And southern cal deserves kiffen

Ex. B on why not to bet bowl games. Who the hell saw Baylor's D playing like this? Pretty impressive finish for Baylor. This team lost two games this season scoring 50+ points.

Beamer, VT, look tired.

They looked like that for much of the year, afaict.

Baylor is really good now, the QB took awhile to get going, but right now they are playing like a top 15 team.
And the VT vs Rutgers game was just not fun. It had to be miserable to be there in that rain, and those defenses might have been good, but those offenses were awful.

The Tech vs Minny game is starting fun, Minnesota is looking good with power running formations.

And the VT vs Rutgers game was just not fun. It had to be miserable to be there in that rain, and those defenses might have been good, but those offenses were awful.

Yeah, that was an affront to offensive football. Rutgers needs to get a new OC ASAP, that was a pathetic showing.

The Tech vs Minny game is starting fun, Minnesota is looking good with power running formations.

Yeah, they are hanging tough. I have to say I didn't expect that.

That dull finish on the Minnesota helmets look like a leather helmets to me.

GARY NOVA IS THE WORST QB IN HISTORY. THAT IS ALL.

The box score and drive chart in that game is high comedy. 20 punts, 350 yards in 4 qtrs, 28-65 passing at one point, 5 turnovers, I swear there were 15 incomplete passes thrown out of bounds. The 3 and outs or less were in the high teens.

Minnesota-Texas Tech was an entertaining game. Tech pulls out the win...

another in the extremely long list of pretty painful Gopher losses in football. BIG needs some help to scrap its rep.

2061 - I think that yesterdays game should have helped the B1G's rep. Minny went 2-6 in conference and played a tight game with a pretty good team in the latter's neighborhood. The only way the B1G can fix its rep is to not be so good at selling bowl tickets. They are never going to see a set of evenly matched bowls.

cmd600 - that isn't why this bowl wasn't evenly matched. They weren't evenly matched because the Big 12 is the deeper, better conference. And 2 of the better schools weren't eligible for bowls. I think that Minnesota should be congratulated for playing a team close that they were not as good at. At the end of the day - for better or worse (worse, IMO) - bowl records are pretty much what people look to at the end of the year to say "which conferences are best".

I'm really looking forward to Texas/Oregon State. Looks like Jordan Hicks, Texas' best linebacker who has missed almost all year, and Case McCoy got sent home related to sexual assault allegations. That's... not good.

Looks like Jordan Hicks, Texas' best linebacker who has missed almost all year, and Case McCoy got sent home related to sexual assault allegations. That's... not good.

They grow 'em up right in Texas!

cmd600 - that isn't why this bowl wasn't evenly matched.

He didn't say that was the case here. And obviously the Big 10 is way down this year. But by and large, it's true. The Big 10 tends to be scheduled up in bowl games because the schools travel well.

He didn't say that was the case here. And obviously the Big 10 is way down this year. But by and large, it's true. The Big 10 tends to be scheduled up in bowl games because the schools travel well.


Evidence? Seems like if you could argue any conference gets scheduled up it is the SEC.

Evidence? Seems like if you could argue any conference gets scheduled up it is the SEC.

The existing tie-ins are pretty even for all the conferences. 3s play 2/3s, 4s play 3/4s or 4/5s, etc.

However, the Big 10 has earned the most at-large selections to BCS bowl berths in the BCS era at 11 (followed by the SEC with 10 - no other conference is close). Those at-large selections have the result of pulling up lower ranked conference teams into better bowl games from top to bottom (and those bowl games don't balk because the Big Ten schools tend to travel better).

Moreover, considering the two leagues respective performances over the past dozen or so years, it's pretty clear that the SEC teams aren't playing up in these other bowl games - they're playing teams with similar portfolios (the No. 3 team in the SEC is generally considered better or equal to the No. 2 in most other conferences, and deservedly so). The same can't be said about the Big Ten.

So yes, the Big Ten teams are scheduled up in bowl games more than any other league, which is one reason (though not the only one) for their shoddy record/reputation.

They weren't evenly matched because the Big 12 is the deeper, better conference.

To be fair, almost every school in the Big 10 is roughly two bowls above the level it should be this year; thank you Ohio State and Penn State.

To be fair, almost every school in the Big 10 is roughly two bowls above the level it should be this year; thank you Ohio State and Penn State.


Yes, which I tried to acknowledge in the next sentence - but it was pretty poorly worded.

As for the scheduling up - I think the main thing is that outside of a couple of pre-January 1 bowls - like the Alamo Bowl, Holiday Bowl, other random good match ups like Boise/Louisville - the conference reputation is won and lost in the big bowls. For the Big 10, that is currently the Outback, Capital One, and Gator Bowl (I apparently didn't realize they had the Gator Bowl tie-in), plus the BCS games. These are the bowls they're consistently losing, and they're not scheduling up in them.

For the Big 10, that is currently the Outback, Capital One, and Gator Bowl (I apparently didn't realize they had the Gator Bowl tie-in), plus the BCS games. These are the bowls they're consistently losing, and they're not scheduling up in them.

Yes, they are. By routinely getting an at-large berth into the BCS (berths themselves that may not always be warranted in a true merit-based world), their No. 3 is moving up to No. 2, their No. 4 to No. 3, No. 5 to No. 4 for the Outback, Capital One and Gator. Couple that with the fact the conference hasn't been on par with the SEC and Big 12 for much of that time frame, and the Big Ten teams are typically playing better teams, on paper, in these bowl games.

So, yeah, 2012 is a bad year for the B1G because of the tattoo parties and the little boy rapers, but outside of this year isn't the argument that the B1G "schedules up" for bowl games really "the B1G isn't deep enough to compete in as many bowls as they attend?

The whole SEC is great and Big 10 sucks has started over the last 5 or so years. In that time, the SEC is getting an at-large berth every or near every year as well. Throw in the fact that the best non-BCS team from the SEC plays the Big 12 half the time and it's just not true that the Big 10 is scheduling up. That's the thing - most of the big time games these two conferences play are against each other.

I don't consider even scheduling as simple as #4 B1G vs #4 any other conference. The B1G has been the 3rd or 4th best conference recently, but gets the second (and far ahead of #3) best set of bowl tie ins. Of the four major non-BCS New Year's bowls (Cotton, Cap One, Outback, Gator), the SEC has 4 slots, The B1G has 3, and the Big 12 has 1 (and obviously the Pac 12 has none). The B1G is in zero danger of losing those equivalent-of-prime-time games to teams from the Big and Pac 12s, that are probably more deserving, because they sell tickets. Nobody who makes money off these games cares that both Nebraska and Michigan are playing teams ranked noticeably higher, because well, Nebraska and Michigan. The bowls would much rather have them than plenty of higher ranked teams. They're playing up.

So, yeah, 2012 is a bad year for the B1G because of the tattoo parties and the little boy rapers, but outside of this year isn't the argument that the B1G "schedules up" for bowl games really "the B1G isn't deep enough to compete in as many bowls as they attend?

That's a small reason, sure. Part of that is because the Big Ten draws better for bowl games than other conferences, thus making them more attractive than their resume suggests. You know, what cmd said to begin with.

The whole SEC is great and Big 10 sucks has started over the last 5 or so years. In that time, the SEC is getting an at-large berth every or near every year as well. Throw in the fact that the best non-BCS team from the SEC plays the Big 12 half the time and it's just not true that the Big 10 is scheduling up. That's the thing - most of the big time games these two conferences play are against each other.

Christ Spivey, you asked for evidence and I gave it to you. If I'd known you were just going to ignore it, I'd have saved myself the trouble of looking that #### up.

And yes, the SEC has had an excellent run of at-large selections. You'd be hard-pressed to find any that weren't warranted, and in fact, like this year, probably have other teams that are more deserving of a BCS appearance than teams that got them. They're not getting scheduled up in the bowl games.

most of the big time games these two conferences play are against each other

Only for the Big Ten and SEC. The Big 12 doesn't get big games like those two do, and the Pac 12 plays even fewer.

Is anyone beside wvu and cuse fans watching the pinstripe bowl. Its really unwatchable so far.

I don't think the Gator Bowl is better than the Holiday or Alamo. In terms of ratings or quality of teams. The ChikFilA/Peach should be in the discussion as well.

Christ Spivey, you asked for evidence and I gave it to you. If I'd known you were just going to ignore it, I'd have saved myself the trouble of looking that #### up.

I don't think your evidence supports your point though. That the Big10 has the most atlarge selections is an important fact, but has nothing to do with this specific point. They are - in the meaningful bowls - mainly matched up with SEC or a BCS team and they aren't scheduled up in those bowls.

I'm watching the Pinstripe bowl. It hasn't been exciting from what I've seen. But I like seeing a bowl game in shitty weather. WVU pissed away some serious offensive talent this year. Without the big 3 next year, they could extremely struggle.

And yes, the SEC has had an excellent run of at-large selections. You'd be hard-pressed to find any that weren't warranted, and in fact, like this year, probably have other teams that are more deserving of a BCS appearance than teams that got them. They're not getting scheduled up in the bowl games.

I guess we may be saying different things about what scheduled up means. I mean #X team from the Big 10 plays #Y conference from another conference.

I don't think your evidence supports your point though. That the Big10 has the most atlarge selections is an important fact, but has nothing to do with this specific point. They are - in the meaningful bowls - mainly matched up with SEC or a BCS team and they aren't scheduled up in those bowls.

Yes, it does. The fact that the Big Ten has gotten more at-large selections in the BCS, itself often driven by the league's teams ability to travel well, means that its third-best team is filling the spot that should go to the league's second-best team, the fourth-best team is taking the place that should go to the third-best team, etc. Since the league hasn't been any better than the second-to-fourth best during this time frame (the SEC being the consistent No. 1, with the Pac 10, Big 12 and Big 10 rotating into the other spots), the Big 10 teams are, on average, playing up.

Unless you think the Big 10 has been the best league in the BCS era, I don't know you could argue that, on average, it's teams aren't playing up at bowl time.

In contrast, the league you mentioned initially, the SEC, is probably playing down, though that's based entirely on the league's strength.

I guess we may be saying different things about what scheduled up means. I mean #X team from the Big 10 plays #Y conference from another conference.

I'm using it in the way cmd used it in the post that started the conversation. The Big Ten teams end up playing teams better than themselves at bowl time. There are several reasons to explain why that happens in a given season, though the year-after-year reason for it is the league's teams' ability to sell tickets to its bowl games at a better rate than the schools from other leagues, which makes them more attractive invites.

In contrast, the league you mentioned initially, the SEC, is probably playing down, though that's based entirely on the league's strength.

Well, yeah, the SEC plays down, except for the years they play each other in BCS games, I guess.

Well, yeah, the SEC plays down, except for the years they play each other in BCS games, I guess.

If one is plural, then sure.

Hey, the SEC has been the best league. Now it's easy to take that simple truth too far (for example, thinking Georgia warranted the No. 3 ranking before the SEC title game), but it's been the best league for quite some time, which means that its teams will typically be matched up against lesser foes in the bowl games.

I'm watching the Pinstripe bowl. It hasn't been exciting from what I've seen. But I like seeing a bowl game in shitty weather. WVU pissed away some serious offensive talent this year. Without the big 3 next year, they could extremely struggle.

I'm not so sure. I think Austin and Bailey are special receivers and Geno is alright, but this isn't a special offense. They aren't doing anything today, they have been entirely shutdown at times this season but unimpressive defenses. They are extremely thin on offense this year and it showed every time they faced a team without Bailey or when a team had enough depth in the secondary to cover the only two play makers on that side of the ball. I know they were a top 20 offense this year, but a lot of that production came against crappy defenses. If Holgorsen is who he should be, they will be fine on offense next year and better on defense. Of course, at this point, I don't expect them to do better than 6-6, maybe 7-5, with two wins against FCS teams (and I wouldn't be shocked to see Georgia Southern beat them).

I really don't like this team right now, and they deserve to lose, but the refs have been awful today.

Edit: Mother of God, I hate this ####### team. Ever seen a screen before you ########?

It's easy to forget how bad WVU's defense is when you're not watching them play.

Geno Smith appeared to be clearly tripped on that play.

Two safeties. Wow, I don't remember seeing that before. Well, after three weeks to fix their problems, they have accumulated an absurd number of penalties, the line play is worse, the running game has disappeared, the run defense which had previously been a relative strength collapsed, and the pass defense still can't make a play. Maybe it's time to start looking hard at the coaching staff.

And another ####### penalty, this time on a kickoff. Game over, season over, good riddance.

WVU is embarrassing themselves and the Big 12. They did not come to play in this game.

Hey, the SEC has been the best league.

For about a decade now, yes. Obviously so.

Now it's easy to take that simple truth too far (for example, thinking Georgia warranted the No. 3 ranking before the SEC title game),

UGA played a Bama team that will destroy ND to a stalemate, more or less.

UGA played a Bama team that will destroy ND to a stalemate, more or less.

Oh, they were being ranked based on what was going to happen. Gotcha.

Prior to the SEC title game, Georgia beat one outstanding team all year in an ugly game, and got smoked by the only other good team on its schedule. They had no business bieng ranked where they were. One would have to be seriously deranged to argue otherwise.

Big Ten scheduling up reminds me of the 2010 Capital One Bowl game when an Alabama team that finished 4th in the SEC West had to play the Big Ten co-champions in that game. You can only guess who was scheduling up for that one....

Jesus Christ David Ash annoys me.

Well Oregon State just got screwed right there.

Fancy clock management there by Reiley. Boy, that was amateurish.

So, I've been thinking the Big 12 wasn't as good as the computers suggest. Baylor helped temper that feeling, but the first six quarters of Big 12 football today have reestablished that feeling. I don't feel especially good about the other games, except for maybe TCU vs. MSU.

Well Oklahoma State should manhandle Purdue.

But I do tend to think that the Big 12 is overmatched in the top games. Part of that is because Oregon is in the discussion for the best team in the country. I think A&M is better than Oklahoma, as well. The Big 12 was thought highly of by the computers in a lot of respects because it was so deep.

If Texas showed some willingness to throw the ball downfield I think they'd have success here. At the very least, they can't run on Oregon State because they're 100% committed to stopping it. Just like Oklahoma and half the other teams they've played.

On an Alabama message board I saw someone make the comment that if Texas A&M played in the Big 12 this year they would have been playing for the title. Don't think that is true at all...but an interesting thought.

Two safeties. Wow, I don't remember seeing that before.

3 Safeties

I think there was another 3 safety game a couple years ago, but can't remember who was playing. Don't forget the classic Iowa v Penn State, 6-4 thriller in 2004.

2090- that's a pretty nifty description. Both were the 3rd team taken from their conference and Bama was ranked higher coming into the game.

Well Oklahoma State should manhandle Purdue.

Oh yeah, forgot about that one.

Part of that is because Oregon is in the discussion for the best team in the country. I think A&M is better than Oklahoma, as well. The Big 12 was thought highly of by the computers in a lot of respects because it was so deep.

Well, that and the entire conference mostly took care of business against bad teams. But other than the UCLA win, they have done very little OOC. I guess it's a conference full of good to decent teams with no top. But a lot of these teams appear to be more decent than good (WV, Texas Tech, Texas).

On an Alabama message board I saw someone make the comment that if Texas A&M played in the Big 12 this year they would have been playing for the title. Don't think that is true at all...but an interesting thought.

I seriously doubt that. A&M was up and down this year. They would have run into less great teams, but this is a team that almost loss to Ole Miss and LA Tech. I'm sure at least one Big 12 team, and probably two, would get them on their off weeks. They probably have the same record playing so many bowl teams.

that's a pretty nifty description. Both were the 3rd team taken from their conference and Bama was ranked higher coming into the game.

Ah so 4th in the SEC West is equal to Big Ten co-champs.

The only reason Alabama was playing in that game is because they couldn't hold a 24 point lead at home against the Cam Newtons.