spanky? Maybe not.
Edit: Upon research, Matsui cooled down considerably, but not quite as drastically as I had thought, although he did go 1-10 in
the games 5-6. Pedro also hit Arod and Cairo in Game 5. Arod had been killing the Sox up to that point as well, then went ice cold
for a few years worth of postseasons, until his big 2009.
point like .600/.800/1.500 for the Series, and then pretty much an oh-fer afterwards.
I've got to be the only Yankee fan that 2004 doesn't bother one bit.
I actively loathed that incarnation of the Yankees. I especially enjoyed seeing the "Immaculate" Rivera cough up the series, after the continuous tongue-baths he had gotten. Not to mention Brown and Vazquez showing their true colors.
My only regret is that it wasn't the A's or some team I sort of like that did it to the Yanks.
pitchers were notorious pr1cks."
pitchers were notorious pr1cks."
Concur. Pedro's a prick, and should be viewed that way, just like Clemens.
The issue is the tendency to excuse the Red Sox pricks (Pedro, Manny) as "colorful" or "Manny being Manny".
No. They're ***holes just like the Yankee ***holes.
Let's just admit we root for the laundry, and will almost always excuse an ***hole on our team if he's good enough.
I know I enjoyed Reggie's home runs while vociferously booing his Ks, b/c I hated his guts.
In all seriousness I've lost this with age. John Lackey could throw 33 one-hit shutouts this year and I'll still hate him.
Clemens is an #######. Stipulated.
But what Marichal did is at least as bad.
Both at the time and with added hindsight, that was my least favorite Yankee team of the entire Torre era. The tiebreaker was Kevin Brown, who was the appropriate choice for the game 7 denouement. My only regret is that I didn't capitalize on my instincts and bet a thousand bucks on Boston.
All that's nice and nuanced, and I don't really disagree with those individual assesments, but you might want to ask some of Pedro's plunk victims before finalizing your thoughts on the subject of intentionally throwing at batters.
Yeah. Suuuuuuuuuuure. :)
I mean, c'mon. Your favorite team choked away its decades absolute competitive hegemony in spectacular, historic, mind-blowing fashion
to its laughingstock arch rival in the most embarassing, table-turning, come-uppance laden, huge-ass loss/biggest victory in American sports.
But it was something that doesn't both you guys, both of which are near nut-case, super-expert baseball fans.
Sorry. With all due respect, not buying it.
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