The fact that the last CBA negotiations took up this topic and punted it shows that the owners and players are pretty far apart on this. I would think that a lot of the blow-back on the union side is not necessarily from the players but from the agents, who wield a lot of power as a bloc. A fully slotted international draft would essentially nullify the agents' necessity during the draft, and end the occasional lottery tickets of international signings like Cespedes and Darvish. MLB should have to give some significant concessions to end the negotiating rights of an entire globe of players. If only our Congress understood that negotiations should hurt both sides equally.

Could be that more is spent on international players than we know. From scouting to baseball academy's as well as the bonus' and the raw number of players signed in hopes of getting that winning lottery ticket. Also, a draft could delay the signing from 16 to 17 or 18 giving teams a better idea of what they are getting before they sign the player. MLB could set up academy's on their own and close down most team based ones thus costing all teams the price of one instead of 30 per country/territory. MLB might also be seeing a strong future for international players - not just from Japan but also Europe and other places. An international draft would clear up a lot of those things.

Now, as to what players would require to allow it, I suspect the players are being hard nosed on it as they know this is one of the few items they have left that is worth anything significant to the owners. The minimum salary is what I'd be chasing if I was the players as that affects the highest number of players. Pushing arbitration back to 2 years instead of 2+ would seem crazy to me for the owners to give up, but the owners might feel they can manipulate it easier (the old down until mid-April then called up trick vs the guesswork it is now).

As a fan a draft is more fun - easier to evaluate than the 'did so and so sign yet' thing we have now. But, as a fan of a team with a smart GM (the Jays) I can see them taking advantage of the current system easier than taking advantage of a new one. Still, the smart GM's will find loopholes in any system.

Uh, who cares what MLB and the PA want? Isn't the institution of the draft on Puerto Rico seen as a large factor in the decline of baseball there? Or am I mistaken? Think what would happen to baseball if a similar situation played out in the DR and Venezuela?

Here's a times article from 2012, and a MLB.com article from 2007.

Yet another visionary move by Bud that would sacrifice the long-term interest of the game in favor of a short-term financial benefit. Who could have predicted it?

How would this work with Cubans? Do you draft them in the hopes they defect, or do you wait until they do?

How would this work with Cubans? Do you draft them in the hopes they defect, or do you wait until they do?

I would imagine that Cubans wouldn't be eligible. The problem would be that most defectors establish Dominican (or some other country not currently eligible for the draft) residency. If they did that after this, they'd probably become draft eligible then (like Onelkys Garcia last year). Or all the Cubans would start signing in the Japanese League.

Could be that more is spent on international players than we know. From scouting to baseball academy's as well as the bonus' and the raw number of players signed in hopes of getting that winning lottery ticket. Also, a draft could delay the signing from 16 to 17 or 18 giving teams a better idea of what they are getting before they sign the player. MLB could set up academy's on their own and close down most team based ones thus costing all teams the price of one instead of 30 per country/territory. MLB might also be seeing a strong future for international players - not just from Japan but also Europe and other places. An international draft would clear up a lot of those things.

Oh goody, less resources for player development! Just what a fan wants to hear!

1. If there's going to be an international draft, I think I'd prefer it to be distinct from the domestic draft and with hard slotting. Am willing to be persuaded on this point.
2. Isn't the institution of the draft on Puerto Rico seen as a large factor in the decline of baseball there? Yes. I think it's overstated as a cause, but certainly a, if not the, contributing factor.
3. I presume MLB would allow players who meet certain age/experience criteria to not be subject to the draft (NPB, KBO, older Cubans), as they are not currently subject to the signing pool. Should tweak defection patterns though, in the latter case.
4. I am okay with MLB landing a few less athletes as a result of initiatives like this (guys who instead play basketball or whatever). Most fans, I suspect, 'should' not be.
5. Not sure what would happen with team academies. Having a few MLB academies would make sense, I think.

Oh goody, less resources for player development! Just what a fan wants to hear!

When I think about MLB and what it could to improve my experience as a fan, "fewer great players" is number one.

But, a strictly slotted international draft would be bad for the Yankees, right? There's that.

Shouldn't the MLBPA see a significant increase in the minimum salary anyway? $1M minimum would essentially institute a salary "floor".

Oh goody, less resources for player development! Just what a fan wants to hear!

I read that as "More resources for player development spent within each organization, and less paid in, effectively, marketing costs to international free agents."

10: Do you mean compared to a pool (present day) or to the previous world where spending was largely unfettered by MLB? The Yankees were always more conservative w/ their spending here than I thought made sense - but it probably would hurt them slightly, relative to present day conditions.

If the drafts are combined and teams continue to lack hard slotting, you'll see teams pick int'l guys early - squeeze them on dollars - and use the surplus to land more expensive dudes (a blend of what the Astros did with Correa and what many teams did with seniors last year - it was like a donut hole in rounds 8-10 of the draft). I don't like weird structures like that...

I suspect the 'fewer great players' argument is minimal. If a player has the talent they tend to get found. The best academy on earth couldn't change, say, John McDonald into a 10 time all-star. Likewise, someone who is a star calibre player will normally get found, academy or not. Right now the academy's are pushing kids at young ages to drop everything for a shot at MLB. Now, in some countries their future may not have many options but to risk everything for a 1% shot (at best) for glory is crazy. I'm glad MLB stopped signing 14 year olds awhile back - I remember a shortstop Jimy Kelly (B-R has him as Jimmy Kelly but I remember the media having fun with him being a one M like the manager) who the Jays signed at 14 and sent to the Gulf Coast League...he made it to AA by 17 but was out of baseball by his age 19 season. He had one spring training with the Jays where he played a lot for some reason. Guys like him gave up their teenage years and ended up with nothing - he never got a ML paycheque, wouldn't have finished high school, and at 20 would've had to find a 'real job' when he did nothing but baseball from the age of 14 (if not earlier). Yeah, he has a great story now but I suspect that is all he has from it.

If fewer Jimy Kelly's get shots I'm fine with it. Or if more guys like him are allowed to grow up first before being sent to a foreign country I'm also fine with that. The hard slotting I'm not in favour of as the first deal these kids get is probably their best deal, but at least they'll know where they rank going in. Ideally you'd make it a mix-and-match with one draft for all players - that way if a Dominican is the best non-pro player he will get the best deal. Also, hopefully, if a player has the talent some US colleges will chase him down and offer a scholarship (as some won't sign for whatever reason) leading to a potential future if he takes advantage. There can be positives, it all depends on how it is run.

I, for one, would accept an international draft in exchange for tripling minor league salaries, and adding a whole foods nutrition coach to each team (1 for all A through majors should be sufficient)

"We're helping internationalize baseball with the WBC, now we must institute a international draft to make sure we don't internationalize too much! Brilliant!"

I still don't know how MLB could logistically handle an international draft. Seems perfect opportunity for abuse

My first reaction to this is a question: If we look at the way pro basketball and hockey deal with international players, what is applicable/not applicable to MLB? How have the NHL and NBA improved that process over the years? Compared to MLB, what percentage of NBA players are non-Americans? What percentage of NHL players are non-American/Canadian?

The Cuba wrinkle is probably unique to baseball, because of the lack of basketball and hockey talent coming from Cuba, and the high level of baseball talent developed in Cuba.

How would this work with Cubans? Do you draft them in the hopes they defect, or do you wait until they do?

In the old days in hockey, Soviets and Czechs were drafted while still behind the Iron Curtain. They were usually drafted pretty late given their talent level, but eventually those lottery tickets cashed in.

For example, Vladislav Tretiak was owned by the Canadiens. They never got him because he tried to play by the rules and come over after his playing career was over for the USSR. Peter Stastny got on the phone with the Nordiques while playing a tournament in Austria and told them to come pick his ass up.

I think the main purpose here is to cripple or eliminate the buscones system. Obviously MLB's interest in doing this is cost related but it might not be a bad thing overall. It will be pretty tricky to implement a MLB development system on the same scale as the team-run camps.

I think the main purpose here is to cripple or eliminate the buscones system.

I think it's also that MLB might be trying to head off a long-term PR issue. The difference between MLB and the NHL/NBA is that those two leagues up until now have only been drafting from developed nations into in a sport/system where the player has a pretty good chance of making their major league (an excellent chance in basketball), whereas in baseball the business is in independent operators (the teams) getting into very young uneducated kids from undeveloped nations who have a very small chance of making the major leagues. Sooner or later someone's going to make an issue over this and there's going to be some ugly stuff revealed (such as the article we had a month or so back about the kid dying in someone's camp). What happens, god forbid, if some sort of sexual predator scandal comes out in some team's camp/academy (we use the word "academy" for the PR sop it is)? That would be a pretty horrible thing for baseball - obviously having MLB running the program doesn't remove that risk, but at the moment everything feels a little loosey-goosey. The money is a huge issue of course but I bet they also want to formalize the system as much as possible so the league has some influence over disaster scenarios - whether of course the MLB league office would actually any kind of decent job heading off disaster scenarios is another question entirely.

The NHL is much more like MLB in terms of drafting young kids who might never make the "major" league and having a well developed minor league system than the NBA or NFL. Also, there have been multiple sexual scandals involving young players and junior hockey coaches.



As to this worldwide MLB draft idea. Clearly the owners think it will save them money somehow. Vlad is totally correct in [4].

How does an international draft affect the NPB posting system? I'd think it would shift heavily in favor of the player.

EDIT: and the MLB team. There's likely to be a price point higher than the player gets now, and lower than the MLB team pays now, where a deal gets done. The NPB teams lose out.

I still don't know how MLB could logistically handle an international draft. Seems perfect opportunity for abuse

How would there be more abuse with a draft?

The NHL is much more like MLB in terms of drafting young kids who might never make the "major" league and having a well developed minor league system than the NBA or NFL. Also, there have been multiple sexual scandals involving young players and junior hockey coaches.

Like I said, MLB taking control doesn't remove the possibility of issues, but right now I imagine the league office feels at the mercy of issues happening in venues they have no control over, and clearly the MLB head office (like all head offices everywhere) is very big on control. And I agreed the money issue is huge too. Though scandals are a money issue as well. I don't recall a financially poor uneducated kid ever dying of a preventable health issue in an NHL team's minor league hockey camp held in an impoverished foreign third world nation - if you think MLB didn't notice that article (and similar other stories we no doubt haven't been privy to over the years) and imagine similar but worse scenarios, I'd say you're wrong. PR means money too in the end.

If you're comparing the two drafts, the NHL goes 7 international rounds for a 23-man "major league" roster. The MLB draft goes 40 domestic rounds for a 25 man roster and then add on maybe 20-30 kids per team (I have no idea what the actual numbers are) per year into their academies. There's not a huge comparison between the two, though yes the NHL is clearly a worse chance than the NBA or NFL.

There's two ways to dismantle the buscones system, you either let MLB declare a draft, particularly in Latin America, or you allow MLB teams to sign players as young as 6 and let them set up their own baseball academies, like they do in Soccer.

Each option is perverse, but so is the current buscones system.

How would there be more abuse with a draft?

How could MLB ensure players aren't hidden or misrepresented in the new system? We know it's exploited now but whenever ML tries to control something, they inevitable create more problems they they are trying to solve. It just seems with the issues dealing with proof of birth in many of the Latin American countries that trying to create some sort of registry for an international draft would exacerbate that challenge

What countries comprise the bulk of the NHL international market? And how does those countries compare to the Latin American countries when it comes to things like accurately tracking identities?

What countries comprise the bulk of the NHL international market?

Without looking it up, Russia, Sweden, Finland, and the Czech Republic.

There's two ways to dismantle the buscones system, you either let MLB declare a draft, particularly in Latin America, or you allow MLB teams to sign players as young as 6 and let them set up their own baseball academies, like they do in Soccer.

Each option is perverse, but so is the current buscones system.

Why is a draft perverse? It seems to fairest of all options.

Why is a draft perverse? It seems to fairest of all options.

Except to the players, whose incomes are artificially deflated by orders of magnitude for several years(in the best cases and forever in most cases).

Without looking it up, Russia, Sweden, Finland, and the Czech Republic.

There Slovakia too.

Except to the players, whose incomes are artificially deflated by orders of magnitude for several years(in the best cases and forever in most cases).

Well, that's an argument against the US draft too; not about extending it to the world.

If the draft eliminates the buscones' cut, it might actually put more money in the players' pockets, even if total bonuses fall. IIRC, the buscones take about 50%, so if the players migrate to real agents who take 5-10%, the upside is pretyy big.

What about kids who never get drafted because the academies close and they can't afford to spend their time playing baseball?

The downside is pretty big too. The draft is bad in the US, but it could be really harmful to development of baseball players in poorer countries.

What about kids who never get drafted because the academies close and they can't afford to spend their time playing baseball?

Why do you assume fewer players will be drafted than are currently signed?

I suspect the 'fewer great players' argument is minimal. If a player has the talent they tend to get found. The best academy on earth couldn't change, say, John McDonald into a 10 time all-star. Likewise, someone who is a star calibre player will normally get found, academy or not.

But the difference between John McDonald and that 10 time all star as a 10-13 year old may not be that big. A lot of these guys are this good because they did get to play baseball and had great coaching 24/7. Robinson Canos are not just born, glove and bat in hand. It takes a lot of work beyond natural ability.

I agree that the more we can do to teach these kids important skills beyond baseball is for the better. But the problem isn't just that some kids are choosing ball over school. A lot of kids are choosing something besides school.

For every 100 Dominican children entering formal education, only 75 complete grade 4; 63 complete grade 6 and only 52 complete the 8-year primary level. This situation is even worse in rural areas where most schools stop at grade 5

Why do you assume fewer players will be drafted than are currently signed?

Why do you assume the buscones won't still get a cut?

In the current free for all system of purchasing lottery ticket international players, the big winners are the agents. The big losers are the poorer MLB teams.

A draft with strict slotting takes $ directly from Scott Boras types and gives it to the owners. This is not a bad thing.

If a formula can determine how much MLB owners will save with a slotting draft, 50% of it should be passed on to the Union. This can be in the form of a higher minimum salary, or even better as suggested in #15, a massive increase in minor league salaries.

An international draft is an idea whose implementation is long overdue.

Additionally, how much of a cut do Dominican kids give to their local "advisors"? From what I've read, most of these contracts are unconscionable. MLB could enact a clause limiting the % an international player is allowed under the law to turn over to these sharks. It's possible that with an international draft, the young kids may actually come out with more $ in their pocket.

I still don’t get this. Teams simply don’t spend that much on international free agent signings. They do spend a lot in arbitration and all teams have lots of players making the minimum or thereabouts. It doesn’t seem like giving away things like that make financial sense when compared to the relative small dollars given to guys on the international market.

Meanwhile, the players have, historically, liked to see more guys subject to the draft and have always been willing to negotiate away the rights of others like this. So why do they need big giveaways like this? I know why they’d want them, but MLB can’t think they have to give away that much, can it?

1. Once MLB gets this, they get it for good. It's a win forever. The minimum salary is going to go up at some point. They're just offering to accelerate the timeline. I'll believe the owners give in on arbitration service requirements when I see it.

2. I have a suspicion that MLB players who came up as international signings when they knew that baseball might be their only way out of poverty may be a bit more reluctant to bargain away the rights of their 16 year old countrymen who are following in their footsteps than American players.

A draft with strict slotting takes $ directly from Scott Boras types and gives it to the owners. This is not a bad thing.

A draft with any sort of slotting or capping is all about taking $ directly from the wrong sort of people (stupid jocks and smelly foreign types accustomed to squalor) and giving it t the right sort of people (well groomed, sophisticated, heroes of capitalism). Some people think that is not a bad thing but there hasn't been an oppressive system in the history of civilization that didn't have it's advocates.

Why do you assume the buscones won't still get a cut?

What role is there for them? I assume the players would use actual agents at age-18, like the US amateurs. And those guys take a much smaller cut.

The whole arb of instituting the draft is that there is a huge cut of the total pie going to a set of people (buscones) who basically add no value, and have no influence in the US. If MLB can cut them out, they can pay the players more, and still save money.

From what I've read, most of these contracts are unconscionable.

So, the solution for unconscionable contracts is to give Latin-American players even worse ones? Puerto Rico sure isn't thankful that they were saved from all these "unfair" contracts.

A draft with any sort of slotting or capping is all about taking $ directly from the wrong sort of people (stupid jocks and smelly foreign types accustomed to squalor) and giving it t the right sort of people (well capitalized, sophisticated, heroes of capitalism). Some people think that is not a bad thing but there hasn't been an oppressive system in the history of civilization that didn't have it's advocates.

Sure, much better to lets the local buscones steal 50% of these kids money than have the evil white man take 25%.

If MLB can cut them out, they can pay the players more, and still save money.

Except there's absolutely no reason to believe that this would actually happen. If you think that baseball teams are going to give players more as a result of destroying any leverage or rights the players have, a process started by last year's CBA change, I've got a whole lotta bridges to sell you.

Yes, we're all so concerned about the buscones. What can be done but to turn the fiscal futures of these poor third world players over to the enlightened Budscones, who can be counted on to take up the white man's burden in only the fairest of ways.

What role is there for them? I assume the players would use actual agents at age-18, like the US amateurs. And those guys take a much smaller cut.

Ok, you misunderstood my previous posts. The kids in question are poor, so poor, that most can't afford to stay in school and have to go to work at a young age (see [36]). Currently, the ones who show some talent for baseball go academies run by teams where they are provided food and lodging (and I believe some general eductation, not sure on that) and they can then practice baseball, a lot. Once the draft is instituted, teams have no reason to fund these academies. The academies go away, the kids can't afford to practice baseball, they don't get drafted. Instead, you'll see buscones provide some of these kids with food and lodging and coach them in baseball in exchange for a portion of their signing bonus etc. Baseball can try to ban that practice, but then it will just be the most immoral/criminal buscones who continue it.

Sure, much better to lets the local buscones steal 50% of these kids money than have the evil white man take 25%.

This assumes the money will be the same. With a hard slotted draft, it won't. Which would you rather, 50% of $1M or 75% of $250K?

Except there's absolutely no reason to believe that this would actually happen. If you think that baseball teams are going to give players more as a result of destroying any leverage or rights the players have, a process started by last year's CBA change, I've got a whole lotta bridges to sell you.

The teams can spend less and the players get more. If the Buscones are taking 50%, and a real agent will take 10%, then you pay the players 40% more, while the owners spend 20% less.

e.g. current system: player signs for $100, Buscone takes $50, player gets system. new system: player signs for $80, agent take $8, player gets $72.

Ok, you misunderstood my previous posts. The kids in question are poor, so poor, that most can't afford to stay in school and have to go to work at a young age (see [36]). Currently, the ones who show some talent for baseball go academies run by teams where they are provided food and lodging (and I believe some general eductation, not sure on that) and they can then practice baseball, a lot. Once the draft is instituted, teams have no reason to fund these academies. The academies go away, the kids can't afford to practice baseball, they don't get drafted. Instead, you'll see buscones provide some of these kids with food and lodging and coach them in baseball in exchange for a portion of their signing bonus etc. Baseball can try to ban that practice, but then it will just be the most immoral/criminal buscones who continue it.

I'm assuming MLB will continue academies, like they are doing in inner-city America.

Yes, we're all so concerned about the buscones. What can be done but to turn the fiscal futures of these poor third world players over to the enlightened Budscones, who can be counted on to take up the white man's burden in only the fairest of ways.

Yes, indeed, and of course the motivation for your "view" isn't simply to keep a system in place that favors all the rich teams, and of course most favors the richest team, The Yankees.*


*YR's wardrobe provided by The Gap for Kids

I'm assuming MLB will continue academies, like they are doing in inner-city America.

Seriously doubt MLB will continue all the academies. Every "spot" in an academy that is lost is one kid that has to go to work to survive and never gets a chance at baseball.