This is why we can't have nice things, Repoz.

More home runs and more rain during football games. Yea, that will spring the average sports fan into action regarding climate change.

Let's go Bears!!!

Oh dear god....what is this wet stuff falling from the sky?

I believe its called rain.

Why is it falling during this football game?

Because you drive a Hummer.

Why didn't I do something about this sooner! Now its getting all over me! AAAAHHH! WHY GOD WHY????

And how is snow in April and the last week of September going to end up helping sluggers?

I can picture Repoz cackling away evilly as he posted this.

I say the first page is all comments from people bemoaning the impending climate change thread.

I dare anyone to imagine football players running in slow motion through snow without thinking of this song.

There seems little need to counter the nonsense spewed by the climate change cultists anymore, as the world seems to be finally catching on to this particular brand of faux science charlatanism. Canada has pulled out of the new Kyoto, and it seems that Japan, Russia, the US, and even the EU will be following suit. In a down economy, rich corporations cut down on frivolous spending, and once-rich countries cut down on sending $100 billion around the world every year to satisfy the faith-based demands of a collection of unsavory religious hucksters peddling nothing more than a high brow confidence game while claiming to hold obscure specialized knowledge to the impending arrival of the next bogeyman. Their knowledge may be concocted from a mixture of thin air, whole cloth, and hide-the-decline emails, but, my god, it's all unfalsifiable, man.

Thankfully, the religion of the climate alarmists is fading, dying a slow, painless-for-most, painful-for-some, death. Their predictions have not been coming true, surprise, surprise. It's now been six years since a major hurricane hit the US, after we were told it was going to be happening over and over again. The life-is-good deniers are losing.

There, Repoz. Thanks for posting the link.

And...we're off!

It's now been six years since a major hurricane hit the US, after we were told it was going to be happening over and over again.

Don't jinx it.

There seems little need to counter the nonsense spewed by the climate change cultists anymore, as the world seems to be finally catching on to this particular brand of faux science charlatanism. Canada has pulled out of the new Kyoto, and it seems that Japan, Russia, the US, and even the EU will be following suit. In a down economy, rich corporations cut down on frivolous spending, and once-rich countries cut down on sending $100 billion around the world every year to satisfy the faith-based demands of a collection of unsavory religious hucksters peddling nothing more than a high brow confidence game while claiming to hold obscure specialized knowledge to the impending arrival of the next bogeyman. Their knowledge may be concocted from a mixture of thin air, whole cloth, and hide-the-decline emails, but, my god, it's all unfalsifiable, man.

Thankfully, the religion of the climate alarmists is fading, dying a slow, painless-for-most, painful-for-some, death. Their predictions have not been coming true, surprise, surprise. It's now been six years since a major hurricane hit the US, after we were told it was going to be happening over and over again. The life-is-good deniers are losing.

There, Repoz. Thanks for posting the link.

How much of that was tongue-in-cheek?

How much of that was tongue-in-cheek?

None of it.

How much of that was tongue-in-cheek?

As Dan says, none of it. But feel free to blindly follow the cultists, if that's what you need to do so that your world makes sense.

I dare anyone to imagine football players running in slow motion through snow without thinking of this song.

I can definitively state that about 6-8 inches of snow is the ideal venue for football. Growing up football was fun to play all-year round, but the season everyone looked forward to was winter. It takes a special skill to make cuts in snow half-way up your shins and you can hit as hard as you like, it's always a soft landing. Also it adds an extra layer of strategy. Do you go bare-handed and trade the use of your fingers in future years for better grip? Or gloves and limit yourself to simple passing plays. Or worse yet go mitts and resign yourself to an exclusive running game!

Canada has pulled out of the new Kyoto

To be fair the Environment Minister has claimed Canada is pulling out because an agreement that doesn't include the US and China is a waste of time, not necessarily that climate change isn't something to address internationally. Certainly Harper doesn't have a reputation for hugging trees, but I think there's more to the decision than the death of environmentalism.

If "Climate Change" benefits the hitters, then it obviously hasn't been happening lately. In case they hadn't noticed, offense has been trending way down the last few years.

Damn scientists! I mean cultists!

As Dan says, none of it. But feel free to blindly follow the cultists, if that's what you need to do so that your world makes sense.

I know you have felt it necessary to blindly follow the cultists in order for your world to make sense.

Post the north american temperature chart from the past +100 years and then post the MLB run scoring chart from the same period +100 years. Both charts have the same shape. Even the low run scoring environment during the late 60s aligns with cooler temps.

Fortunately, Zazzle.com offers a range of gifts for those convinced that global warming is a cult belief.

Ray is being intentionally inflammatory, but the reality isn't far off.

The facts on the ground are:

1) The earth has gotten slightly warmer in the 20th c., though not in the last 10 years
2) Nobody know why (could be manmade, or natural, or some of both)
3) The timing of the warming, increases, plateaus, etc. does not correlated well with human activity
4) Given current technology, the cost of attempting to stop the warming massively outweighs the cost of dealing with slightly higher temps
5) Many scientists and political motivated groups have tried to leverage alarmism about the warming to feather their nests, and enact their own anti-growth agendas

As an interested amateur, I think this is a helpful site; try to argue about this, at least in the threshold stage (whether it is "in fact" so or not), keeping poitics out of it

Fossil fuels are PEDs (QED). Therefore, players will no longer be allowed to use transportation that involves fossil fuels.* Or to play in arenas lit by fossil fuels.

* Not so fast Volt drivers - what produced the energy to charge your car?

As for man causing climate change. Man's CO2 output is responsible for way less than half of the warming that has been measured. Likely closer to 5%. That's not much.

4) Given current technology, the cost of attempting to stop the warming massively outweighs the cost of dealing with slightly higher temps

You forget the only tenant of liberalism.
"No problem is too small we can't fix at any cost"

Aside from a few tinfoil-hat types, there is pretty well a consensus among scientists now about manmade global warming. To deny it at this point is akin to denying the moon landing.

Now, that doesn't mean there isn't still a lot of stupid crap spewed by ignorant and/or agenda-pushing people, alamarists, etc.. but that's true of anything...

Listen to Exxon and ignore those evil scientists with their silly propoganda.

I was worried because I almost agree with Ray on the steroids thread (hey I said almost), but in this thread all is right with the world and I can be happy again. We need some Joey and GoodFace posts and perhaps a little SBB. Apologies if I forgot anyone or lumped you in indescriminatly.

Attempted thread jack - I find when I am reading BBTF I read the post, skipping over who wrote it. I often never look, but sometimes when I find it extra clever/stpuid/funny/etc I look. I am amused at how many posts I can identify before I look. Yankee Redneck is the easiest to identify, but there are others.

Do others also do this, or am I the only one?

Do others also do this, or am I the only one?

I sometimes do the opposite, and skim through to find posters I can usually rely on to be entertaining (sometimes even intentionally!)

6) Humans have released hundred millions of tons of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere that had been locked in the ground for eons.

You forget the only tenant of liberalism.

The rent is too damn high!

6) Humans have released hundred millions of tons of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere that had been locked in the ground for eons.

True, but the warming doesn't correlate well with that.

If you look at the graphs produced, even by the alarmists, you see flat temps from the 1880's-1920's. A rapid increase of approx 0.4 deg C from 1920-40, a slight decrease and then plateau from 1945-1980, another run up of 0.4 deg. C from 1980-2000, then another plateau.

Two forty-year long periods of massive industrialization showed no effect.

If you're going to argue causation, how do you reconcile that with a continuous increasing amount of CO2 emissions?

Aside from a few tinfoil-hat types, there is pretty well a consensus among scientists now about manmade global warming. To deny it at this point is akin to denying the moon landing.

A consensus! Wow.

Unfortunately for this silly argument, science is not up for a vote.

And even if it were, there are "scientists" who disagree. (Who are you counting as a "scientist"? Are they in the right field? Are they able to comprehend the issue? Are they affected by their own personal or political agenda, such as the hide-the-decline people?)

Some of this is like asking 100 practicing Catholics whether God exists. Again, it's a religion. And like all religions, the central claims ("God exists") are not falisfiable.

As Dan says, none of it. But feel free to blindly follow the cultists, if that's what you need to do so that your world makes sense.

I miss the good old days when dumbass religious adherents who found Christianity to be passé believed in crap like EST or Magic Healing Crystal Power and didn't insist they be given control of the economy.

I miss the good old days when dumbass religious adherents who found Christianity to be passé believed in crap like EST or Magic Healing Crystal Power and didn't insist they be given control of the economy.

These folks always wanted to control the economy. When Marxism didn't work out, they found ecology/climate change.

The old saw about hard core environmentalists being like watermelons is pretty much spot on. Green on the outside, Red on the inside.

You guys almost make cults sound like a bad thing.

A consensus! Wow.

Unfortunately for this silly argument, science is not up for a vote.

LOL

This is beyond preposterous. What *is* science, beyond the consensus opinion of the interpretation of the evidence by those who study it, ie scientists?

The people who make their living studying the issue have come to a general consensus, yes. That Ray from BBTF doesn't like their conclusion is immaterial.

This is beyond preposterous. What *is* science, beyond the accepted interpretation of the evidence by those who study it, ie scientists?

Just wait until you hear what they say is the motivation of scientists who are agreeing with climate change.

I miss the good old days when dumbass religious adherents who found Christianity to be passé believed in crap like EST or Magic Healing Crystal Power and didn't insist they be given control of the economy.

You were born before or after the "scientific" reform of the Poor Laws in 1830s?
I don't think anyone (religion, secularism, the 21st century) has a monopoly on true belief leading to misguided policy.

Did anyone see "Boss" on Starz? I thought it was quite good.

The earth has gotten slightly warmer in the 20th c., though not in the last 10 years

Wait, so the data posted at NASA's website are completely wrong? Most measures show the past decade to have been unusually warm, globally.

Though weren't NASA the people who sent Donald Sutherland to the South Pole in November 1963? So that Khrushchev and Jimmy Hoffa could kill Kennedy and embark on the massive re-education of the American public by flouridating our water and forcing us to buy weak lightbulbs MADE IN COMMUNIST CHINA I SEE IT ALL NOW :-D

* Not so fast Volt drivers - what produced the energy to charge your car?

Lightning Lad.

Unfortunately for this silly argument, science is not up for a vote.

When last I looked - it was a few years ago I admit - I did a literature search and discovered there were no - that's none, zero, nada, zilch - articles in peer reviewed scientific journals that went against the basic thrust of the basic tenants of climate change. There were plenty of arguments around the edges - man made or not, degree of change, predicted rates of change, impact of change. These are important, and even there the deniers make MUCH more of it than is warrented.

Scientists could make their careers if they could publish such articles. Publish or perish. And yet oddly they don't.

A final note. The "Big Oil" companies are investing tens (perhaps 100s) or millions of dollars in assuming that climate change is real. Don't believe me? Look up their plans for exploiting the famed Northwest Passage in future years. They are dumping a ton of money into infrastructure to utilize the fact that it is likely to be ice free more and more often in the upcoming years.

And yes this is the same big oil that dumps money into "scientists" preaching it is all a lie.

I get that the Lib V Con are suppossed to disagree on stuff, but sometimes it is silly. See the current tempest about lightbulbs, where because the evil 'D' party is in favor of one thing the 'R' party has decided it is evil and must be oppossed. Of course the major corps in the lightbulb industry are in favor of the regulations (which don't say what some people claim it says), but who cares.

And yes in the '70s the D party was more likely to be kneejerk, but lately it is the R party. A cycle I suppose.

I miss the good old days when dumbass religious adherents who found Christianity to be passé believed in crap like EST or Magic Healing Crystal Power and didn't insist they be given control of the economy.

Glad you didn't include astrology, or I'd have to point you to the '80's

Unfortunately for this silly argument, science is not up for a vote.

Whenever someone now says to me, "the science is settled", I remind them that a few years ago Pluto was a planet, and now it isn't.

And by the way, do you know how the decision was taken to make this change? A bunch of astronomers gathered together at a symposium and voted on it.

Aside from a few tinfoil-hat types, there is pretty well a consensus among scientists now about manmade global warming. To deny it at this point is akin to denying the moon landing.

My main argument with those arguing that manmade global warming is a serious problem is that they dramatically overstate their case. They have a case. Even a good one. But nothing close to what the sentence I quoted states.

In any case, there is science and there is policy. Science is never 100%. Policy is black and white. Therefore, anyone using science as the end all, be all of policy decisions will risk looking silly.

To me it boils down to this: while I'm not convinced man is the primary cause of the warming we've observed* continually increasing the level of CO2 in the atmosphere forever and ever doesn't seem a particularly good idea. Just as climate and atmospheric science is too complex for us to know with any certainty that man is the problem, it's very complexity makes our screwing with it a very bad idea. We really have no idea what increasing CO2 so dramatically will do, long-term. Say we keep going and get to 1000ppm CO2. What does that atmosphere do for earth? For humans? We have no idea. Therefore, since we're actually in pretty good shape with the levels we've had, why mess with it?


Finally, you often hear folks state that the warming we've observed is mostly natural (this happens to be where I come down) with a bit of man-made thrown in. But they state this as if it's a good thing. To me, the really scary scenario isn't that man has induced climate change (from which we might theoretically recover by changing our ways) but that it is natural and that the climate humans have thrived in is starting to change in dramatic ways, as it has in the past, and that there is absolutely nothing we can do to change it.

There were plenty of arguments around the edges - man made or not, degree of change, predicted rates of change, impact of change. These are important, and even there the deniers make MUCH more of it than is warrented.

No one is arguing that it's not warmer.

Those arguments "around the edges" are the important stuff.

The earth has warmed and cooled many many times.

Even if humans are causing it, does not necessarily mean we should do drastic damage to the economy to stop it.

Whenever someone now says to me, "the science is settled", I remind them that a few years ago Pluto was a planet, and now it isn't.

"Planet" isn't so much a science thing as it is a way to divide things. It was either 8 planets, with formation being the differentiation, or 13 planets, with size being the differentiation.

No one is arguing that it's not warmer.

Ray just did in #7, if you missed it.

And the Republican Party as a whole seems to have taken a position that it isn't happening.

To me it boils down to this: while I'm not convinced man is the primary cause of the warming we've observed* continually increasing the level of CO2 in the atmosphere forever and ever doesn't seem a particularly good idea.

I'm not as worried about CO2 as I am about wasting all of that extremely useful petroleum primarily for transportation purposes, but this is about where I come down.

Wait, so the data posted at NASA's website are completely wrong? Most measures show the past decade to have been unusually warm, globally.

Being warm does not necessarily mean getting warmer. We are at a local maxima, yes. But the graph you link shows a plateau in the recent past.

The earth has warmed and cooled many many times.

This is certainly true, and it usually had dramatic effects for human societies. All the more reason to be fully aware of any effect we have over climate. If things beyond our control are shifting all the more reason to try to mitigate the change rather than exacerbate it.