Well, the HELL with the Cardinals.

Let's go Cardinals!

#### Texas.

Best teams dropped in first round. Horrendous end to ALCS, even worse end to NLCS, and now a World Series matchup that I can't even think of an interesting thing to say about.

Is this the price we have to pay for the epic day-162? We should have ended it there and skipped the post-season.

Bah.

I wonder what Tony Plush has to say about these developments.

I do not like Tony LaRussa. Yet I am begrudgingly in amazement of the results he gets from his team every season. Some may chalk it up to luck, but LaRussa has been doing this for too long for it to be a fluke. The guy just seems to have a knack for plugging guys into the right roles and situations. There has not been a big league manager in my lifetime who seemingly gets more from his players, especially those with marginal talent. As a fan of the team that annually used injuries as an excuse to play substandard baseball, I give a tip of the cap to Tony, who's never plucked the injury card from his pocket to excuse playing poor fundamental baseball. It amazes me that in a season during which the team was without its second best starting pitcher, the Cardinals are going to the Fall Classic.

For the Brewers, it's a disappointing end to a magical season. They're a fun team to watch when the defense isn't too horrendous. I don't think the overall best team is moving forward, but that does not mean the Cardinals do not deserve to be there. They've done the unthinkable and surpassed two incredible ball clubs, taking two games in the opposition's ballpark in both series, including the elimination games. They're looking a lot like the October 2006 Cardinals at this point.

It amazes me that in a season during which the team was without its second best starting pitcher, the Cardinals are going to the Fall Classic.

First-best.

4: Agreed, though I didn't know if Carpenter's turnaround midway through the season had changed that perception.

I expect a lot of long, high-scoring games with numerous pitching changes, and an entertaining week of(mostly muted)baseball.

This matchup is a good example of why my least-favorite Seligian adjustment is the ASG determining WS HFA. As a division champ with the better W-L, Texas should have HFA.

The post-season has gone just like I thought--with the glaring exception that Philadelphia lost Game 5 to St. Louis, and I had Philadelphia beating Texas in the WS. I thought St.Louis would beat Milwaukee, and I think I am going to pick them over Texas in 7. But I will need to look at some of the macthups a little more closely.

No real rooting interest, other than a little for Texas, since they have never won.

Like many people here, I was kind of rooting for Milwaukee and Harveys. I think Prince Fielder will be a Cub by December, but as long as Melvin is there, Milwaukee will put competitive teams on the field.

This matchup is a good example of why my least-favorite Seligian adjustment is the ASG determining WS HFA.

Without the Seligian adjustment, the HFA for this year's World Series would have belonged to the Cardinals.

And congrats to Dayn, cfb, Greenback and the rest of the Cardinal contingent here. This is one hell of a run your team is on.

Congrats to the Cards and of course CFB, Dayn, etc...

Holy smokes though, wouldn't have picked that happening a 4 weeks ago...funny game baseball.

For some reason, I don't find the 2011 Cardinals compelling in any way - really, I find them downright boring. A Rangers-Brewers World Series would have been quite exciting, but I'm having a hard time getting very worked up about Rangers-Cardinals.

Without the Seligian adjustment, the HFA for this year's World Series would have belonged to the Cardinals.

He made the wrong adjustment. Division champ should get it against a Wild Card, and other than that it should be based on better record. I assume MLB would say they can't do that for reasons of ticket sales/scheduling, but I think they could if they wanted to.

But I would prefer it just alternate year-by-year like it did in days of yore rather than being determined by the All-Star Game.

4: Agreed, though I didn't know if Carpenter's turnaround midway through the season had changed that perception

Nope, Carpenter is now a wily veteran with good moments, but he's not a true ace anymore like Wainwright.

As a wise man said, "it's not enough to win; others must lose." I love it that my Cardinals are winning; I didn't much like it that it's at the expense of the Brewers who, Nyjer Morgan aside, are a classy team with a classy fanbase. This NLCS felt like the 06 WS to me -- hollow in that my team beat up on a deserving team with a long-suffering (but not fetishistically or ostentatiously long-suffering -- and you freaks know who YOU are) fanbase. Even if the Cardinals beat the Rangers, it won't feel as good to me as the '06 NLCS. Beating honorable opponents is never as satisfying as beating bullies, ########, and ##########.

agreed Retardo.

Nicely done by STL. TLR put a ton on the bullpen and they did it. My hopes were dashed after game 5, I figured after game 2 that Milwaukee had to get to 3 wins before STL, to avoid this elimination game. I guess I'm more accepting of this outcome as the defensive meltdowns were high on my list of ways the Brewers would be eliminated. The SP was disappointing to say the least, particularly given how much they gave all year.

I'm not sure it tops the '96 NLCS for vomit baseball to end a series, but it wasn't pretty.

re: Prince awkward interview. It was, but that's about as much as he gives. He's a not a jerk, or very interested in being open, not evasive, just shy. Though if I'm in his shoes tonight, I'd like to think I'd be prepared to offer a bit more on the 'big picture,' reflections on the past or tomorrow.

Go Rangers!

He made the wrong adjustment. Division champ should get it against a Wild Card, and other than that it should be based on better record. I assume MLB would say they can't do that for reasons of ticket sales/scheduling, but I think they could if they wanted to.

But I would prefer it just alternate year-by-year like it did in days of yore rather than being determined by the All-Star Game.

I agree they could if they really wanted to. The NBA and NHL do it without incident.

I disagree that the alternate year was better. The alternating year bit was much dumber than the A-S game, which at least has a tinge of merit to it, and is straightforward to boot. Deciding the HFA by the last integer in the calendar year does not make it fair - it simply makes it brainless.

As long as interleague play exists (and if the Astros or some other NL entity get shifted, dragging and kicking, to the AL it will exist in perpetuity, to my chagrin), I'd prefer a best 2 of 3 (A-S game, best record in interleague play and best record of the teams in the series). If one league wins both the A-S game and the most games in interleague play, it's earned the right to HFA in the only other competition between the leagues. If those two are split, then the team with the best record breaks the tie. I don't like simply awarding it to the team with the best record because league-quality issues could mean giving it to an inferior team, which is precisely what you're trying to avoid. The best 2 of 3 would give a) some meaning to the A-S game; and b) some reason to pay attention during the tedium that is IL play.

WOOT WOOT WOOT

I AM ON THE DAVID FREESE BANDWAGON

*showers cfb, salvomania, dayn, greenback, et al. with champagne*

The elation for St. Louis won't be long-lived in the starting pitching doesn't step up compared to the NLCS. Their bullpen coming through in the championship series after being the team's Achilles Heel most of the season is a great story. I'm not sure if Tony can rely on going to the pen in the 5th inning every game for another series.

Given what the Rangers' starting pitching has looked like this postseason, though, I expect some real slugfests.

Well, that ends my interest in the 2011 baseball season. Wake me for spring training.

I have no doubt the Cards will win, Wild Card teams that have no business being in the post season to begin with seem to rule these things. How ridiculous.

I'd prefer a best 2 of 3 (A-S game, best record in interleague play and best record of the teams in the series).

That's a pretty good idea. Interleague play on its own would be better than the ASG, since the interleague games at least involve teams that are trying to win.

I don't like simply awarding it to the team with the best record because league-quality issues could mean giving it to an inferior team, which is precisely what you're trying to avoid.

The "best team" in some Platonic sense is often a tricky thing in baseball. But I don't have a problem with a team that won 95 games being awarded HFA over a team that won 94, although, admittedly, that system works a bit better, albeit imperfectly, in the NHL and the NBA for reasons of schedule. The team that won 95 won more games; there should be a reward for that IMO.

But your idea would be an improvement what they do now.

I am not trying to take anything away from St.Louis. My gripe is with Selig, not with the LaRussians.

I can't really understand people who are huge baseball fans who say that a World Series between two 90+-win teams holds no interest for them. The St. Louis Cardinals are led by the best baseball player of this generation, who remains, if anything, underrated by the national press. Seeing Milwaukee in the World Series would have been a lot of fun, but the Cardinals aren't imposters. They won 90 games despite not having their best starting pitcher for the entire season and despite facing nearly insurmountable odds that would have caused many teams to give up hope.

I think some recognition should also go to TLR and Mozeliak for addressing St. Louis' biggest weakness, which was the bullpen. The Cards have completely revamped their bullpen since Opening Day, with only Motte and Boggs remaining and both having assumed different roles than they had in April. The front office brought in Salas, Rhodes, Dotel, Rzepzynski and Lynn, to cover the main names. The price they paid for Dotel, Rzep and Edwin Jackson was controversial and could come back to haunt them is Rasmus develops like his 2010 season suggested he would. However, I don't think the Cards make the playoffs without Jackson in the rotation, the two relievers in the pen and Jon Jay starting in CF, given how Rasmus hit in Toronto (albeit which may have been affected by such factors as adjustment to the AL or shock at the trade which he wouldn't had to deal with in the NL). And, even if they did, given the team's reliance on the bullpen during this series, it's even more unlikely the Cards win this round without their new bullpen. Credit where credit is due for recognizing the team's biggest weakness and throughly addressing it, even at a controversial price.

Chins up, Brewers fans. A great season, a fun team and a valiant effort. In all seriousness, sorry to see you go. Prince or no Prince, I think you'll be back.

I don't understand the concept of not watching a World Series, but do what you must do. This has been one of the most gripping and compelling seasons I've ever witnessed, and I'm glad there's another four-to-seven games of it. Go Cards. Go baseball.

Congrats to the Cards and their fans. LaRussa has really done a terrific job. I really wanted to see the Brewers get in but this should be a compelling series and with these two managers the opportunity for the best part of being a fan, the ol' second guess, is likely to be quite high.

I can't really understand people who are huge baseball fans who say that a World Series between two 90+-win teams holds no interest for them.

I'm willing to bet the people on this thread who said that, will at least pay attention to the World Series if they don't watch it. But I can understand not caring too much, if this was two coastal teams playing, I doubt I would be that interested either. Arguably the most boring/least that I cared about, world series ever was the Yankees vs Phillies. I could understand other people thinking the same about any series. The Royals/Cardinal world series was dubbed nationally as the who cares series.

I can understand LESS interest. I can't understand NO interest.


My general antipathy for the wild card aside, I'll be rooting for Texas simply on the basis of not having won before.


But, mostly, I'll be rooting for some good baseball games. Which means seeing a starter advance past the third inning occasionally. On this score, I worry deeply about this World Series. I know these things aren't easily predictable, but based on LCS results, one can imagine a brutish, 15 runs per game type Series. Ugh.


All I want is 7 games, two pitcher's duels, one slugfest, and one walkoff play, preferably to stave off elimination. Too much to ask?

2nd place team gets undeserved chance to roll dice, beat team that beat them fairly over a real sample size. Does so. Idiot sportswriters write idiot sports stories about "heart" and "genius" managers. News at 11.

I don't find the 2011 Cardinals compelling in any way - really, I find them downright boring.

If it does nothing else, this series will feature 15 to 30 Albert Pujols plate appearances. If you don't find it compelling to watch the best hitter in the game hit, then you just don't like baseball.

I just came from Vermont, and there ISN'T ENOUGH CHEESE THERE TO GO WITH ALL THIS WHINE.

Best teams dropped in first round. Horrendous end to ALCS, even worse end to NLCS, and now a World Series matchup that I can't even think of an interesting thing to say about.

This of course leaves out that there were three terrific game fives in the LDS, and that the Tigers-Rangers games were all close save for the anti-climactic finale. Two went to extra innings for heaven's sake!

Both LCSes ended rather ignobly, but up until the last couple days these playoffs have been well above average in terms of excitement.

I guess it can seem like a let down after the infamous Day of 162, but I don't see how you can be a baseball fan and not have enjoyed the last couple weeks.

This is nothing but a pointless series of exhibition games, since it's already been determined that the Yankees are the best team in baseball: 0.2 RPG better than the Rangers and a whopping 1.2 RPG better than the LaRussas. The SRS don't lie, folks, and it's every bit as reliable as coolstandings.com. and the boys at Baseball Prospectus.

I just came from Vermont, and there ISN'T ENOUGH CHEESE THERE TO GO WITH ALL THIS WHINE.

Relax. They've got plenty in Wisconsin.

2nd place team gets undeserved chance to roll dice, beat team that beat them fairly over a real sample size. Does so. Idiot sportswriters write idiot sports stories about "heart" and "genius" managers. News at 11.

In the Wild Card era, the Cardinals have been eliminated from the postseason by a 2nd place team on 4 different occasions - including the 2005 Astros who finished 11 games back in the NL Central.

We get it. It sucks. But it's only fitting that Selig's former team be victimized by his creation.

We get it. It sucks.

It does. That is the only note worth sounding here.

But it's only fitting that Selig's former team be victimized by his creation.

This.

It gets easier and easier to understand why sabermetric sites get mocked, with threads like these.


All I want is 7 games, two pitcher's duels, one slugfest, and one walkoff play, preferably to stave off elimination. Too much to ask?

Apparently so.

The playoffs have been slowly diminishing in interest since Game 162. The divisional series featured a whole bunch of exciting game 5s, and the championship series had a few good games then petered out in boring, slow game 6s. I predict the Rangers take the World Series in 5.

In the Wild Card era, the Cardinals have been eliminated from the postseason by a 2nd place team on 4 different occasions - including the 2005 Astros who finished 11 games back in the NL Central.

Yeah, that one sucked too. I could take the wild card a lot better if there were no divisions. Because this year in the NL (and 2005), a team that was soundly beaten in the regular season came back to win a short series against the team that beat them and advance. It makes no sense.

If the Cardinals had swept this series, they'd still trail the Brewers on season record to date.

It gets easier and easier to understand why sabermetric sites get mocked, with threads like these.

Do you have a point?

I assume MLB would say they can't do that for reasons of ticket sales/scheduling, but I think they could if they wanted to.

Of course they could. Up till last night, they didn't know for sure if game 1 of the WS would be in St. Louis or Milwaukee. What's the difference in not knowing till yesterday if it would be in Milwaukee or Arlington?

Every team I've rooted for this postseason has lost. Phillies, Rays, Tigers, Brewers...if this pattern holds, I will root for the Cardinals because I hate Tony LaRussa.

Do you have a point?

I already made it, too much whining about what did happen in relation to what should happen. Wah wah wah.

And as long as you're asking, why you would even show up in a post-season thread is beyond me.

I'm bored. When I'm bored, sometimes I go hippie-punching. It happens.

I don't particularly care for either team in this series but it should be a fun series. If you want to ##### about the injustices of the wild card knock yourself out but I can't comprehend a baseball fan not being interested in the World Series

I'm bored. When I'm bored, sometimes I go hippie-punching. It happens.

If you think that people who don't hate post-season baseball somehow count as hippies, you need to get out more. Don't you know any vegetarians or something?

If you think that people who don't hate post-season baseball somehow count as hippies, you need to get out more.

I will acquire my own targets, thank you very much.

Don't like the Cardinals and can't stand the Michael Young/Josh Hamilton lovefest so...when does ST start?

If you dredge up the prediction thread, you will see that I picked the winners of all three AL series and the exact number of games in each. I will accept congratulations now. Please ignore the part where I said that the Phillies just beat the Diamondbacks in five :)

I'm not sure what to make of the World Series; St. Louis looks kind of unpredictable at the moment. Walks Clog makes a good point above, that the Rangers' starting pitching needs to step up. Probably the best start any of them made in the AL series was Colby Lewis against the Rays (6 1 1 1 2 6); after that maybe Matt Harrison in the ALCS (5 3 2 2 3 3). Curt Schilling that ain't. The bullpen has been fabulous, and may well continue to be; but somebody needs to shut the Cardinals down for 7 or 8 innings if the Rangers expect to win.

As to being uninterested in the World Series ... I remember a time in 1987 when I was watching playoff baseball in a bar – Jeffrey Leonard had just hit another home run – and I remarked to a friend that they were going to have to offer something better than the Twins versus the Giants if they expected me to be interested in the World Series. My friend said "why should they care what you think?" It wasn't the most brilliant conversation of the 20th century (alcohol may have been involved), but it has stuck with me. My friend's remark brought home that the guys out there playing deserve some attention and credit for winning, no matter how random the matchup seems based on the regular season or my aesthetic preferences. (And who knows why, anymore, I wanted to see a Cardinals/Tigers Series; anyway, the one I got instead was pretty entertaining.)

I've been pretty keenly interested in every Series since. The dullest matchup I can remember was 2007: last-minute Wild Card entry vs. dominant Red Sox. (The Red Sox are my least favorite team.) The outcome was pretty stultifying, but even at that I came away impressed by that Boston team; they were really, really good.

If it does nothing else, this series will feature 15 to 30 Albert Pujols plate appearances. If you don't find it compelling to watch the best hitter in the game hit, then you just don't like baseball.

Why would I want to watch a great hitter when he plays for the team I want to lose? I've never gotten the appeal of "the best" if he's not on my team.

I loved Michael Jordan when he was racking up points on a .500 Bulls teams, but once he was anointed "the greatest" couldn't stand him. There's no drama at all in rooting for the "greatest". Can not understand for the life of me people who rootesd for Tiger Woods to lap the field by 10 strokes.

Nothing more obnoxious than the "greatest" whatever, unless he's wearing your laundry.

I could take the wild card a lot better if there were no divisions.

Why? It makes even less sense with no divisions and a balanced schedule. Then the "better" team is more clear.

At least with the divisions you can argue that the 2nd best team in a strong division is "better" than a weak division winner. In a balanced league setup (like the old 8-team single division leagues) letting a 2nd place team in is even dumber.

Snapper - I love watching the truly elite in any sport. Obviously if they play for a team I truly despise (I.e.. The Yankees) thats one thing but while I'm rooting for Texas for the next ten days seeing someone like Pujols excel is exciting to me. I wanted Milwaukee to beat the Cards but that five RBI game was a sight to behold.