Tudor, Clemens, Maddux and Pedro were all above average in preventing hits on BIP (I don't remember the #s for Gooden and Brown), and that skill was a significant part of what made them great pitchers. When these guys posted very low BABIPs, they were getting a bit lucky that year -- but they were already starting from a low level.

Huh - I didn't know that about Pedro or Clemens. I mean, I knew there were guys who could consistently keep BABIP low, but I wasn't aware that either of those guys was among them.

But for those willing to dismiss BABIP and DIPS completely in Cy Young voting, do you think Kyle Lohse is as strong a candidate as Cole Hamels? Lohse actually has a lower ERA.

I don't dismiss it completely; for instance, I feel very confident that Jorge Sosa circa 2005 was succeeding through voodoo rather than skill.

That said, the CY case for those two pitchers is pretty similar (and basically non-existent for either, mind you). Even the FIP-based fWAR has them at less than 1 WAR apart, and their FIP delta is ~.20. This seems like a pretty bad example to plant a FIP flag on.