Friday, January 25, 2013
Posnanski reviews “Trouble with the Curve”
(joeposnanski.blogspot.com)
posted on January 25, 2013 at 03:29 PM by RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) to andres blanco, clint eastwood, films, hollywood, movies, posnanski, scouts, trouble with the curve
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426 comment(s)
Maybe the movie didn’t have enough of the invisible President bit?
In so, so, so many ways TWTC does a much greater disservice to scouts that it does to the stat people. Heck, it merely makes stats-people into unrecognizably cartoonish figures who hate baseball but want to work in it so they can take over the world with their baffling “batting average” statistics. Big deal.
But scouts … this movie was supposed to celebrate them. Instead it makes grumpy and unfunny old men* who have some sort of weird super-power ability to hear drifting hands. This is exactly the stale depiction of scouts that Moneyball did such a good job of lampooning in the first place….
But here’s the point: If you want to celebrate a scout, why wouldn’t you have him NOTICE all these things. This gets at the very heart of what scouts do. They watch the games. They talk to the players. They learn all about the families. They listen to the fans. If you are doing a whole movie about what scouts can tell you that computer can’t—this is very crux of the argument. One of my favorite scout stories involves a scout in Venezuela who saw a kid play. He was too small, he was too slow, he couldn’t hit a lick. But the scout loved him, loved him because he had these beautiful soft hand, the ball just stuck to his glove, velcro, and he had this marvelous arm and this wonderful attitude. The scout kept following around the kid—there was something about him.
He called the GM personally to plead the case. He said he only needed $5,000 to sign the kid. $5K. It was nothing. The GM said no. Kid can’t run. Kid can’t hit. Who cares about soft hands? The scout said, “Fine, I’ll put up the 5K myself and prove you wrong.” The GM was impressed with that and he liked the scout a lot and he said, “OK, fine, you can have 5K.”
The player turned out to be Andres Blanco—not a star, certainly, not even an everyday player. But the guy got 654 plate appearances in the big leagues, made some dazzling defensive plays and was one hell of a deal for $5,000.
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Page 5 of 9 pages
< 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 >This is the source of confusion...
I was referencing a Star Trek episode where I learned some stuff about REM sleep (Night Terrors). But since this is a thread about torture obviously Chain of Command came up - which by the way is a great episode, but does not feature REM sleep very prominently...except perhaps we can speculate that the Cardassians used some kind of sleep deprivation on Picard.
For me, the line is exigent circumstances. Torture *may* be permissible in a true ticking time bomb situation, but (a) that almost never happens in real life, (b) torture isn't necessarily the most effective way to get the info., and (c) even if you feel that torture is absolute necessary in that situation, you don't codify it and make it part of the standard procedures.
So I'm technically right -- that's the best kind of right!
The Four Lights reference is definitely from Chain of Command, though --- the lights in Night Terrors is one light circling another (so just two lights).
I can only think of that Cardassian as a frightened little child.
Most definitely. That's probably the greatest line in the entire show's history.
EDIT: a friend of mine once had a moment of serendipity that almost ruined a presentation he was making to some clients at work. After displaying the innards of some kind of electronic device to them he was re-assembling it. His colleague handed him the screws to put the facing back on. He gave him three even though the device required four. After the guy tried to convince him that there were in fact only three screws, my friend drew the connection to Chain of Command and belted out his best Picard impression with THERE. ARE. FOUR. SCREWS.
Unfortunately no one in the meeting was a Star Trek fan and they all just thought he was being a dick to his work-mate.
SIgh...
Another reason I'd never cut it as an executive... I'd have fired everyone in the room except your friend.
I heard "Star Trek" and "torture" and immediately went to Chain of Command. And now I'm confusing Night Terrors with whichever weird episode it was that had Data eating a cake made out of Troi during a dream state.
And then there was the episode where Riker had been captured and they were ####### with his mind to interrogate him!
There's also the one where that alien tries to convince Riker that it's 20 years in the future and he's his son.
Riker's brain must have been mush by the time all those people had finished ####### with it.
I assume Gary Glitter wasn't available.
When TNG started Ryker was actually supposed to be a pre-command version of someone like Kirk, that kind of went by the boards and his characterization IMHO became the weakest, most poorly conceived of any of the regulars (not Frakes fault as much as the writers/producers)- his behavior in the Cardassians torture Picard ep was atrocious, in a real military he'd have been court martial-ed and either demoted or drummed out entirely. Part of the problem was they couldn't shouldn't have kept his character there, the military is relentlessly up and out - the only realistic way they could have kept him and Picard on the same ship would have been to promote Picard to Admiral, and have him come back as a recurring character using the Enterprise (captained by Ryker) as his flagship.
Whattya want?
They kept pulling out the Captain's chair for Riker and he kept turning it down!
This is probably true, but I still love him in that episode.
My friends and I have a drinking game we do every Christmas where we watch random TNG episodes and drink whenever a character does something that is deeply characterstic (Data gives an ETA, Worf grinds his teeth, Picard has any number...the uniform tug, make it so, earl grey), one of Riker's was sitting or leaning in that way he does.
In the relevant scene Jellicoe (the guy who replaced Picard) called Riker into the ready room to chew him out for being highly unprofessional. Riker saunters in and my brother gives voice to the tense expectancy filling the living room by saying "if he steps over that chair to sit on it we drink". And his girlfriend - who isn't a Star Trek fan - asks, "why would he do that?" After which Riker promptly does his manly, and vaguely insubordinate step over to which the room explodes and my brother yells "Why WOULDN'T he step over the chair!"
And another holiday memory is forged.
The writers kept having to do that to justify him staying as second in command...
Absolutely disagree. Frakes is an awful actor, easily the worst on the show. At least in the running with Wesley. I don't think the writers helped him, but Patrick Stewart held his own with the same writers.
Link?
Speaking of torture, anyone see Unthinkable (2010), w Samuel Jackson? Interesting stuff. I'm reluctantly pro-torture in ticking time bomb scenarios, but otherwise am certain we have to resist its dubious comforts.
Edmundo, that's a fascinating take but one I simply didn't see at all. I felt no depth and no real sorrow in Murray's performance, and one key for me was the moment when he escorts her to her room, then leaves. The camera is stationed in the hallway outside her room, and shows Murray closing the door behind him. There's no hesitation, no longing, no flicker of -anything-. It was the briefest of moments, but also the most telling of moments. It revealed an empty, empty film. I don't think it's possible to have any regrets there and reveal absolutely nothing of those regrets or restraint. I just didn't see what you saw.
If you're still in the thread, can you point me to a particular moment or moments that support your thesis? I'm willing to be wrong, but I need something specific to go on.
Eh, Starfleet pretty clearly has massive scientific and exploratory responsibilities that for most of next gen were trumping their military ones. The ships were also expected to operate completely autonomously for months or even years- I could see how an organization like that could find value in keeping senior executive teams together when things are working rather than trying to push people towards new responsibilities.
Allow me to retrospectively caveat my statement that I have been a Bill Murray fan from SNL days. I was one of the few of my peers who thought that the show improved when Chevy Chase left and Murray took a prominent role.
bunyon, I think there's just as bright a moral line between 'captive' and 'non-captive'. There's a very different code when you have a captive entirely at your mercy, versus when you're aiming assault rifles at each other across an understood battlefield.
That's why, though, I focused on making bad movies solely for the cash rather than voice work, which isn't draining or distracting the way going off an spending 80% of your time making crap is
I think, if the other side has done something that if done by a nation state would be considered an act of war, you can consider yourself as it suits you to be in a state of war with that side. If North Korea had flown a dozen jets off an aircraft carrier in the North Atlantic and reduced the WTC to rubble, that act of war would create a state of war. There may be a subtlety to this I'm missing, though, based on legal doctrine.
Of course, that wouldn't have worked. Picard was never going to be an Admiral, nearly every vision of the future has him becoming an Ambassador. He was pretty emphatically not military minded through out Next Generation, which helps explain Riker's behavior when Jellicoe shows up and starts treating everyone like they are at war. I really wish they had had a Next Generation cameo some time during the Dominion War, it would have been really interesting to see the Enterprise crew under the duress of a losing war (sort of like the Enterprise-C episode, only in a non-alternate time line).
From a practical standpoint, the Enterprise is the flagship and given how often it's Captain goes missing/gets abducted/conducts an undercover investigation on his own, Star Fleet Command is probably pretty happy that the XO is an officer fully capable (so much so that they offer him his own command 3 times) of commanding a star ship for an indefinite period of time.
It has been argued before in other forums that torture of A-Q members elevated them from criminals to prisoners of war and A-Q to a nation-state-like entity. I'm sure members of organized crime or international drug cartels have been roughed up for information, but I don't know how frequent waterboarding is.
But yes, Riker is a terrible, terrible officer. Basically any time he gets control of the ship, he loses it to some two-bit force. Like the time a few Ferengi in some beat-up old Birds of Prey manage to take over the whole ship. While Picard is in the body of a child. Ugh.
More importantly, I suspect the Gilbert Grape duo (Depp and Di Caprio) are the two male actors we'll be talking about 50 years from now. The Good Will Hunting twosome, not so much (though both Damon and Affleck have done more directing, IIRC)
He hesitates when he's looking at her in bed, and then you see just a flash across his eyes when the door clicks locked. He might even "check" the door, if memory serves.
Whaddaya want, close-ups and swelling music?
DiCaprio often seems overmatched by roles. He's good as the juvenile lead, but that Charlie Brown head often seems poorly suited for meaty, adult parts (good in Catch Me, while in The Aviator I kept expecting him to trip over his pants legs. Has Depp been a serious actor in...forever? Paul Giamatti beats him sideways. Talk about a guy with no physical gifts, yet he's a star.
On youtube there's a comparable collection of Warf's (sp?) greatest hits, where TNG's security officer is overpowered by everyone and everything, including vaporous midgets.
@222: was there much discussion of the consequences of that? Fwiw, I wouldn't have tortured AQ, but I would have evoked the right of hot pursuit, even as I tried known members in absentia.
I'd prefer the comedic "boing-g-g-g" sound effect. Most movies would be improved through more liberal use of the comedic "boing-g-g-g" effect.
Other than that I agree with you and Edmundo, I haven't seen the movie in 5 years or so but your interpretation was mine as well.
And thus, a million creepy fanfics were launched.
There's even a trope on this subject. Warf is set up as the tough guy so you can give the villain of the week someone to mangle so they look badass.
Starfleet is also pretty small. I would classify it as akin to any smallish peacetime navy -- there aren't that many opportunities for promotion, at least prior to attack of the Borg and the war with the Dominion.
While this certainly applies to a lot of the show, especially early on, some of the episodes are pretty sophisticated. Chain of Command is quite good, the one where Picard learns the flute is fantastic. I mean, it may be that out of every season, you only get 5 or 6 good to really good episodes of TV, but that blows every other non-Deep Space Nine Star Trek show out of the water (watching Enterprise as we speak, my lord it's consistently terrible). Watching most Star Treks means letting your inner nerd out weigh your other TV watching senses.
Surprise....surprise......surprise.
Aside: Torture is bad and injures those who give it nearly as much as those who recieve it. It is wrong and generally not effective and basically never OK.
EDIT: Babylon 5 is the best sci fi show, and seasons 2 through halfway through 4 are the best run of sci fi TV ever.
TNG has some terrible moments and episodes, but part of the problem is that it isn't nearly as sophisticated as many of the shows that have followed it, both in terms of the writing and the effects. It's like comparing players across eras.
Well, compared to the modern aesthetic which is for every place in the future to look like it was built in the middle of a war zone. Why would you expect our material surroundings to look the same in 250 years? Anyone who watches "Lincoln" notices how much the built environment and material culture have changed in a mere 150 years. Besides, there are plenty of modern cultures that cultivate a minimalist aesthetic.
(Then again, I watch 1960s episodes of Doctor Who with cellophane and styrofoam architecture without batting an eye. Maybe it's because I'm an art historian, and am used to looking at visual art from a perspective that is not necessarily a contemporary one?)
Of course, I will always be able to enjoy watching it because it sunk its claws into me as a kid. I can understand people treating it objectively and finding it wanting...but at this point that process is beyond my capabilities.
Aside, of course, from season one, which remains unwatchable for even the most loving fan.
10 forward and their living quarters all seemed very sterile from the artwork on the walls to all the carefully placed artifacts Picard has in his room. Even when they went to planets, everything looked too neat and orderly, even on trips to "primitive" worlds. Everything LOOKS like a television set. I think this is the result of them cranking out a ton of episodes every year and not having time for detailed set design, but it's also emblematic of Roddenberry's utopian, but also kind of fussy, vision of our techno future.
Depends on what you are looking for. If you are looking for a space traveling sci-fi fix, Next Generation, in comparison with what else is available, stands up well. There are only so many times you can rewatch Cowboy Bebop, Firefly, or Deep Space Nine. I would never recommend Next Generation to some one who wasn't willing to make concessions to watch sci-fi.
Original excepted, because it can't be compared by me - to much timelining required.
No kidding about the timelining. I've sat through maybe a dozen of them so far and I can't for life of me see what people enjoy about it. Spock is the only well acted or mildly interesting character on the show. Kirk is a ####### putz, and Shatner is a horrible actor. And I like some of the movies (II, III, IV) but I have yet to connect with the show. I will keep trying as long as I remain unemployed though.
EDIT: Babylon 5 is the best sci fi show, and seasons 2 through halfway through 4 are the best run of sci fi TV ever.
Interesting. I liked it as a kid, but haven't gone back to it. I assumed it wouldn't hold up well, in part because of the other things I liked at that age. As for best run of sci fi TV ever, that's a mighty tall bar to clear (Seasons 3-5 of DS9 and the first two seasons of Battlestar come to mind). I'll have to revisit it when I can and see if I get a similar level of enjoyment.
It's a good show despite some flaws because they tell good stories. One of my favorite sci-fi movies is still The Last Starfighter and I could do better graphics on my computer here at work. If the story is good, the bells and whistles don't matter so much. It's what's so frustrating about George Lucas, of course.
Surprise....surprise......surprise.
Life comes full circle. One of the crazy rumors in the late 60s that spread was that Jim Nabors married Rock Hudson. Of course, Hudson was the all-American macho leading man in those days. Maybe there was something to that craziest of rumors.
The problem with Lucas is that he seems more interested in creating characters that he can sell to kids that actually create ones that have any sort of "questionable" character. This is reflected in all the tinkering he has done in the original 3 movies such as changing the sequence of who fired first between Solo and Greedo.
In fairness to Worf, I'm not sure exactly how I'd fight one of those, either.
You misspelled "The Prisoner".
*I've since grown up and, you know, discovered women
Isn't the incentive by the torturee to give false info to stall time just enough for his plan to succeed? I don't see how torture is any more effective under that scenario.
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