If you are rich enough or pretty enough, you can wear your hair any damn way you please. We plebians, not so much.

I watched the Hawks-Lakers game from mid-third quarter on and was surprised by how few touches Howard got. He got the ball in the post one time and touched the ball one other time as a last second dump-off from Kobe as he was going out of bounds. I don't know how he is going to stay when he is basically an afterthought in the offense.

at this point, wouldn't Omer Asik basically do the same thing for the Lakers as Howard? just at a much reduced cost and better health?

Also, continuing from the last thread, how the hell id 30 teams pass up on Chandler Parson at least once again?

The Clippers should have traded for Garnett.

I'm inclined to believe there wasn't anything the Clips could have done during the season to convince KG to accept a trade.

What the Clippers need more than anything is real coach, it's amazing they've done as well as they have considering how seemingly inept Del Negro is at times.

I haven't seen a whole lot of criticisms of VDN this year, so I'm constantly wondering how he's doing. CP3 covers a lot of faults, but it's impossible for him to cover everything.

The Clippers should be playing Bledsoe more, but they go to Crawford a lot late in games, so unless you're going to go *really* small (i.e., with Crawford at the 3)

VDN used to love playing Rose, Gordon and Hinrich together in Chicago - the 3 of them played a ton of minutes together in that epic playoff series against the C's. The 3 of them are smaller than the Clips' 3, but Hinrich was the most suited of those 6 to guard bigger players (like Pierce).

Rose really needs to come back, they win games like tonight when he is in the lineup...

Not that I like trying to say what's in players' heads, but the team looked a lot more mentally into the game with Rose on the bench. Maybe it means....sorry, I'll stop. I think Thibs waited too long to put Noah back in (he checked back in around 3:30) and that cost them some buckets and rebounds. Noah is mainly responsible for the late TO shot clock violation. But it does feel like having Rose would have helped with execution down the stretch. Regardless, I was pleased that Butler finally had another great game.

Rodman is perfect to be the diplomat for north korea. he has enough crazy in him to understand them, and seems to have the ear of the dictator.

Am I the only one who thinks he simply got paid to go because he's broke as hell? As such, I haven't given it any more thought than that.

Also, continuing from the last thread, how the hell id 30 teams pass up on Chandler Parson at least once again?

For one thing, he was a college senior in the draft, so he didn't have age or potential on his side. Also, he didn't really progress from his junior to senior year. His rebounds and assists improved slightly, his scoring was down (and he got to the line less) and his blocks+steals were stagnant form his sophomore year on. If you're getting a finished product, you probably want him to be able to score more than 11 PPG in college. Finally, the pre-draft scouting reports make it sound like teams were concerned about his ability to guard perimeter players and shoot consistently. Ironically, those have become his two greatest strengths, but after guarding bigger guys in college and playing more of a facilitator role, they were probably fair questions.

BTW, unless I missed it, no comments on the Ibaka/Griffin thing. I am amused by Perkins' comments afterwards, but in the laughing at him sort of way.

I haven't seen a whole lot of criticisms of VDN this year, so I'm constantly wondering how he's doing. CP3 covers a lot of faults, but it's impossible for him to cover everything.

The Clippers have done enough so well VDN's faults don't show up as much until one of Paul or Griffin is hurt or until they play a really tough them like the Thunder. It kind of reminds me of how Mike Brown always seemed like a fine coach for Lebron's Cavs until they met up with a team with similar talent and a better coach in the playoffs.

My biggest issues with him are how he handles Jordan and Bledsoe and his sub patterns. He'll often sub out all of the starters at once and while they have have a strong bench and do ok, I think they would do better if they mixed the starters and subs more like a normal coach. Griffin and Paul both play enough minutes that one of them should almost always be out there, but that isn't the case.

With Bledsoe he just hasn't played him at much SG. Bledsoe has something like 25 PER playing next to Paul this year but VDN opted to use guys like Willie Green instead. Bledsoe played SG in college and still mostly plays like one. Paul-Bledsoe-Barnes-Griffin-Jordan are probably their five best players and have only played together about 20 minutes all season.

With Jordan, VDN tends to single him out for mistakes and flaws and keeps him stuck to the bench and uses guys like Odom, Hollins and Turiaf instead who have the same flaws and make many of the same mistakes, but less talent. When Jordan is having a tough game, VDN very rarely gives him a chance to work through it and bounce back, which he needs to learn to do and if it means using Hollins or Turiaf pulling Jordan doesn't even help them short term. There is no reason Jordan should be playing less minutes than he was two years ago, he has clearly improved since then and his backups are bad.

I feel so guilty about Bynum. I moved to Philly a few years ago, and spent the offseason telling anyone who would listen on how great Bynum would be for the city and the team, despite some concerns about his personality. I've been a huge fan since the Lakers drafted him and I think that at one point half of my internet passwords had some version of his name (If you want to crack my not used Hotmail account you have a hint). My barber now barely speaks to me and a Principal at my company just shakes his head at me when I see him in the hallway. I HOPE YOUR HAPPY DREW!

I haven't seen a whole lot of criticisms of VDN this year, so I'm constantly wondering how he's doing. CP3 covers a lot of faults, but it's impossible for him to cover everything.

Does he get any credit for insulating the team from his own shortcomings by usually having two PGs on the floor?

VDN opted to use guys like Willie Green instead

I heard an interview in which Paul said he and Green are friends and he recruited Green to come to LAC. It would not surprise me if his continued PT has a lot to do with that relationship.

There is no reason Jordan should be playing less minutes than he was two years ago, he has clearly improved since then and his backups are bad.

That is very convincing. It's probably the best critique of the Clippers I have heard this year.

OUCH, well I guess it wouldn't be as bad as if you telling everyone in Portland that they should so draft Oden a few years back....

For one thing, he was a college senior in the draft, so he didn't have age or potential on his side.

Is there a market inefficiency of some of these guys here? They might not be superstars, but some of them could be All-Stars. I feel like there's a scouting/talent evaluation process here that doesn't cost a lot of money compared to the cost of draft mistakes / opportunities / opportunity costs.

With Jordan, VDN tends to single him out for mistakes and flaws and keeps him stuck to the bench and uses guys like Odom, Hollins and Turiaf instead who have the same flaws and make many of the same mistakes, but less talent.

This is interesting (as commented on above). I wonder if there's a coaching antipattern here. Jordan makes mistakes, but has the talent/potential to not make them, therefore the mistakes are a negative. The other players make the same "mistakes", but don't have that upside, so they're not "mistakes" -- they're just baseline performance.

OUCH, well I guess it wouldn't be as bad as if you telling everyone in Portland that they should so draft Oden a few years back....

Looking at the state of Centers in the league, I'm still not sure that that's bad advice. Unless you want to be all hindsight.

As good as Durant was, would anyone have bet large sums of money on him being a Top 10 All Time guy at the time of the draft?

In short, one guy (Oden) hit his 5% projection, and the other (Durant) hit his 95% projection. (Numbers pulled out of my ass)

Looking at the state of Centers in the league, I'm still not sure that that's bad advice. Unless you want to be all hindsight.

As good as Durant was, would anyone have bet large sums of money on him being a Top 10 All Time guy at the time of the draft?

In short, one guy (Oden) hit his 5% projection, and the other (Durant) hit his 95% projection. (Numbers pulled out of my ass)

I don't disagree that the Oden stuff was a pretty terrible break. But Durant's measurables and performance his freshman year in college had a lot of people thinking he had a very good chance of being an all-timer at the wing position.

[15] That's fair -- I might be selling Durant short in making that argument. I would be curious what kind of certainty one thinks one could assign to a player being a Top 5, Top 10, Top 20 all-time guy going into the NBA Draft. I feel like you can be pretty confident about saying "Future All-Star". But "All-Time Great"? That gets fuzzier, IMO.

As good as Durant was, would anyone have bet large sums of money on him being a Top 10 All Time guy at the time of the draft?

First off, whoa there with the "Top 10 All-Time" stuff. Durant is having an amazing season, and a wonderful start to his career, but he is 24. Let's just enjoy him for a few years and check back later on the all-time ranking thing.

Also, who in history would you really have bet large sums on being an all-time top 10 guy? Wilt, Russell maybe. Kareem. Bird or Magic, *maybe*? Don't know about guys like Oscar or Jerry West.

Anyway, WRT to Durant, as far as his upside, I thought he was incredible from the start of his college career. I recall picking Texas to win the NCAA Tournament just out of dference to his talent (stupid Rick Barnes!) I mean, just the surface stats - 26 and 11, 40% from three, at 6-9 or 6-10? Yikes. Now, I don't bring this up as a "look at me, I knew how good he would be!" thing - more like, "hey, if a total amateur like me saw this coming (more or less), plenty of others must have as well." I do know I definetly wanted the Celtics (who if you recall had the 2nd worst record heading to that lottery) to draft him over Oden.

Shoot, my post never made it.

I don't remember who I preferred between Oden and Durant, I thought it was very close. Both would be an easy #1 in most drafts. (What Joe said in 17)

I love Asik, but he's not even injured Dwight yet.

13 - Long time pet peeve, though i get it more with good teams (in WS terms, play a guy with lower expected wins and losses and shift opportunities to better, high usage dudes).

Parsons was tricky also because he was a really good glue guy in college, but didn't look to have a singular skill on which he could hang his hat as a pro. Instead, it seems like he got a little bit better at almost everything (a lot better at perimeter shooting + proved that his quickness could translate into perimeter defense).
BTW, did you know he was a 61% shooter from the line in college (401 FTA)? That was a red flag for me...

Also, who in history would you really have bet large sums on being an all-time top 10 guy? Wilt, Russell maybe. Kareem. Bird or Magic, *maybe*? Don't know about guys like Oscar or Jerry West.

Lebron probably. Jordan, not without hindsight, or else you don't draft 2 guys ahead of him. One who didn't make it, but you probably would have bet on is Bill Walton. Maybe Shaq?

Though the top 10 is pretty crowded. Shaq did everything in his career you could have hoped for, and may not be a top 10 alltimer. Though a definite top 20.

Even LeBron I don't think I would have bet top 10 all-time. After his first season, sure, but not right out of high school.

I think with him and Durant and a couple of other guys you could have bet on them being a Hall of Famer (I think this is a fair proxy for all-time great). But like AROM said, you can be a slam dunk #1 pick like Duncan or Shaq, have an insane career, and still not finish in the top 10. So in the modern game, I don't think I could ever put anyone in that class.

Shaq did everything in his career you could have hoped for, and may not be a top 10 alltimer.

Shaq did do everything you reasonably could have hoped for at the start of his career for sure - he also left something on the table. Not that it really mattered, and I don't blame him, being someone who is wired more similarly to him (work hard, sure, but let's not take things TOO seriously and try to enjoy the good things in life) than, say, a Kobe or Michael (borderline sociopathic). I'm just rehashing old stuff here, I know, but Shaq *could* have been even more dominating, and clearly top 10, if he had a different personality.

I would be shocked if there was much discussion of Bird and possibly Magic as "an all-time great" coming out of college. (I broadened "top ten".) I recall a lot of skepticism of whether Bird's game would even translate to the NBA given his lack of athleticism, in a traditional sense. Magic was a game changer in college, a guy big enough to play PF who could play point. But, there were questions about his shooting, and I don't think many pass-first guys are projected as all-time greats.

Obviously, being in the same draft as LeBron (and Darko) hurt him some, but what was the hype like on Carmelo compared to Durant (and Beasley) going into their respective draft years. IIRC, those 3 and Anthony Davis were the big names who went to college and had outstanding first years.

I'm just rehashing old stuff here, I know, but Shaq *could* have been even more dominating, and clearly top 10, if he had a different personality.

I agree with that assessment and I'm neither a Shaq apologist or a Shaq detractor. He never really came into camp in that great of shape later in his career and it was clear from maybe 2002 on that Shaq was done pushing his body in the offseason to drop the 20 or so pounds needed to offset his aging. That said, brute force was always a huge part of his game (again, no value judgements here although aesthetically it was far from my basketball ideals) so maybe he felt he needed the bulk.

________________________

SIAP Rose sat on the bench last night and delivered a classic \"#### you Indy just wait until you get a load of me" GIF at the end of the game. He has to be playing this season IMO after seeing that.

Listening to Zach Lowe's podcast from the Sloan Conference... Guess which player's passes have resulted in the league's best eFG on ensuing shots for each of the last two years.

A few thoughts on yesterday and the final quarter of the season, since I watched parts of three games:

-- The Heat are going to win the East unless Lebron gets hurt. (Trenchant, I know)

-- I think Indiana is the second best team in the East. I don't think the Knicks are far behind, but Indiana's got the elite defense you want in the playoffs. The Knicks do not, and they rely on J.R. Smith from night to night for scoring. You want to bet on that winning you two playoff series? I liked the Bulls the most for #2 a month ago, but man, they just can't score, and if Rose isn't coming back they have no chance against Miami even if they got there somehow. The upside for the Bulls, regardless of what Rose does (and I think he should sit, FWIW), is the Jimmy Butler Era and the impending trade of Luol Deng. Brooklyn is too inconsistent and starting to fade, Atlanta is still Atlanta, and the Celtics upside is a 1st round upset of the Knicks in the 3/6 matchup (I can't wait!) before running out of steam (I think they'd score maybe 80 per game in a matchup with Indiana).

-- Out West....there's 2.5 teams capable of making the Finals, and that's it. Sorry, Memphis, wrong conference; you'd be a clear #2 in the East, but are you really beating two of the Spurs/Clippers/Thunder? Nope. IF (big if) they can get to the three seed, I might be willing to give them a puncher's chance, but I'm really not seeing it with their offense. They'd be a 2010 Celtics type finalist (no superstars, super D with just enough offense), only coming from a stronger conference and without the pedigree. The Clippers....we've talked some about their VDN issues (not playing Bledsoe with Paul, not playing Bledsoe in general, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc) - one the one hand, Chris Paul. Here's my prediction: a great 2nd round series between the Clips and Thunder, goes 7 games, and the Thunder win by 15 in game 7 while Bledsoe plays 8 minutes. Spurs/Thunder? I'll take the Thunder, but YMMV.

-- The Lakers....watched the last quarter and a half of that game last night. A few things stood out: 1) Why isn't Dwight getting the ball in the post more? 2) Dwight could NOT handle the Hawks pick and roll last night. Either of Teague/Smith and Horford were shredding the Lakers in the second half - Horford had several open shots at the rim. Only on the final play did the Lakers finally manage to get help, doubling Horford and forcing him into a game ending turnover. 3) I've never been out on the Lakers as a playoff team, and I still think they will ultimately make it in as a 7 or 8 seed. They are going nowhere once they get there, though. Again, that pick and roll defense....wow. 4) Steve Nash should be shooting more than MWP. It seems profoundly stupid that he doesn't. With all the looks the Lakers can get from three between Howard kickouts and Kobe drive-and-kicks....if I'm playing that team in NBA2k12, I have Nash posted in a corner when Kobe is handling the ball or Dwight gets it in the post, shooting 8 threes per game. 5) Did Dwight and Kwame Brown switch hands in the offseason, or was that just last night?

BTW, did you know (Parsons) was a 61% shooter from the line in college (401 FTA)? That was a red flag for me...

I went to bb-ref to look up just that exact stat, figuring that guys who work at FT shooting in college are a good bet to have a good work ethic in the pros, and are more likely to capitalize on their upside. Not a datapoint in Parsons favor there....

Guess which player's passes have resulted in the league's best eFG on ensuing shots for each of the last two years.

Kobe is my guess, without having listened. See post 26 if I'm right, and don't if I'm wrong. :-) The defense COLLAPSES on him like almost no one else, and he's a good enough passer to find the open guy for a three.

25: Melo? No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!

Oh crap, I bet it is Melo, just because he's an even better choice for "that's the LAST guy I'd pick". And he's also passing to a bunch of guys who shoot threes reasonably well.

As the discussion has gone on, I think I set that "Top 25" bar too high. Maybe HoFer is a better measure, or "Top N" for some other value of N.

[23] Blake Griffin, though a sophomore, was in that camp of "Big 12 guys blowing out record books" as Durant and Beasley.

Guess which player's passes have resulted in the league's best eFG on ensuing shots for each of the last two years.

This is a wild guess, but I remember seeing somewhere that Monta Ellis has extremely good numbers along these lines, though his game seems purpose-built to hide that fact.

I figure that he's teammates with Chandler and Novak, draws a lot of attention and isn't a prolific passer (which helps for being an outlier).

Even LeBron I don't think I would have bet top 10 all-time.

If we broaden it to "All-Time Great", I would have bet on it (barring injury). IIRC, he was playing against NBA players in pickup games before his senior year of high school, and performing at or above their level.

Der K - right, Chandler too. I think you may have this one.

It's definitely Melo.

If we broaden it to "All-Time Great", I would have bet on it (barring injury). IIRC, he was playing against NBA players in pickup games before his senior year of high school, and performing at or above their level.

Think I mentioned this in the previous thread but Antoine Walker was on Simmons' podcast last month and claimed that LeBron took part in Jordan's famous secret pre-return workouts. I had never heard that before so I'm going to assume he was lying.

1) Why isn't Dwight getting the ball in the post more?

Several reasons:

1. His post efficiency has dropped off and he doesn't get much except cookies anymore. Ethan Sherwood Strauss broke it down at Bleacher Report in January:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1466253-breaking-down-a-difference-between-vintage-dwight-howard-and-the-current-version

I saw a number a couple of months ago pointing out that he actually gets a lot of post touches, but he doesn't do much with them and often doesn't try to convert them. He has been getting fewer lately. Both Pau and Kobe are better post players than he is.

2. His back has eroded his base and his ability to establish position. It has also drastically eroded his lateral mobility, which is exposed in PnR D.
3. On the day after D'Antoni was hired, he was quoted as saying "A straight post-up is inefficient." Howard supposedly really wanted Jackson hired.
4. Kobe shoots a lot.
5. Howard turns the ball over a lot.

As to Nash and MWP, Lakers fans have been saying that for weeks(and actually have been saying most of what you said for weeks). As Hombre pointed out when MDA was hired, the Lakers lack the speed and shooting to really run SSOL effectively. I personally thought that D'Antoni would adapt more than he has, although a lot of the issues are roster-based and not on him.

[37] Now that you mention it, that story is sounding really familiar and is the origins of my post. I hadn't remembered the Jordan-comeback part of it, but I do recall him playing against Jordan and his friends, and Jordan and others saying he's NBA ready.

25: Melo? No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!

Yes. His teammates shoot 61% eFG off of his passes.

woohoo! undefeated at trivia today!

i don't remember that lebron stuff at all.

LeBron, Jordan, et.al: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1024928/index.htm

(Googled for "lebron james st vincent st mary michael jordan antoine walker")

[41] Hindsight is 20/20 and all that:

"She's in New Orleans," LeBron says, grinning at the memory of how well his mother, Gloria, had gotten on with Jordan when they met in Chicago last summer.

"She's in New Orleans," LeBron says, grinning at the memory of how well his mother, Gloria, had gotten on with Jordan when they met in Chicago last summer.

Well we already knew she had a thing for somewhat crazy basketball players.

Marreese Speights has 21 and 5 boards at halftime.

Marreese Speights had 0 points and 0 boards in the 3rd quarter.

Favors has 17 points and 14 boards at half against Milwaukee. Please don't rush back Al.

Re. the Shaq thing upthread: he exceeded my expectations because I never thought a guy that big would have such a long career. I figured his knees or feet would give out.

Re. the Shaq thing upthread: he exceeded my expectations because I never thought a guy that big would have such a long career. I figured his knees or feet would give out.

The list of actually really good big guys who's knee / foot blew out isn't that long is it? I mean there's obviously Yao but... (of course it's a pretty small sample.)

The list of actually really good big guys who's knee / foot blew out isn't that long is it? I mean there's obviously Yao but... (of course it's a pretty small sample.)

The aforementioned Bill Walton too.