Greinke to the Angels for SS Jean Segura and two AA prospects, according to Robothal.

EDIT: AA prospects are Ariel Pena and Johnny Heilweg.

Greinke to the Angels for SS Jean Segura and two AA prospects, according to Robothal.

EDIT: AA prospects are Ariel Pena and Johnny Heilweg.

Wow. That seems like a pretty massive steal for the Halos. Segura's stock has fallen a fair bit. I've heard of Pena and Heilweg, but they're not names that stick with me as significant.

Cripes, if that's what Greinke nets, maybe I (and the Cubs) are nuts thinking Webster + more is a fair deal for Dempster.

EDIT: Looking at Segura's line, he hit well in AA this year. I guess I'm just remembering him being yanked around between SS and 2B.

Hard to believe the White Sox weren't more involved if that was the price. Jeez, mediocre return at best from what I can tell.

Cripes, if that's what Greinke nets, maybe I (and the Cubs) are nuts thinking Webster + more is a fair deal for Dempster.

Well, remember: a half-season rental in the post-CBA world (no comp draft pick) is still a half-season rental with no comp pick, regardless of how good a pitcher we're talking about.

Also, the Angels sent the #2, #4, and #9 prospects in their farm system to the Brewcrew, according to the BA rankings. It ain't Mike Trout, but that's still not TOO shabby.

Also, the Angels sent the #2, #4, and #9 prospects in their farm system to the Brewcrew, according to the BA rankings. It ain't Mike Trout, but that's still not TOO shabby.

OK, yeah - I think I Kruk'ed 252... I had a lower opinion of Segura than I should have and I generally seem to run a season behind on AL prospect lists. I guess that's a pretty decent haul.

Hard to believe the White Sox weren't more involved if that was the price.

They don't have any prospects.

Braves would have given up their 2,4 and 9 prospects, and thrown in 10, too.

Fair enough. But in maintaining his unnecessarily selfish (IMO, of course) position, over only a couple months (not to mention a chance at a title), Dempster should make sure his reasons are sufficient to accept whatever disapproval comes his way from Cubs fans.

And the Cubs aren't being selfish? The Cubs crafted a team that was guaranteed to suck and their plan was to trade their chits in at some point for players that they could control for the next handful of years. How is that being fair to Dempster? How isn't that being selfish and how isn't that shafting the veterans on the Cubs? Work hard guys and in a few months we're going to subject you to a media frenzy over trade rumors and then uproot you from the life you have known for many years.


Well, Dempster has undoubtedly gotten a lot of contributions and support based on his celebrity and the goodwill he has built up. If his decision damages that goodwill, then what's good for the goose is good for the gander

Suck it, cancer #######!

Braves would have given up their 2,4 and 9 prospects, and thrown in 10, too.

No way do they send chipper to milwaukee in that deal.

what's good for the goose is good for the gander

This phrase means something other than the way you are using it here.

The Cub clubhouse water cooler is the greatest ongoing storyline in sports.

The Cub clubhouse water cooler is the greatest ongoing storyline in sports.

I'm surprised a social worker hasn't attempted to put it in a foster home on account of all the physical abuse.

No way do they send chipper to milwaukee in that deal.

very good. On the other hand, maybe they want him to end his career in the City where he started.

McCoy/#258, I know that teams do what is in their best interest. But it's not the same for a player on a team. The player, while he is on a team, is expected to do what is best for the team. That is the sentiment that has been around for a century, and is still deemed the correct attitude for a player (and soldier) to have.

So IMO Dempster's selfishness and the Cubs selfishness are not equivalent.

And sure he has the right to block the trade, but the fans and writers should certainly let him know that 'there is no I in team".

McCoy/#258, I know that teams do what is in their best interest. But it's not the same for a player on a team. The player, while he is on a team, is expected to do what is best for the team. That is the sentiment that has been around for a century, and is still deemed the correct attitude for a player (and soldier) to have.

So IMO Dempster's selfishness and the Cubs selfishness are not equivalent.

And sure he has the right to block the trade, but the fans and writers should certainly let him know that 'there is no I in team".

If anything summarizes why I think the Dempster bashers are insane*, this is it. It's all right for the Cubs (and by extension, their fans) to be selfish because they have some theoretical baseball games to win down the road. But Ryan Dempster, on a decision that only affects where he's going to live and work for the next 60 days, well he's got to get over that self-centered attitude right quick.

And, of course, it ignores the fact that why should Ryan Dempster want to make the team that's trading him away better? If he's getting dumped, shouldn't he only be thinking of what's good for his next team?

* Don't get me wrong, I think fans of a lot of teams would do the exact same thing. The insanity isn't limited to the north side.

If anything summarizes why I think the Dempster bashers are insane*, this is it. It's all right for the Cubs (and by extension, their fans) to be selfish because they have some theoretical baseball games to win down the road. But Ryan Dempster, on a decision that only affects where he's going to live and work for the next 60 days, well he's got to get over that self-centered attitude right quick.

Do you think this reaction would be the same if Dempster said all along that he would refuse any trades anywhere?

I think it would be different, but not by much. Obviously, there wouldn't have been a specific trade worked out with a specific prospect coming back for fans to be disappointed about, but I think there still would have been the talk radio "selfish bastard" chatter.

Do you think this reaction would be the same if Dempster said all along that he would refuse any trades anywhere?

No, probably not*. But I think a lot of Cubs fans have convinced themselves that Dempster never had any intention of ever playing for the Braves and that he led the Cubs on**, rather than the more benign explanation that he simply had a change of heart the closer the deal came to reality (either because of something about Atlanta or the fact that LA became a more realistic destination in his mind to the point that going elsewhere was no longer appealing). I suppose one needs a villain when his hopes get dashed, so he just looks around until he finds one.

The point is, this is a decision that, believer it or not, really only affects Ryan Dempster. His life is not equal to a few unproductive hours for Theo and Jed (who will spend many unproductive hours on their own) or Cubs' fans temporary lifted spirits. That's the calculation a lot of fans seem to be missing. If we don't think Ryan Dempster is justified in being selfish about a decision that affects him considerably more than it affects anyone else (well, other than Delgado), then it might be time to question our priorities.

* Though you'd still hear some grumbling. Don't ever underestimate the capacity for sports fans to lack perspective.

** Why he would do this is never fully explained.

If Dempster had said from the beginning that he would not accept any trades at all he would have gotten skewered the whole season long instead of merely getting all of the hate focused on him over a few days. So while it wouldn't be as intense it would still be there every single day like a toothache.

264. salviaman Posted: July 28, 2012 at 07:25 AM (#4194380)

McCoy/#258, I know that teams do what is in their best interest. But it's not the same for a player on a team. The player, while he is on a team, is expected to do what is best for the team. That is the sentiment that has been around for a century, and is still deemed the correct attitude for a player (and soldier) to have.

wow

just wow

a baseball player is no more a soldier than a plumber who works for a plumbing company is. i never stop being amazed at how people really REALLY think the old reserve clause rules should still apply and a player who has any interest in his own life is A Bad Guy.

where are all these public statements from dempster that he would accept a trade to ANY contender from BEFORE the atlanta trade was publically announced?

where are all these public statements from dempster that he would accept a trade to ANY contender from BEFORE the atlanta trade was publically announced?

He didn't say any contender, but he had given preliminary indications to Cubs management that he would accept a trade to the Braves. That's one reason why they Cubs were negotiating with the Braves.

dag

i don't know what "preliminary indications" exactly means. i have seen teams work trades behind players backs then try to force them into agreeing.

has dempster himself said on the record that he agreed in any way then changed his mine? i know ALL about "sources"

I'm still not holding this against Dempster. I don't think any of us know exactly what he indicated to the FO about potential trades to the Braves. Even if he indicated one thing and then changed his mind, I don't have a problem with it. Is it Dempster's job to carefully scope out every potential trade destination beforehand and decide whether or not it's to his liking? No, it is not, and his five and ten rights guarantee that. So Atlanta doesn't sound so bad at first, and then he thinks about it, maybe talks to some people, and it doesn't sound so great anymore. And for a guy with little kids, one of them with a serious medical issue, changing teams for two months, on top of not knowing where he will be next season, is a big deal. Could he have handled this better? Probably, but it's really not his job to be managing his own trade.

bbc - I'm not sure Dempster has said anything on the record, aside from his one tweet.