flip

I don't think people have necessarily soured on Gay, it's just that he is (and has been) just a slightly above average player. Then taking into account his salary, a not so hot commodity to have in my opinion.

Then taking into account his salary, a not so hot commodity to have in my opinion.

Indeed, which is why I cringed when hearing rumors of Gay to Phx for Dudley and more.

This is good for the Pistons, right? Seems really good.

I'm not sure why Detroit re-upped Prince in the first place - I guess it wasn't that expensive. Calderon is just an expiring to them I guess, but they really have a jam at that 1 spot for now.

I laughed:

Bill Simmons ?@BillSimmons
2013's best sports moment: Automated Hollinger saying Human Hollinger's trade w/ Toronto made Toronto 6 wins worse. http://es.pn/TZ1pY4

Why does Memphis want Ed Davis? Nice player, but not much better than Darrell Arthur, and they have Z-Bo and Gasol as starters.

Heh:

"Their offense hasn't changed, their defense," James said of the Nets on Wednesday. "They just picked up the intensity level. You can tell that they like to play for P.J."

"It sucks that Avery (Johnson) had to take the hit of them not wanting to play at a high level," James added.

I think Prince is a really good fit, assuming he's halfway the player he used to be. I don't know because really, who watches Detroit basketball these days. Having a 3rd good big is a nice luxury too, especially since the other two have had some health issues.

I'm not sure why Detroit re-upped Prince in the first place - I guess it wasn't that expensive. Calderon is just an expiring to them I guess, but they really have a jam at that 1 spot for now.

A lot of fans have given up on the idea of Brandon Knight as a 1. Not sure what the team feels.

I may be in the minority on this one, but I like the trade for Toronto. Even though people have soured on Gay because he isn't the best player on the team and makes a ton of money, I still think he is closer to a star than anything Toronto has. Also, Jalen Rose made the point that he plays with two low post bigs in Memphis, which contributes to his somewhat inefficient shot selection (more long twos, harder to drive with two defenders around the paint). If he can address the getting to the rim issue anywhere, it would be with Bargnani.

I think this is a fair point. With Rudy being the third option on the Grizzlies, it felt like a lot of his touches wound up being of the "here's the ball, Rudy, do something" variety instead of running something that plays to his strengths. He was really good though in 2010 before he got hurt, and I always thought that the small lineups they ran last year while Z-Bo was out where Rudy played 4 worked fairly well.

Anyway, even though I spent a lot of time yesterday talking about why they would trade Rudy and am mostly optimistic that this trade is an improvement, I am actually sort of bummed about this. I always liked Rudy. He seems like a good kid. He can occasionally be a space cadet on defense but otherwise he works hard and is a pretty entertaining player.

The first really big win that the Grizzlies got with this version of the team was early in 2010 against the new Super-Heat in Memphis. They were like 4-9 at the time. It might have even been in the immediate aftermath of that stupid Iverson debacle, I can't remember what year that was. Anyway, Rudy Gay won that game, hit a baseline jumper off the dribble at the buzzer, right over Lebron. I'll always remember that. He had several moments like that and I've always thought if he'd been healthy in the '10 playoffs they would have beat the Thunder in that second round series. I'll miss him and I hope he does well in Toronto.

Why does Memphis want Ed Davis? Nice player, but not much better than Darrell Arthur, and they have Z-Bo and Gasol as starters.

Neither Arthur nor Randolph are exactly the most durable of people, so having a 4th big who is better than Hamed Haddadi is not really a bad idea. Plus he's young, so even if he doesn't add much to this specific team, doesn't mean he won't down the line.

Also, I must admit, while I basically like the basketball side of this trade, I am mildly worried about the morale effects of trading Rudy. It probably won't be a big deal, but it's a bit of a concern.

I don't dislike the trade for any of the three teams, actually. Toronto screwed up their cap by signing Fields and others, so losing cap flexibility for star potential seems like a reasonable tradeoff to me. Memphis got rid of a guy who couldn't play up to his contract in their scheme, improved their flexibility going forward, and got a couple of pieces that make plenty of sense for a fringe contender. Detroit seems to have made a wiser financial decision and even if it creates a PG logjam, Calderon seems like the only true PG of the bunch. I am least excited about Detroit's part, but they had the smallest role, so that makes sense.

Joe C...where did you go to school?

anyone know what'll happen with will bynum? if they have calderon now, in addition to knight and stuckey, it seems like he may be the odd man out. and he seems to be having a pretty solid year (44/37/81, with 7 assists per 36 minutes), and since the sixers have a pretty noticeable need for both a backup PG and a bench scorer, he'd really be an ideal acquisition.

Uh. This is why you fire Colangelo instead of waiting for the end of the year to let his contract expire, or to make a decision in the off season.

BU then Villanova for grad school, NJ.

Not sure I've seen a team do less with the talent it has than the Sacramento Kings this year.

I don't like the trade for Toronto. Jalen Rose's point seems like a good one, but I'm still not sure Gay helps a team win, and boy is that a lot of money.

Not sure I've seen a team do less with the talent it has than the Sacramento Kings this year.

The Lakers?

Not sure I've seen a team do less with the talent it has than the Sacramento Kings this year.

On the rare occasions I watch the Kings, I make sure to pay attention to Boogie Cousins - and he's as bad as advertised. ######## to officials, zero effort, bad shot selection... you name it. There's glimpses of a stud player, but no way he'll break out in that environment.

Did Reggie Evans get someone to put money on the Heat tonight?

Also, I must admit, while I basically like the basketball side of this trade, I am mildly worried about the morale effects of trading Rudy. It probably won't be a big deal, but it's a bit of a concern.

This was my first thought, too. If the team stumbles after the trade, things could get unhappy.

Sports are a ##### sometimes. As the night's worn on, I've become more and more in favor of this trade from a basketball perspective and more and more bummed out that Rudy's leaving.

Rudy Gay @rudygay22 Thanks to the fans and my teammates in Memphis for the memories. Came in a 19 year old kid now leaving a 26 year old man..thank you!

Not sure I've seen a team do less with the talent it has than the Sacramento Kings this year.
On the rare occasions I watch the Kings, I make sure to pay attention to Boogie Cousins - and he's as bad as advertised. ######## to officials, zero effort, bad shot selection... you name it. There's glimpses of a stud player, but no way he'll break out in that environment.

My friend and I watching Celtics-Kings tonight decided he was a cross between Antoine Walker and DC.

As @pflanns pointed out on twitter tonight, he got Courtney Lee switched onto him early in a possession. He proceeded to spend the remainder of said possession outside the three point line.

Expect to see an ugly game between the Suns and Lakers, and got exactly that, what with the Lakers on the tail end of a back-to-back and the Suns being bad. Both teams combining to shoot just under 41% , Lakers with 12 turnovers at the half. Eww.

Howard goes out, and Laker ball movement goes with him.

Javale McGee likes what he's seeing from Gallo.

Re: the trade, I enjoyed this gif of a Tayshaun Prince fan.

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/1/31/3935798/gregg-popovich-western-conference-all-star-coach

For a moment, I thought "OMG YOU CAN TRADE COACHES IN THE NBA??"

Woj (somehow) connects the Rudy Gay deal to LeBron's future (I honestly couldn't follow the logic) and takes time to destroy Hollinger:

The NBA's owners wanted to break up the super teams and create a system that'll assure Pera can mismanage the Grizzlies into oblivion and still make money on the enterprise. The max contract system makes James the most underpaid athlete on the planet, and soon it will do something else, too: It makes most precarious his future with the Miami Heat...
Levien is making these deals based largely on the recommendations of John Hollinger, a statistician who worked for a cable sports company. The San Antonio Spurs once used him as a consultant and regretfully took his advice to sign a free agent named Jackie Butler. It was such a disaster, the Spurs had to attach Luis Scola to a trade to get Butler out of town.

Woj (somehow) connects the Rudy Gay deal to LeBron's future (I honestly couldn't follow the logic) and takes time to destroy Hollinger:
The NBA's owners wanted to break up the super teams and create a system that'll assure Pera can mismanage the Grizzlies into oblivion and still make money on the enterprise. The max contract system makes James the most underpaid athlete on the planet, and soon it will do something else, too: It makes most precarious his future with the Miami Heat...
Levien is making these deals based largely on the recommendations of John Hollinger, a statistician who worked for a cable sports company. The San Antonio Spurs once used him as a consultant and regretfully took his advice to sign a free agent named Jackie Butler. It was such a disaster, the Spurs had to attach Luis Scola to a trade to get Butler out of town.

I have no clue what was going on in that column.

Jackie Butler!

My first take was Detroit wins, Toronto loses, and this move is justified for Memphis in terms of basketball reasons - though it's interesting to see the Grizz move away from some of what I consider their strengths (continuity, pressure/athleticism on the wing).

John Hollinger, a statistician who worked for a cable sports company.

Dude works for Yahoo! and he's putting down ESPN? Woj is well connected, but he frequently comes off like a jerk.

My first take was Detroit wins, Toronto loses, and this move is justified for Memphis in terms of basketball reasons - though it's interesting to see the Grizz move away from some of what I consider their strengths (continuity, pressure/athleticism on the wing).

Yeah, what does Toronto get out of this really? They give up Ed Davis, who seems like he'll be a nice rotation guy at least, plus Calderon, for Rudy Gay? That's the plan having Lowry, DeRozan, and Gay? I guess that's a lot of athleticism, and they can probably push the tempo with those guys, but they aren't stopping anyone at the other end.

Mildly concerned who picks up the scoring slack for Memphis, but given they were intent to dump Gay's contract, it seems they did well enough.

The other question - if you've already dumped Speights for a pick, why also trade Gay? Did they need to make both of those moves? They had better hope Arthur can stay healthy or they are going to be perilously thin up front.

Dude works for Yahoo! and he's putting down ESPN? Woj is well connected, but he frequently comes off like a jerk.

I wonder if there's a story here?

That's the plan having Lowry, DeRozan, and Gay?

You left out Fields.

Dude works for Yahoo! and he's putting down ESPN?

I honestly had no idea this is what that dig meant until reading this comment. I thought Hollinger used to work for some sports-focused division of Cablevision/Comcast prior to his career at ESPN and this was what Woj was referencing. Makes it even more bizarre/childish to me now, why not just say ESPN?

Luis Scola, at the time of that trade, had never played in the NBA; Woj makes it sound like he was LUIS SCOLA.

Oh, by the way, NJ: now I know why you asked me where I went to school. You showed up in my "who you might know" and I was on a rampage of adding people already.

Makes it even more bizarre/childish to me now, why not just say ESPN?

There's probably some unspoken (or perhaps spoken?) rule not to call out another media company in print?

Mildly concerned who picks up the scoring slack for Memphis

Me too. Gay is an overrated player, but a solid fit for his old team.

Colangelo has definitely overstayed his welcome, right?

There's probably some unspoken (or perhaps spoken?) rule not to call out another media company in print?

I think he's just trying to make Hollinger sound like an egghead with no real-world experience. The line doesn't work if you say "a statistician who worked for ESPN," because that makes him sound to the average sports fan like a guy with real qualifications.

I like the deal for MEM. I'm thoroughly unimpressed with Rudy Gay (though in light of the difficulty of scoring for a wing playing with 2 bigs argument I would be interested in seeing Gay's numbers when either one or both of Gasol/Randolph are out of the game and whether his shot distributions change) so losing him isn't a big deal to me. I'm somewhat of an Ed Davis fan so I like that he allows MEM to at least begin kicking the wheels on moving Z-Bo. So, good deal for MEM.

The other question - if you've already dumped Speights for a pick, why also trade Gay? Did they need to make both of those moves? They had better hope Arthur can stay healthy or they are going to be perilously thin up front.

That's why they got Ed Davis, right? But yes, I wonder this too. If the Gay trade happened first, would they have still done the other one?

Did Reggie Evans get someone to put money on the Heat tonight?

If so, great job of deflecting beforehand.

915. STEAGLES does what STEAGLES does for STEAGLES Posted: January 30, 2013 at 09:20 PM (#4358686)
anyone know what'll happen with will bynum?

This made me do a double take. I missed "will" the first time through. I like Bynum a lot, and I would figure his minutes would disappear now.

That's why they got Ed Davis, right?

As soon as I posted that comment, I thought "Well, they *did* get Davis, you doofus."

Bulls tried to blow another lead against the Bucks last night* - they were up 20 but the Bucks got it back down to 5, before Jennings blew up** and got ejected. Bulls won twice in Milwaukee and the Bucks won twice in Chicago.

*Bulls blew a 27 and 15 point lead in their 2 previous losses to the Bucks.
**Him and NateRob have developed a bit of a rivalry this year, with most of the jawing coming from NateRob. Robinson "drew" an offensive foul call, Jennings threw the ball at the ref and pointed in his face yelling. Probably not going to get a suspension though. And speaking of Robinson:

K.C Johnson ?@KCJHoop
Nate Robinson said his dunk means Richard Hamilton has to do 100 fingertip pushups, which methinks is code for "hundreds of dollars."

Very pretty play got him open for the dunk. It was in a half court set and not a fastbreak. Nate both annoying and incredibly fun to root for.

Lastly, the Jimmy Butler update: 27min, 18pts (8 of 12), 6reb, 2stl, 0 TO. And unfortunately, he's got Stacey King being all Stacey Kingish again - every time Butler scores, King's catchphrase is "the G stands for gets buckets."

This podcast is pretty much nailing all of what I view as the holes in the "Rondo is elite/the best player on the Celtics" theory.

Jeez, I dunno. The theory seemed to be that Rondo tries hard when he's on national TV but doesn't otherwise. Are we buying this? I mean, it could be true, but what worries me is that it's what people would say regardless of whether it was true or not...

Levien is making these deals based largely on the recommendations of John Hollinger, a statistician who worked for a cable sports company.

Oh, boy. This is like the kind of stuff people would say about Bill James in 1985. I guess that's about where we're at now...

I can see people being skeptical of a self-taught baseball statistician whose real job was night watchman at a cranberry silo or whatever Bill James was doing.

It sounds a little sillier to claim that someone is unqualified to handle basketball statistics because he was an ESPN basketball statistical maven.

Van Camp pork and beans, I think.

Haberstroh trade grades: TOR C-, MEM B, DET A-

Jeez, I dunno. The theory seemed to be that Rondo tries hard when he's on national TV but doesn't otherwise. Are we buying this? I mean, it could be true, but what worries me is that it's what people would say regardless of whether it was true or not...

I meant more in the sense that Rondo has elite player moments/games but in the aggregate the evidence is lacking.