Speaking of rules, I've asked this before, and there was probably an obvious answer, but I've always wondered about a player doing the following:

Runner on 3rd, less than 2 outs, tie game, bottom of the ninth. Sac fly wins the game.

Deep flyball to the outfield, the game will apparently end whether or not the fielder makes the catch. So the fielder does this: instead of catching the ball, he immediately juggles it, bouncing it between his glove and his bare hand. And continuing to juggle the ball, he simply strolls in towards the infield. The runner can't tag up yet, because no out has been recorded.

I mean, I'm sure if it happened, the loophole would be closed immediately. But could you get away with it once?

Deep flyball to the outfield, the game will apparently end whether or not the fielder makes the catch. So the fielder does this: instead of catching the ball, he immediately juggles it, bouncing it between his glove and his bare hand. And continuing to juggle the ball, he simply strolls in towards the infield. The runner can't tag up yet, because no out has been recorded.


I mean, I'm sure if it happened, the loophole would be closed immediately. But could you get away with it once?

The loophole was closed long ago. The runner can leave as soon as the fielder touches the ball, not when he catches it.

Back in the early days, the rule did indeed require possession, and one outfielder (I believe King Kelly, because he specialized in #### like that, God bless him), would do just as you said, intentionally juggling the ball while he jogged toward the infield.

Speaking of media guys, I truly detest our local D.C. sports media with just about every fiber of my being. This may very well be the best baseball team this city has had in about three generations, and the only thing these guys want to talk about is the 12 or so meaningless snaps that Robert Griffin III will be taking in the Redskins first meaningless preseason game tomorrow.

I'm not saying they shouldn't talk about the Redskins at all (yeah right), but it sure would be nice if this team was treated as more than just a distracting side note. They're getting more attention nationally now than they are in their own town, and it just drives me up the freaking wall.

Yup, there's no open loophole there. A few years ago I saw Brandon Moss do that (unintentionally). The announcers educated the audience about the specifics of the rule.

Just me $.02, but I think that if an outfielder lands outside the fence, it should be ruled a home run even if the ball was caught.

Anyway, I wanted to hijack this thread for something bothering me since Trout robbed Hardy earlier this year. Here's the Trout catch.

Now I remember that in 2010, Nyjer Morgan made a nearly identical catch at nearly the identical location at Camden Yards. Morgan's catch.

In my opinion, Morgan's catch was better but YMMV. Yet people act as if nothing like Trout's catch had ever been done before, when I think it had.

Speaking of media guys, I truly detest our local D.C. sports media with just about every fiber of my being. This may very well be the best baseball team this city has had in about three generations, and the only thing these guys want to talk about is the 12 or so meaningless snaps that Robert Griffin III will be taking in the Redskins first meaningless preseason game tomorrow.

Dear god I could not agree with this more. I mean, let's not kid ourselves: sportstalk radio isn't exactly a haven of intelligent thought and conversation anyway. But it is usually the way I fill the drive time on the way to work and back, lunch, going to court etc...and it's actually beginning to feel like some sort of weird performance-art joke the way the only two sportstalk stations in the DC focus on the most ridiculously minute trivialities concerning the preseason of a team that, as one of the radio guys admitted the other day, will be lucky to win FIVE GAMES this season. Meanwhile, literally the only time the 1st place Nats get mentioned for a five-minute repetitive conversation about "should they shut Strasburg down?!??" (NEWSFLASH: There are other interesting subjects to talk about w/r/t this team.)

106.7 WJFK is truly terrible in this regard. It's the official Nationals station (broadcasts their games), and yet every show is geared towards the Redskins. It's particularly insulting in the afternoon with "LaVar and Dukes," namely former Redskin LaVar Arrington and some guy...their lack of interest in any sport except football is practically BUILT IN to the concept of the show.

That said, the Washington Post has been pretty good about their Nats coverage this season. Boz is in fine form, they have a sharp beat writer (Adam Kilgore) on the team, and the Nats Journal blog is constantly updated and fairly interesting.

EDIT: One tiny thing I have noticed that I like: all of my favorite DC political reporters (both partisan and MSM) are obviously huge Nats fans, as evidenced by their Twitter feeds...every night at around 7:00PM or so their tweets change over from "here's the latest analysis of polling data" to "ZOMG DID YOU SEE WHAT ADAM LAROCHE JUST DID." I like that.

Neither of those catches is as good as Otis Nixon's against Andy Van Slyke.

It's particularly insulting in the afternoon with "LaVar and Dukes," namely former Redskin LaVar Arrington and some guy

Not Elijah Dukes?

Not Elijah Dukes?

See, now I would listen to that.

Anyway, I wanted to hijack this thread for something bothering me since Trout robbed Hardy earlier this year. Here's the Trout catch.

Now I remember that in 2010, Nyjer Morgan made a nearly identical catch at nearly the identical location at Camden Yards. Morgan's catch.

In my opinion, Morgan's catch was better but YMMV. Yet people act as if nothing like Trout's catch had ever been done before, when I think it had.

It's always like that when a player makes that type of catch. They're excellent, difficult, and spectacular to watch of course but somehow people forget that they've seen the exact same catch made a bunch of times before.

Random thing I've wondered before: What's Torii Hunter's reputation and GG collection like if the Metrodome had 10 ft. high walls? A significant part of his reputation came from robbing home runs/near home runs and the Metrodome was the perfect park to display that particular skill because the CF wall was pretty short.

Eso -- have you actually HEARD them talk Nats? If you have, it's like that "Lousy food, but such small portions" joke.

That said, the Washington Post has been pretty good about their Nats coverage this season. Boz is in fine form, they have a sharp beat writer (Adam Kilgore) on the team, and the Nats Journal blog is constantly updated and pretty interesting.

Agree totally. And Amanda Comak at the Times does a pretty good job as well.

I suspect that the only way the predominant sports coverage around here might ever change for the better is if one of the other teams like the Nationals or Capitals can win a championship. Until that happens, the memories of the Gibbs era combined with Dan Snyder's massive fortune and ruthless, endless propaganda will probably keep things locked in place the way they are.

Eso -- have you actually HEARD them talk Nats? If you have, it's like that "Lousy food, but such small portions" joke.

Oh yeah, I have. That's part of my disgust, and what I was sort-of implying with "LaVarr and Dukes" -- it's so obvious that these football guys don't even have the slightest bit of interest in baseball, or depth of knowledge about the sport.

And yet it's literally the only thing worth talking about sports-wise in Washington, DC. (N.B.: Hockey is for Canadians and pussies, but then I repeat myself.)

The runner can leave as soon as the fielder touches the ball, not when he catches it.

In our intramural (work) softball playoffs last year, I tried this on our ump -- this guy is somewhat random on getting strikes, tags, forces called correctly but he does know the rulebook and doesn't like to be questioned.

Runner on first, line drive off the pitcher's glove and the ball was gloved at the 2B's shoetops. Whether the ball hit the ground first was really hard to tell. Our guy had taken off and was doubled at first.

After the discussion about the catch settled down (the ump swore he was watching the ball all the way and the 2B did indeed catch it), I then inquired about our guy not leaving 1B until the ball the hit the pitcher's glove -- this is a can't move until the ball goes by the plate. The ump said no, he was watching the runner the whole way ... :)

I suspect that the only way the predominant sports coverage around here might ever change for the better is if one of the other teams like the Nationals or Capitals can win a championship. Until that happens, the memories of the Gibbs era combined with Dan Snyder's massive fortune and ruthless, endless propaganda will probably keep things locked in place the way they are.

Isn't one of the sports talk stations owned by Snyder? If so, fat chance on that station.

I don't even think a championship is necessary. If one of the teams can make a deep run into the playoffs (ie: even a close NLCS loss), I think it could sway things. The Caps seemed on the verge of making the leap, but their playoff flameouts really killed that... combined with last season's crapshow.

Can't let Buhner not get his chops....

Sorry but isn't the Chavez catch the best ever when you consider everything (time of year, game saving)?

Neither of those catches is as good as Otis Nixon's against Andy Van Slyke.

Indeed. I guess I was spoiled by a decade of Andruw, but Bernadina's catch here is...nice? More than decent? Spectacular is not the right word for sure.

Related to nothing, Carpenter says "are you kidding me?" way too often. Like twice a game.

When Dan Reeves does football on the radio, he describes something as "unbelievable" on almost every play.

Now I remember that in 2010, Nyjer Morgan made a nearly identical catch at nearly the identical location at Camden Yards. Morgan's catch.

In my opinion, Morgan's catch was better but YMMV. Yet people act as if nothing like Trout's catch had ever been done before, when I think it had.

The ball is hit in about the same place, but Morgan's is less...I don't know, *physically* impressive because he uses the wall to get his height, Trout just elevated.

Just got back from lunch. As I was turning on the car, the WJFK radio host was talking to Nationals GM Mike Rizzo. First question? "What can you tell me about the excitement around here for RGIII's first Redskins preseason game?"

Can't make this stuff up, folks.

Just got back from lunch. As I was turning on the car, the WJFK radio host was talking to Nationals GM Mike Rizzo. First question? "What can you tell me about the excitement around here for RGIII's first Redskins preseason game?"

Are you ####### serious?

While I know it wouldn't happen, I'd love to see Rizzo simply hang up on the guy right there.

When the 1st place Yankees came to DC to play the 1st place Nationals, the leading sports talk radio station devoted far more time to the possible impact of Peyton Manning renting Redskin Coach Mike Shanahan's house back in Denver.

When the 1st place Yankees came to DC to play the 1st place Nationals, the leading sports talk radio station devoted far more time to the possible impact of Peyton Manning renting Redskin Coach Mike Shanahan's house back in Denver.

This would be funny if it were a joke. The fact that it's not a joke, but actually true, makes it downright offensive.

In the XBL, all home run fences are replaced by obstacle courses and all batted balls can be caught for an out.

Bryce Harper would become a hero among DC fans for the rest of his life if he gave a pithy, "clown question, bro"-like indictment of Redskins-centric Washington sports talk radio.

Just got back from lunch. As I was turning on the car, the WJFK radio host was talking to Nationals GM Mike Rizzo. First question? "What can you tell me about the excitement around here for RGIII's first Redskins preseason game?" Can't make this stuff up, folks.

That is such a total dick move it really is almost comical.

Just got back from lunch. As I was turning on the car, the WJFK radio host was talking to Nationals GM Mike Rizzo. First question? "What can you tell me about the excitement around here for RGIII's first Redskins preseason game?" Can't make this stuff up, folks.

That is such a total dick move it really is almost comical.

The proper response would be, "Nothing, I'm too busy building a playoff team, which the Redskins haven't had since Zombie Joe Gibbs left town."

I suspect that the only way the predominant sports coverage around here might ever change for the better is if one of the other teams like the Nationals or Capitals can win a championship. Until that happens, the memories of the Gibbs era combined with Dan Snyder's massive fortune and ruthless, endless propaganda will probably keep things locked in place the way they are.

When I was 7, and again when I was 11, I did not have to go to school for a day because my parents took me to watch the Redskins super bowl parade.

I got out of school because the Redskins were so awesome.

And a zillion other kids around here had that same experience. The Nats are great, and I'm really enjoying them, but they haven't actually been to the playoffs since the 20's or whatever. The Caps are "chokers". I've heard rumors of a basketball team around here, but I don't believe them.

It's going to take a long time to break the Redskins stranglehold on the sporting landscape around here.

When I was 7, and again when I was 11, I did not have to go to school for a day because my parents took me to watch the Redskins super bowl parade.

We are apparently the exact same age and had the exact same Redskins experiences. You from the MD side or the VA side?

Wow...exactly on cue, here's LaVar Arrington with the top headline in the WaPo Sports section this afternoon: Arrington: RGIII's debut bigger than Strasburg's.

You see why the WJFK radio guy thought, in all seriousness, that the best question to ask Mike Rizzo out of the gate today was about how excited he was for a stupid REDSKINS preseason game? This is the media market we're dealing with.

Actually, the unspoken truth as to why the Redskins coverage is so overwhelming around this area -- even when it becomes ridiculous in light of the Skins' guaranteed awfulness this year and the Nats undeniable impressiveness -- is because IT SELLS, and it sells because it's a matter of demographics: the DC area is heavily African-American, they listen to sports radio in much greater proportionate numbers than other demos, and they care far more about football, on average, than they do about baseball. Really, it's about giving the listeners what they want. It just doesn't happen to be what I want.

The Nats are great, and I'm really enjoying them, but they haven't actually been to the playoffs since the 20's or whatever.

I beg your pardon? That would be difficult for a franchise that started in 1969.

Why would someone in DC care what the Montreal Expos did?

The Washington Professional Baseball Team hasn't been to the playoffs since 1933.

You from the MD side or the VA side?

Virginia till 99, then chicago till 04, New York till 09, then back here.

I beg your pardon? That would be difficult for a franchise that started in 1969.

Come on dude. Seriously?

Neither of those catches is as good as Otis Nixon's against Andy Van Slyke.

man, i remember that game. it was a real wow! moment. wasn't it a 1-0 game and the only hit the braves had was a dinger? well ... i'm trying to remember!

The Washington Professional Baseball Team hasn't been to the playoffs since 1933.

This is true, but that's not what was said. The Nats haven't been to the playoffs since 2005.

Come on dude. Seriously?

Yes, seriously. You can't pretend that this franchise has anything to do with the heritage of the Minnesota Twins.

Fra paolo, what was said wasn't "this franchise", it was "they". And nobody in Minnesota cares about the heritage of the Washington Senators either. You sound like a pedantic buffoon.

A Washington MLB team hasn't been to the playoffs since 1933.

Fixed. (Remember, the Homestead Grays called Washington a semi-home.)

The whole "legacy" thing with the Nationals (and D.C. baseball) is obviously complicated. The team recognizes that, and in various ways honors the Expos, the Senators, and the Greys. And yet at the same time, due to the total crappiness of Senators II followed by the generation-long+ absence of baseball from the city, it's almost as though the team doesn't have a true local legacy at all. This is part of why it's so frustrating that they continue to get so little attention from the local image-makers, even as it looks more and more like they might finally be building a pretty special team here.

You can't pretend that this franchise has anything to do with the heritage of the Minnesota Twins.

You've convinced me. I'll go up to Baltimore and reminisce about Otto Graham and Bernie Kosar.

The whole "legacy" thing with the Nationals (and D.C. baseball) is obviously complicated. The team recognizes that, and in various ways honors the Expos, the Senators and the Grays. And yet at the same time, due to the total crappiness of Senators II followed by the generation-long+ absence of baseball from the city, it's almost as though the team doesn't have a true local legacy at all. This is part of why it's so frustrating that they continue to get so little attention from the local image-makers, even as it looks more and more like they might finally be building a pretty special team here.

And the "Nationals" name not only is a tribute to what the Senators used to be called, but derives from the 1860s Washington team that was one of the powers of the pre-professional era. (In fact, the first D.C. team with that name, in the late 1850s, was comprised largely of government workers, something I'm certain many federal employees would appreciate.)

man, i remember that game. it was a real wow! moment. wasn't it a 1-0 game and the only hit the braves had was a dinger? well ... i'm trying to remember!

Yes. David Justice had put the Braves up 1-0 on a solo shot. Van Slyke drove a ball to deep RCF at the old AFCS. Nixon ran a mile into the gap, timed it, leaped the equivalent of Trout's leap to get halfway up the 14 foot wall, planted his left leg on the padding and leapt a second time off the wall itself and pulled back what would have been a game tying HR.

It was the best OF play I've ever seen, inclusive of Andruw Jones' original "Spiderman" catch against deep CF wall at the Ted.

Was there ever another angle shown? Otherwise, there is a chance Bernadina didn't actually catch it. From that view, it could have plausibly bounced against the wall in the blind spot. But I'm guessing someone would have seen it if he in fact didn't catch it.

Fra paolo, what was said wasn't "this franchise", it was "they". And nobody in Minnesota cares about the heritage of the Washington Senators either. You sound like a pedantic buffoon.

a) Not being from Montreal (or Canada for that matter, although I am currently residing there, and will probably be leaving in the next year or two), I was nonetheless an Expos fan. So I sound like someone who wants to respect the impoverished legacy of Nos Amours.

b) Defying his reputation around here, Joey B's being very diplomatic. He's also right. What the current Nationals ought to represent is a new start for Washington baseball, a franchise whose Year Zero in 2005 has little to do with Expos, Greys, Twins or Rangers. It makes no sense to connect them more than tenuously to Washington's American-League baseball heritage. This is a National League team. It's currently a really exciting team, with a lot of attractive players going for it. Why on earth would one want to attach them to some sad-sack AL franchise whose main claim to fame is trying to sign Gore Vidal's first (and probably last) love?

That Washington American League franchise's main claim to fame is Walter Johnson.

Why on earth would one want to attach them to some sad-sack AL franchise whose main claim to fame is trying to sign Gore Vidal's first (and probably last) love?

But in a conversation about why the Nationals do not have the same market penetration as the Redskins, it is not helpful to pretend as though 2005 was the first time there was baseball here. This area has had a baseball team for longer than it hasn't had one, and the historic awfulness of those teams for many years is part of what led to the current Redskins domination, and much more relevant to the discussion than anything the Expos did.

Believe it or not, there are plenty of people around here who remember the Senators. Frank Howard is still a beloved local figure. I refuse to accept that the Minnesota Twins have any right to the memory of Walter Johnson.

While there is no team in Montreal, I like the Nationals honoring Andre Dawson and Gary Carter. If the Expos are ever resurrected, those memories and retired numbers go back to Montreal, where they belong.

Edit- I'll give some wiggle room for, say, the A's claiming Connie Mack or the Dodgers claiming Jackie Robinson. But a team changing its name when it moves is a clear attempt to divorce itself from its history, especially in this case where the name was deliberately chosen to associate it with the former franchise.

Edit- I'll give some wiggle room for, say, the A's claiming Connie Mack or the Dodgers claiming Jackie Robinson. But a team changing its name when it moves is a clear attempt to divorce itself from its history, especially in this case where the name was deliberately chosen to associate it with the former franchise.

I basically agree with you, but it should be pointed out that it would have been nonsensical for a Washington team to retain the name of the Expos, since that name itself was chosen (inexplicably) to associate the Montreal franchise with Expo '67 (the World's Fair).

Then again, we do have the Utah Jazz and the L.A. Lakers.

No acrobatics? No juggling? Not even a dive? Call me when an outfielder channels a jester.

Yes. David Justice had put the Braves up 1-0 on a solo shot. Van Slyke drove a ball to deep RCF at the old AFCS. Nixon ran a mile into the gap, timed it, leaped the equivalent of Trout's leap to get halfway up the 14 foot wall, planted his left leg on the padding and leapt a second time off the wall itself and pulled back what would have been a game tying HR.

It was the best OF play I've ever seen, inclusive of Andruw Jones' original "Spiderman" catch against deep CF wall at the Ted.

It was also in the heat of a pennant race just when the Braves had started to get good. Another good one was Devon White's shoulda been a triple play in the World Series.