You should look at my first link in #125. It's Virginia that's moving away from co-ed servers...

The Arlington Diocese is not the only one in Virginia. The Richmond Diocese has always been much more liberal, although we did get a much more conservative bishop a few years ago. He has not, however, kicked out the female altar servers AFAIK.

I enjoyed 35 very much, even if she "missed the joke". So did I. But 35 was very funny.

Mama
Where's your little daughter?
She's there
right there on the altar.
You should never have opened that door.

1. The Hasid scandal should get more coverage, but with the Hasids you are talking about a crazy extreme fringe (a mainstream Jew feels a much greater degree of kinship with a Catholic than with an ultra-orthodox). The Catholic Church coverup was massive and permeated the Hierarchy of one of the world's great religions, and showed how ingrained horrific judgement can become even in those who dedicate their lives to morality. Evil flourished.

2. For me, the scandal in most need of far greater attention is the amount of rape and abuse endured by the brave women training to join America's military. And the steadfast refusal by our leaders to do enough to stop it and/or to prosecute the perpetrators and/or protect victims coming forward.

Priests raping children is one thing, the Church looking the other way and allowing it to continue, from fellow priests all the way up to the Archbishop and beyond, that's unforgivable. Then again, I would argue that a hierarchical culture that places priests above laymen, men above women, adults above children, and splits the body off as insignifcant in relation to the soul lays the foundation for such abuses.

It's inconceivable that anyone who gives a damn about the RCC would continue to minimize this worldwide atrocity.

2. For me, the scandal in most need of far greater attention is the amount of rape and abuse endured by the brave women training to join America's military. And the steadfast refusal by our leaders to do enough to stop it and/or to prosecute the perpetrators and/or protect victims coming forward.

It's been argued that the anthropological purpose of warfare is rape.

Your god sucks.

It's inconceivable that anyone who gives a damn about the RCC would continue to minimize this worldwide atrocity.

Please cite the posters who are minimizing the atrocity.

Your god sucks.

And that's why I love her.

Please cite the posters who are minimizing the atrocity.

The naked shouldn't lead the blind.

154. bookbook Posted: May 11, 2012 at 07:32 PM (#4129675)
1. The Hasid scandal should get more coverage, but with the Hasids you are talking about a crazy extreme fringe (a mainstream Jew feels a much greater degree of kinship with a Catholic than with an ultra-orthodox).

- mainstream jews, at least american ones, have incredibly more in common with other american mainstream atheists, christians, moslems, than they do with any other fringe "fundamentalist" group.

The Catholic Church coverup was massive and permeated the Hierarchy of one of the world's great religions, and showed how ingrained horrific judgement can become even in those who dedicate their lives to morality. Evil flourished.

- or they took John saying "love the little children" too literally, you know what i'm sayin...
trouble is that part of catholicism is "forgiveness of sin" which is understandable, but putting rapist priests where they can just go and sin some more without any real worry about mortal punishment - now THAT is what is unforgiveable.

but as we have clearly seen from, say, the sandusky scandal, or the hasid non-scandal (and why exactly is it that that partiocular group isn't getting any well deserved criticism about its racist attitudes) any group with power does what it needs to to keep that power and shut up or pay off the complainers.

2. For me, the scandal in most need of far greater attention is the amount of rape and abuse endured by the brave women training to join America's military. And the steadfast refusal by our leaders to do enough to stop it and/or to prosecute the perpetrators and/or protect victims coming forward

- some shtt different century/millenium

wasn't that long ago that rich men paid off parents of females they raped and/or impregnated
the old testament mandated that an unmarried female who was raped was punished by being forced to marry her rapist

look at all the modern "cultures" that kill or try to kill any female who is raped because SHE "disgraced" the family

The naked shouldn't lead the blind.

Let the record show that you could not* cite anyone in this thread doing what you suggest. That's fine, earlier I was going to rip into your asshattery, but then it occurred to me you might just be standing on a soapbox railing against people who aren't in this thread. If that's what you were doing, well, good for you. I'm glad this site could provide a platform for your rant you're aiming at the silent lurkers who do what you're complaining about. That's not asshattery, but it might not be what you were going for.

Good thing we cleared that up.

* I was going to say "would not", but I didn't want to accuse you of cowardice. If you are a coward, and refuse to defend yourself against my frightening request for specifics, you can take comfort in the benefit of the doubt. For whatever that's worth.

and why exactly is it that that partiocular group isn't getting any well deserved criticism about its racist attitudes

Partly because they are a small group of people who very largely keep to themselves, and nobody is really clamoring to open their community to become part of it.

Partly because their views only become public when there is friction with the larger world which causes them to interact. They are not going around broadcasting their view to non-believers because they don't seek converts and they really don't care what anyone else anywhere thinks about anything.

Partly because they are so obviously strange and alien -- even to the vast majority of Jews -- that nobody really cares about them or really wants to get to know them.

Think of it this way: The Amish could be the most virulently racist people on earth (I have no reason to believe they are at all bigoted), and nobody would really care because they are isolated, don't deal with outsiders if they can avoid it, and there are not large numbers (or small numbers or any numbers) of minorities pushing to become Amish or to develop commercial ties with the Amish community.

The difference is that the orthodox are in an urban setting and deal with the outside community much more than the Amish do, including at the voting booth and by seeking whatever government money they can for their schools and such. In Israel, they are a real problem in terms of taking large subsidies for themselves while contributing very little to society (since they all want to study Talmud and be above it all), while also being very disruptive at times because of their views. Of course, in Israel, they constitute a significantly larger portion of the population than they do here.

I do not see them changing, ever. They have held on to their ways and beliefs under the most astonishing pressure. If they weren't nutters, it would be a very astonishing and admirable accomplishment. The best we can hope for is to isolate them and their extremism, and keep them out of the public purse as much as possible.

Among my little group growing up, the refrain was "Hasidim? Yeah, ah see dem but I don't believe dem."

srul

so why do they tolerate child rapists? i mean, i understand it is against their beliefs to ?interact? with other people who don't belong to their sect, but why then don't they have their own system of policing rapists? i guess if it is a female child who gets raped it is her own fault, but what if it is a male?

i guess it's like us christians with the nutcase fundamentalists who want science removed from the schools and womens rights removed from the laws

In Israel, [the Hasidim] are a real problem in terms of taking large subsidies for themselves while contributing very little to society (since they all want to study Talmud and be above it all), while also being very disruptive at times because of their views. Of course, in Israel, they constitute a significantly larger portion of the population than they do here.

Funny you should mention that. This article just got posted online this evening:

Culture war looms as Israel pledges to end ultra-Orthodox military exemptions

Here's what taking "go forth and multiply" to heart can accomplish over half a century:

Israel’s first prime minister, David Ben-Gurion, granted military exemptions to what was then a group of a few hundred Haredi students, in part because it was assumed that their lifestyle would fade over time. Today, the ultra-Orthodox comprise one-tenth of Israel’s 7.8 million citizens, and 63,000 received exemptions for religious study in 2010.

so why do they tolerate child rapists? i mean, i understand it is against their beliefs to ?interact? with other people who don't belong to their sect, but why then don't they have their own system of policing rapists? i guess if it is a female child who gets raped it is her own fault, but what if it is a male?

i guess it's like us christians with the nutcase fundamentalists who want science removed from the schools and womens rights removed from the laws

That's pretty much it. Jesus creeps are hardly the only creeps out there.

so why do they tolerate child rapists? i mean, i understand it is against their beliefs to ?interact? with other people who don't belong to their sect, but why then don't they have their own system of policing rapists?

That's a very good question.

Why is there no vigilantism? If you're going to act like the Mafia, act like the Mafia.

Or at the very least, why don't they shun the abusers, like they do the victims?

That's a very good question.

Why is there no vigilantism? If you're going to act like the Mafia, act like the Mafia.

Or at the very least, why don't they shun the abusers, like they do the victims?

From the first article linked, apparently its a pretty big sin to falsely accuse somebody due to how insular the community is. Of course the community doesn't seem to see the cognitive dissonance of not expelling one who does such harm to individuals also hurts the community.

Secondly, some of the abusers are the very rabbis who hold significant power. You try to accuse a made man of diddling your kid, a made man that has money and influence in your gang, and see how far that gets you?