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1.UCCF posted on July 20, 2012 at 12:31 PM #hit 0 | hit 0
If you judge this trade on the number of Franciscos acquired, the Astros win this in a rout.
Like many things the Blue Jays do this seems odd but I'm sure that tomorrow we'll see then trade Brandon Lyon and David Carpenter for B.J. Upton or something.
5.Der_K posted on July 20, 2012 at 12:43 PM #hit 0 | hit 0
A rotoworld note on the deal had a typo calling it a 'ten team' trade. I was momentarily VERY interested.
Is like one of those baseball mogul trades where you swindle a GM out of a good player by giving him several craptastic players and a bunch of minor league guff?
Is like one of those baseball mogul trades where you swindle a GM out of a good player by giving him several craptastic players and a bunch of minor league guff?
OK but which one's the "good player"?
9.JRVJ posted on July 20, 2012 at 12:52 PM #hit 0 | hit 0
Doesn't seem like a huge, transcendent trade (other than in number of players being dealt), but I'm certainly not the most savy person on the talent involved.
10.RJ in TO posted on July 20, 2012 at 12:56 PM #hit 0 | hit 0
The Jays clearly win this trade by getting rid of Cordero.
11.KJOK posted on July 20, 2012 at 01:00 PM #hit 0 | hit 0
...Blue Jays made a 10-player trade with the Toronto Blue Jays on Friday.
If the Jays were going to deal prospects for arms, Wojciechowski and Musgrave were the right level of prospect. No, Happ's not likely to transition well to the AL East, but for the moment, healthy arms worth playing at all are few and far between in Toronto. A trade not likely to help much.....but a trade that should save Toronto fans from worse farm raiding and some painful MLB starts.
If the main point for Toronto was saving cash, does that mean they're going to take on salary in some other deal? This seems like a lot of work just to be able to upgrade from Joe Replacement to JA Happ and call up Travis Snider.
17.Eric P. posted on July 20, 2012 at 01:23 PM #hit 0 | hit 0
I....really don't get this deal for the Jays. OK, Lyon has more left in the tank than Cordero & Carpenter is an interesting live arm. Fine. It still doesn't explain that they seem to think J.A. Happ, he of the 76 ERA+ over the last two years, can help them in the race for the second wild card spot. This is like giving up a lottery ticket for a pack of bologna.
This sounds like the result of a GM drinking session to me
Wouldn't be the first.
20.zonk posted on July 20, 2012 at 01:29 PM #hit 0 | hit 0
I'm very happy about this trade -- I've been hanging on to JA Happ for some reason in my roto league and finally, now that he's in the AL, I can cut him loose.
This seems to make no sense from Toronto's perspective. Is this their "going for it" deal?
It doesn't even clear out space on the 40-man for another acquisition. In fact it adds to Toronto's 40-man roster. (Getting 3 players on 40-man in return for 2 such players.)
This is the mother of all "meh" trades. Neither team gains much nor loses much, despite the volume of players trading unis.
This is the mother of all "meh" trades. Neither team gains much nor loses much, despite the volume of players trading unis.
Is it me, or has this trading season been really disappointing from a rumor standpoint? The Red Sox/Marlins deal was interesting, but it had no legs from the start. Unless I just haven't been paying attention...
The new rule where if you hang on to your veteran and let him become a free agent, you get draft picks, but if you trade him and he leaves his new team, the new team doesn't get draft picks, can't be helping.
32.Dan posted on July 20, 2012 at 02:43 PM #hit 0 | hit 0
Obviously the Jays traded for Happ specifically to include him in a trade for Hamels, since Amaro will overvalue him as an ex-Phillie and as a guy who overachieved in Philly before going to Houston.
The new rule where if you hang on to your veteran and let him become a free agent, you get draft picks, but if you trade him and he leaves his new team, the new team doesn't get draft picks, can't be helping.
I think the bigger issue is the second Wild Card with a little helping of underachieving teams (e.g. Red Sox, Phillies, Tigers). The American League currently has seven teams within three games of that second WC. Conversely, a year ago the Yankees were the Wild Card leader and had a six game lead on the Rays at roughly the same point.
The National League is not as congested but still modestly more than it was a year ago. Right now there are three teams within four games of Atlanta for the second WC as opposed to last year when the Braves had a five game lead on Arizona and Pittsburgh.
I also think it's a bit early for the rumors to heat up. I suspect after HoF weekend we'll start hearing a lot more.
The mother of all meh trades, indeed. How on earth did this even materialize?
TOR: We want Happ!
HOU: Okay, give us Francisco and Codero.
TOR: Throw in Lyon!
HOU: Okay but give us Musgrove and Wojciechowski and Perez.
TOR: Throw in Carpenter!
HOU: Sure, if you throw in Rollins and a PTBNL.
TOR: Deal!
Seriously? This conversation actually happened?
35.Shock posted on July 20, 2012 at 03:04 PM #hit 0 | hit 0
This seems to make no sense from Toronto's perspective. Is this their "going for it" deal? Any of the prospects in any way decent?
This is a "dear God can we make it through the season" deal. They have been shuffling relievers up and down and literally calling up random arms from double A (yes, double A) that nobody has ever heard of. Brandon Lyon at least gives them a major league reliever who can plausibly be good. JA HApp gives them a player that is capable of starting, if not well, which is helpful since the Jays are practically pulling names out of a hat to determine who is going to start on a particular day. And then there's Cordero, who had to get as far away as possible (Houston does the trick,) before somebody shot him. So this accomplishes a few things.
I don't really think they are "going" for it, but SOMEBODY has to pitch in the next 60 games or whatever it is.
a couple of years ago I happened to be up in Pa near the trade deadline , and the afternoon idiot on WIP was BERATING Ruben Amaro for trading Happ to get Oswald.
Sure, most of Toronto's pitching staff is on the 60-day DL and they've used 26 different pitchers this year, but they've had a stable 5-man rotation for the last month. The problem is that those 5 men are Ricky Romero, Henderson Alvarez, Brett Cecil, Carlos Villanueva and Aaron Laffey.
If you think about the national debt and global warming and peak oil and overpopulation and a generation who are growing up watching the Kardashians then the future starts to look a lot like J.A. Happ.
I think Happ is a slightly better pitcher than his performance to date suggests, a cromulent four. The Jays could use that.
I may be the one of the few Astros' fan to have good things to say about Happ, but I think he has pitched fairly well this year, certainly a lot better than his ERA indicates. His velocity is up, he is actually striking out batters (8.5/9), and his walk rate is the best of his career. He used to be a pitcher who out performed his peripheral stats, and now he is the opposite, pitching below his peripherals. He can still be hard to watch because he throws so many pitches and can really slow it down with runners on base. But I don't think he is a bad gamble for the Blue Jays to take, considering he doesn't cost a lot.
I think this is a good trade for both sides. The Jays deal from a position of strength in their farm system, and the Astros get some promising prospects to add more depth to their farm system and accelerate the rebuilding process. Meanwhile the Astros didn't lose anyone that is important to even the near term future of the big league team.
45.Shock posted on July 20, 2012 at 05:29 PM #hit 0 | hit 0
And they are likely to stay that way for the short term - word is that Happ will go to the 'pen until one of the aforementioned starters implodes
I think the bigger issue is the second Wild Card with a little helping of underachieving teams (e.g. Red Sox, Phillies, Tigers). The American League currently has seven teams within three games of that second WC. Conversely, a year ago the Yankees were the Wild Card leader and had a six game lead on the Rays at roughly the same point.
I know I haven't been paying as much attention this season as I should, but, wow, I had no idea it had gotten that bad...
not sorry to see happ go and i bet he's really delighted to get the heck out of houston where he never wanted to be. he's the kind of guy who has a tough time adjusting to an umpire who doesn't give him the high pitches, but he strikes out more guys than i think he does.
lyon was being used as a ROOGY
carpenter lost whatever he had last year, maybe a new pitching coach will do it for him
- as for what we got back - another crappy OF? REALLY? coco cordero on his last legs? REALLY?
none of the minor leaguers looks like greatness, but yeah, i know, it's A ball and youneverknow. Asher W looks like a control pitcher, from his stats, and it will be interesting to see if the stros send him to lancaster to rot or just promote him to AA. the AA starters they have all look like shtt.
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1. UCCF posted on July 20, 2012 at 12:31 PM # hit 0 | hit 0OK but which one's the "good player"?
something seems redundant here...
That was my response too, I'm happy about the trade on that level.
The Jays now have 2/3rds of the Astros return for Roy Oswalt.
Happ looks like the type of pitcher who'll get lit up in Toronto.
An 8-year old would make that deal every time.
Wouldn't be the first.
I don't think that the Jays save money on this trade, do they?
This is the mother of all "meh" trades. Neither team gains much nor loses much, despite the volume of players trading unis.
Is it me, or has this trading season been really disappointing from a rumor standpoint? The Red Sox/Marlins deal was interesting, but it had no legs from the start. Unless I just haven't been paying attention...
I think the bigger issue is the second Wild Card with a little helping of underachieving teams (e.g. Red Sox, Phillies, Tigers). The American League currently has seven teams within three games of that second WC. Conversely, a year ago the Yankees were the Wild Card leader and had a six game lead on the Rays at roughly the same point.
The National League is not as congested but still modestly more than it was a year ago. Right now there are three teams within four games of Atlanta for the second WC as opposed to last year when the Braves had a five game lead on Arizona and Pittsburgh.
I also think it's a bit early for the rumors to heat up. I suspect after HoF weekend we'll start hearing a lot more.
TOR: We want Happ!
HOU: Okay, give us Francisco and Codero.
TOR: Throw in Lyon!
HOU: Okay but give us Musgrove and Wojciechowski and Perez.
TOR: Throw in Carpenter!
HOU: Sure, if you throw in Rollins and a PTBNL.
TOR: Deal!
Seriously? This conversation actually happened?
This is a "dear God can we make it through the season" deal. They have been shuffling relievers up and down and literally calling up random arms from double A (yes, double A) that nobody has ever heard of. Brandon Lyon at least gives them a major league reliever who can plausibly be good. JA HApp gives them a player that is capable of starting, if not well, which is helpful since the Jays are practically pulling names out of a hat to determine who is going to start on a particular day. And then there's Cordero, who had to get as far away as possible (Houston does the trick,) before somebody shot him. So this accomplishes a few things.
I don't really think they are "going" for it, but SOMEBODY has to pitch in the next 60 games or whatever it is.
"Happ is the future!!"
Boy, if you have to go to the Houston Astros because you need three major league pitchers...
And they are likely to stay that way for the short term - word is that Happ will go to the 'pen until one of the aforementioned starters implodes
If you think about the national debt and global warming and peak oil and overpopulation and a generation who are growing up watching the Kardashians then the future starts to look a lot like J.A. Happ.
I think they're just saying that because Laffey starts tonight.
I may be the one of the few Astros' fan to have good things to say about Happ, but I think he has pitched fairly well this year, certainly a lot better than his ERA indicates. His velocity is up, he is actually striking out batters (8.5/9), and his walk rate is the best of his career. He used to be a pitcher who out performed his peripheral stats, and now he is the opposite, pitching below his peripherals. He can still be hard to watch because he throws so many pitches and can really slow it down with runners on base. But I don't think he is a bad gamble for the Blue Jays to take, considering he doesn't cost a lot.
I think this is a good trade for both sides. The Jays deal from a position of strength in their farm system, and the Astros get some promising prospects to add more depth to their farm system and accelerate the rebuilding process. Meanwhile the Astros didn't lose anyone that is important to even the near term future of the big league team.
*gets hit in the leg by a come-backer.
I know I haven't been paying as much attention this season as I should, but, wow, I had no idea it had gotten that bad...
lyon was being used as a ROOGY
carpenter lost whatever he had last year, maybe a new pitching coach will do it for him
- as for what we got back - another crappy OF? REALLY? coco cordero on his last legs? REALLY?
none of the minor leaguers looks like greatness, but yeah, i know, it's A ball and youneverknow. Asher W looks like a control pitcher, from his stats, and it will be interesting to see if the stros send him to lancaster to rot or just promote him to AA. the AA starters they have all look like shtt.
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