I clicked TFA just to see what the trade would be and got:

So it would be Loney, De La Rosa, Webster and Sands to the Red Sox, and Gonzalez, Crawford, Beckett to the Dodgers. Maybe some other minor players are involved, maybe the Red Sox do eat some contract.

Reminds me of Costanza's "as I was lying in the puddle, I think I may have found a way for us to get Bonds and Griffey, and we wouldn't have to give up that much!"

I can't believe that someone is paid to suggest that this trade could happen in August.

He is also owed $127 million over the next six seasons, and there has been little indication that the Red Sox want to move him.

But, you know ... other than THAT ...

Do it, Boston. You got what are likely to be the best two years of this contract. Cash in the rest for some young talent.

In fairness, he's talking about the Red Sox dumping $57 M in payroll for 2013 and $260 M overall. They really couldn't expect much talent back in that scenario. Of course the Red Sox deciding to go with a complete rebuild and clearing massive payroll with nobody to spend it on ... and the Dodgers deciding to sink $130 M into Beckett and Crawford just for the glory of having Gonzalez ... both seem a bit far-fetched.

Do it, Boston. You got what are likely to be the best two years of this contract.

If this is the second best year Gonzalez has under this contract, that would be pretty shocking.

You may be right, Cowboy. I look at the walks and power and I don't feel like that's a guy I want to owe $127 mil.

I'm glad he's made it all the way to the midteens in home runs this year. Good for him.

You got what are likely to be the best two years of this contract.

And that's really saying something, since this is the first year of the contract.

Great idea Boston, you let the best 3B in the league walk (Beltre) cause you thought Youk was better, then traded him for beans when he could have proved perfectly useful, now people are actually thinking trading the guy everyone slobbered over for years is a good idea? FFS.

Guy slumped for all of 3 months and otherwise has been a very good defender and is a huge offensive prescence. But let's let trade that guy. And don't forget we also need to trade the best offensive player in the long long ago year of 2011 for Elvis ####### Andrus.

Crawford
Kalish
Ross
WMB
Andrus
Pedroia
?? Mauro Gomez ??
Papi...maybe..
Lavarnway.

Oh TEH FEAR!!

"Walks and power"?

Somehow .618 slugging (second half...you know post slump) isn't power.

We only count the second half now?

Salary relief is worthless if theres nobody else to buy.

And i would absolutely do ellsbury for andrus if they cant sign him in the offseason. The entire plan should be to build for 2014-17 now.

I doubt texas would do it.

Do it, Boston. You got what are likely to be the best two years of this contract. Cash in the rest for some young talent.

The Dodgers don't have any young talent. They've got Lee and (what's his name) who they wouldn't deal to the Cubs, and that's pretty much it. The Sox don't have anyone to replace him for 1B so the only way the deal comes close to working is those two for all of AGon's contract, and even then I don't see the Sox doing it since they're going to try to compete next year.

This is a pipe dream of LA trying to buy their way out of the hole McCourt dug for the team; they'll be able to do it in the offseason, but it won't save this season.

We only count the second half now?

I thought i was being kind by not quoting his entire career.

The entire plan should be to build for 2014-17 now.

Andrus is only under contract for two more years, so the Boston Royals would have to trade him after 2013.

Doesn't it seem very odd that Adrian hasn't hit for more power in Boston? He averaged 34 homers his last four years in Petco, a terrible place to hit, and he's not going to come close to that figure in either of his first two years in Fenway.

Great idea Boston, you let the best 3B in the league walk (Beltre) cause you thought Youk was better, then traded him for beans when he could have proved perfectly useful, now people are actually thinking trading the guy everyone slobbered over for years is a good idea? FFS.

No, they let Beltre walk because they could see that they could slot AGon at 1B longterm and then play Youks through to a transition to Middlebrooks. Beltre is probably going to have a harder time maintaining his value at 3B than AGon will at 1B. Let's not forget that in addition to the payroll flexibility AGon brought in 2011, they also got Swihart and JBradleyJr as compensation picks.

... And don't forget we also need to trade the best offensive player in the long long ago year of 2011 for Elvis ####### Andrus.

You mean the guy hitting .249/ .298/ .345 ?

How long do the Sox hold on to the dream that 2011 wasn't just a big fluke? I mean, do they rush to re-sign him this off-season? Hey, he could do it again...

Edit: Tom, my theory is that people (fans) only looked at the hit tracker distance of AGon's HRs, and didn't consider much else. I never got the impression that is shots to the opposite field were moon shots, and I don't think anyone considered that he'd loose more HRs to the monster than it created, and that the ones that didn't go over were hits his speed (and lack thereof) would turn into singles rather than doubles. Add in the pitching being better in the AL East and he's had to run around RF as well, and you've got a bit of recipe for something that looks like a decline...

But all of that could just be the booze talking.

Andrus is only under contract for two more years, so the Boston Royals would have to trade him after 2013.

if Andrus isn't the right guy, that doesn't mean Ellsbury on a big contract is, either.

This team is going to be bad again next year barring the same kind of free agent signings were all hating on right now. The best way for them to turn it around in the near future is to turn their tradable assets into players that will help them when their crop of top prospects are ready. I've got nothing against Ellsbury, but he isnt really a star and I dont want to see how his 30s look. If they can turn him into a young SS or pitcher, even better. I dont think thats being cheap on the Sox part.

This team is going to be bad again next year barring the same kind of free agent signings were all hating on right now. The best way for them to turn it around in the near future is to turn their tradable assets into players that will help them when their crop of top prospects are ready.

But they already traded their crop of top prospects for injured relief pitchers.

yea, so they need to start stockpiling more so they can repeat the process. Think about how good the Pawsox bullpen can be in 2015.

Rubby De La Rosa is better than anyone else already discussed. Starters who can throw 100 are few and far between.

But they already traded their crop of top prospects for injured relief pitchers.

And a slob 1B they want to rush out the door now.

Besides Ortiz, the player with the highest OBP on the Sox right is getting on at a pathetic .345. Pathetic in that that's the highest. of course, that's AGon.

Edit: Tom, my theory is that people (fans) only looked at the hit tracker distance of AGon's HRs, and didn't consider much else. I never got the impression that is shots to the opposite field were moon shots, and I don't think anyone considered that he'd loose more HRs to the monster than it created, and that the ones that didn't go over were hits his speed (and lack thereof) would turn into singles rather than doubles. Add in the pitching being better in the AL East and he's had to run around RF as well, and you've got a bit of recipe for something that looks like a decline...

People always forget (always!) that Fenway, despite being a high-scoring environment, is not a HR park. It's a ############# crazy doubles park. Not only that, but Fenway seriously suppresses HR for lefties - it's among the hardest parks in MLB for lefties to hit HR in.

Of course, Petco is even worse for lefties, but expecting a HR explosion out of Gonzalez with his move to Fenway probably wasn't realistic. He is 2nd in the league in doubles.

Edit: Tom, my theory is that people (fans) only looked at the hit tracker distance of AGon's HRs, and didn't consider much else. I never got the impression that is shots to the opposite field were moon shots, and I don't think anyone considered that he'd loose more HRs to the monster than it created, and that the ones that didn't go over were hits his speed (and lack thereof) would turn into singles rather than doubles.

He wasn't even really trying to hit HRs for the first half of last year. Just stroking the damn ball everywhere.

We only count the second half now?

In a world where we only count BB's and HR's, seems reasonable.

And a slob 1B they want to rush out the door now.

Who the ### is doing that? You are completely overreacting to some LA fan boy trade proposal, that has a negative probability of actually happening.

People always forget (always!) that Fenway, despite being a high-scoring environment, is not a HR park

Well, it's a good HR park for righties and, as you note, death on lefty HRs (unless they are dead pull or can go the opposite way over the GM).

Well, it's a good HR park for righties and, as you note, death on lefty HRs (unless they are dead pull or can go the opposite way over the GM).

If by good you mean average, then yeah. I think the HR park factor for RHB at Fenway is around 96-99 most years. I wouldn't call that a "good" HR park, but YMMV. It works out to be around a 94-95 or so HR park in general, which I wouldn't really call good either, but YMMV again. It's certainly much lower than you would think given how much of a hitters park it is.

Who the ### is doing that? You are completely overreacting to some LA fan boy trade proposal, that has a negative probability of actually happening.

When asshat fanbases rants start to coincide with management decisions (see Youkilis), I become leary of management doing anything right.

By the way, I noticed (not that Bailey covered himself in glory when he had his chance) tonight, if you're going to trade a 23 year old 107 OPS+ everyday RFer with a great arm, and one who had shown at least the potential for great defense for a ####### ####### RELIEVER....can you at least use said reliever as a ####### fireman instead of coming in with a lead???

People always forget (always!) that Fenway, despite being a high-scoring environment, is not a HR park. It's a ############# crazy doubles park. Not only that, but Fenway seriously suppresses HR for lefties - it's among the hardest parks in MLB for lefties to hit HR in.

Of course, Petco is even worse for lefties, but expecting a HR explosion out of Gonzalez with his move to Fenway probably wasn't realistic. He is 2nd in the league in doubles.

I don't know. It seems pretty reasonable to expect that moving from Petco to anywhere would make for a HR explosion, wouldn't it? Heck, Gonzalez hit 20 HR on the road to just 11 at home in 2010.

And you've seen Gonzalez's opposite field swing. If you had been watching him use that at Petco and racking up 30-40 HR a year, wouldn't you have guessed that he'd hit a lot of HR is Fenway?

It doesn't look to me like he's peppering the wall with would-be HRs. It looks like he's hitting a lot of balls that die short of the fence or scraping off of it.

I think the concern for Gonzalez is overblown. Yeah, it's possible he's falling off the face of the earth but he's only 30 and his 2011 season was pretty much identical to his 2007, 2008 and 2010 seasons. The "problem" is that he went bananas in 2009. If you accept that as a career year and expect him to be what he was in those other years he's fine.

That of course dismisses 2012. An issue that I don't think has gotten nearly enough play is the time he spent in right field. Forgive me for indulging in a little far away psychoanalysis but Gonzalez strikes me as a guy who benefits from some consistency. I can see a little Wade Boggs in him "oh, it's 6:36, time to run 4 wind sprints starting with my left foot touching the right field foul line" and change isn't going to help that guy. His season breaks down like this;

Opening Day - May 18: .273/.347/.422 - Not what the Sox are looking for but not an especially unreasonable slump by a star either.

May 19 - June 19: .234/.254/.364 - May 19 was the day he played RF for the first time and June 19 was the last time.

June 20 - Last Night: .350/.384/.552 - Sort of speaks for itself. Even a BABIP adjustment leaves those numbers looking pretty good.

Look, I'm not saying this is definitive proof that playing right field impacted Gonzalez at the plate but I wouldn't be surprised if it did. I can argue three possible reasons;

1. A proud guy, Gonzalez was simply uncomfortable showing up at the ballpark knowing he was being asked to do something he really was not very good at.

2. In his desire to be good in right field he spent time he would ordinarily spend working on his swing or offensive approach working on his right field defense.

3. The fatigue of running around the outfield took something out of him at the plate.

I'm not stating these as absolute facts, just throwing out some theories. I do think it's an issue that hasn't gotten the play it deserves.

I don't know. It seems pretty reasonable to expect that moving from Petco to anywhere would make for a HR explosion, wouldn't it? Heck, Gonzalez hit 20 HR on the road to just 11 at home in 2010.

And you've seen Gonzalez's opposite field swing. If you had been watching him use that at Petco and racking up 30-40 HR a year, wouldn't you have guessed that he'd hit a lot of HR is Fenway?

It doesn't look to me like he's peppering the wall with would-be HRs. It looks like he's hitting a lot of balls that die short of the fence or scraping off of it.

This, this, this one thousand times over this.

The Adrian Gonzalez currently playing for the Red Sox is not using the approach that made him the hitter the Red Sox traded for and signed to a $154M contract. He has completely changed his approach at the plate. I don't know whether he doesn't feel like he can drive the ball the same way with his shoulder or if he's simply trying to do too much or what, but he's not the patient power hitter he was. He's overly aggressive, he doesn't really look to drive the ball to left frequently, and he's mostly content to slap singles up the middle. It's a credit to his amazing hitting ability that he's actually had success with this new approach, but he's not a $23M/year first baseman if he's going to hit .300/.350/.480 with 20 home runs a year.

Thanks for the input, Dan. I haven't seen Adrian hit much since he went to the Red Sox, but his stat lines look like someone with a different approach at the plate. While his homers were down some last year, his batting average was a career high by far.

I also think there's an awful lot of sense in Jose's No. 29. There is a long history of players hitting better when moved to easier defensive positions, and worse when moved to tougher ones.

I really think that the Red Sox fans who don't see this as any kind of issue simply didn't have much firsthand experience watching Adrian Gonzalez on the Padres. I've been an MLB.tv subscriber for years, and I've almost always put some random West coast game on after the Red Sox game ends as I'm doing some reading and getting ready for bed. I've never watched 100 Padres games in a season or anything, but I saw a pretty reasonable amount of him in late night Padres games against the Dodgers, Giants, Rockies, etc. I simply don't think anyone who was familiar with Gonzalez from the Padres would deny that his approach seems completely different now.

... And don't forget we also need to trade the best offensive player in the long long ago year of 2011 for Elvis ####### Andrus.


You mean the guy hitting .249/ .298/ .345 ?

How long do the Sox hold on to the dream that 2011 wasn't just a big fluke? I mean, do they rush to re-sign him this off-season? Hey, he could do it again...

Why would Texas jump at this deal anyway? Andrus is a ~4 WAR player, is 5 years younger than Ellsbury, has no history of serious injuries, will be cheaper in 2013, and is under contract an extra year. I get trading him if they think Profar is ready to start, but they could almost certainly do better than Ellsbury.

JOse, I agree with your take regarding Gonzo playing RF. His numbers since he stopped running around in RF and got back to 1B are much, much better. Another brilliant Valentine idea that proved to be worthless.

I simply don't think anyone who was familiar with Gonzalez from the Padres would deny that his approach seems completely different now.

His approach has changed but he's still awfully good; .321/.382/.513 with the Sox. I think it is likely that next year will be somewhere between 2011 and 2012 rather than a repeat of 2012 and that's still a very good player. I think it's overly pessimistic to assume that Gonzalez has suddenly changed his approach, gotten worse because of it, and then will continue to to maintain that less productive approach. Whenever a Francoeur or someone like that gets hot we assume that he will return to his level given time, I see no reason that the same wouldn't be true of Gonzalez (or Pedroia or Lester etc...)

I really think that the Red Sox fans who don't see this as any kind of issue simply didn't have much firsthand experience watching Adrian Gonzalez on the Padres.

I think we think of it as an issue, but not such a worrisome one as it has been presented. The guy is having an off year, but it's not even as bad an off year as Ortiz in 2009, never mind a Tony Clark '02 or a Adam Dunn '11 etc (and whaddaya know, all 3 of those guys bounced back after that).

I do agree that the change in the 'shape' of his performance is an interesting and valid topic, as is his approach at the plate. But I object when the tone is all too often of impending disaster because he has had one 4/5 of a season with only a 113 OPS+.

Source: #Dodgers awarded waiver claim on Adrian Gonzalez. #redsox

https://twitter.com/BillShaikin/status/239056516336979968

I don't mean to say that Gonzalez is the same hitter he was in SD. Obviously he's hitting fewer HR for whatever reason when the change in ballpark would make you expect slightly more.

I simply don't think anyone who was familiar with Gonzalez from the Padres would deny that his approach seems completely different now.

I'm not that familiar with Gonzalez' approach in SD other than what I can read in to his statlines, where it looks like he was a more patient power hitter. Do you take he was taking bigger cuts in SD, or has made some changes to his stance/swing or pitch selection since arriving in Boston?

MLB Trade Rumors has Gordon Edes calling it a growing possibility that they work out a trade with LA.

BS Edes.

The only way this is happening is if the FO has decided they are blowing up the club and cutting of their faces to spite their nose. I'll check scores next year, but I doubt I follow very closely if they do this.

"Growing possibility"--that's a classic Edes term. The possibility could have grown from 1% to 99%, 10% to 11%, or by any other amount. No chance of getting that one wrong!

Link to the latest Edes story. Most is really nothing new except for this quote:

"I think something is happening, but I'm in a state of disbelief that it is," one baseball source said Friday.

At least with Gonzalez gone, it frees up first base so Youkilis can go back there and stay healthy while keeping his great bat in the lineup. So they've solved that problem.

That's new? That's not really anything.

At least with Gonzalez gone, it frees up first base so Youkilis can go back there and stay healthy while keeping his great bat in the lineup. So they've solved that problem.

No no..they move Papi to 1B so Youk can DH, building up the value of both to trade for Yuniesky Betancourt.

This can't happen because it would be so shockingly short sighted and foolish on the part of the Red Sox. It is simply too good to be true.

Could this be a matter of getting rid of a dissident?

Someone claimed Beckett.

Beckett was claimed...watch either the Sox eff this up or Beckett exercise his no trade.

Oh man, let him go!

watch either the Sox eff this up or Beckett exercise his no trade.

damnit forgot about the 5-10

I may be wrong but the 10-5 doesn't matter if the Sox simply let him walk. If they get so much as a box used rosin bags in return it's a trade and he can veto but I don't think there is any rule against a player being waived.