If we've learned one thing about Edwin Jackson over the years, it's that he will be traded 42 times during those four years.

The Cubs are in desperate need of pitching cromulence, but four years seems a little excessive.

So, WTF didn't KC beat this? He obviously didn't demand to play for a winner.

The Cubs also apparently got Carlos Villanueva for 2/10. They should certainly have better depth in the rotation than they had last year, whatever that's worth.

So, WTF didn't KC beat this? He obviously didn't demand to play for a winner.

Obviously cause Shields is an ace and EJax ain't.

He's been a league average starter with "above average stuff" for 10 years. Last year he was exactly what he is for his career. So, he'll be paid for his stuff rather than his performance.

So, WTF didn't KC beat this? He obviously didn't demand to play for a winner.

They have like 9 starting pitchers already.

So Shields + Davis > EJax + Myers + Odorrozzi + Montgomery + Leonard?

So, WTF didn't KC beat this? He obviously didn't demand to play for a winner.

IIRC, Edwin turned down 3/30 from the Pirates last year. Not that the Cubs are all that more appealing, but he's already shown he's not going to take the highest offer just because.

Anyway, I will believe this when Edwin actually signs on the dotted line. There have been too many guns that have been jumped concerning the Cubs this offseason.

I liked the other Mike Morgan better...

IIRC, Edwin turned down 3/30 from the Pirates last year

He turned down a lowball offer from the Pirates. He just signed with adores team than KC because they overpaid.

Lol, another $13mil/yr contract.

He turned down a lowball offer from the Pirates.

How is 3/30 lowball when he eventually signed for 1/11? Sure, the Pirates offered a lower AAV but the guaranteed money was much higher. Or do you mean the Pirates offered much less?

Boy, GMs really must hate knuckleballers.

So who all do they have as a sp? Garza, BPJ, Wood, Jackson, Villanueva, then who is 5th?

also stewart resigned 1 year 2mil, with 500k in incentives

You mean 6th?

So, WTF didn't KC beat this? He obviously didn't demand to play for a winner.

would you rather live in chicago or kansas city? both teams may be equally terrible on the field, but if the money's equal, wouldn't you prefer to live in chicago over KC? or in washington instead of pittsburgh?

Boy, GMs really must hate knuckleballers.

Seriously. What are the odds that Jackson puts up more WAR from 2013-2016 than Dickey puts up over 2014-2015?

Add Baker and Feldman to that list, meat.

The Cubs have some genuine depth on the pitching staff. Now they need to do something about that outfield.

I don't think Garza makes it to opening day on the cubs roster at this point. with all the sp's they have they might as well trade him now getting as much as you can instead of waiting til the deadline. Arodys Visciano will be active in the second half at some point so thats another sp to add to the mix.

would you rather live in chicago or kansas city? both teams may be equally terrible on the field, but if the money's equal, wouldn't you prefer to live in chicago over KC? or in washington instead of pittsburgh?

No and yes. The Royals would have been more likely to contend in 2013 than the Cubs if they still had Myers and Odorizzi plus Jackson. As a city in which to live, I think I am less impressed with Chicago than just about anyone I know. Clearly the Nats had a better chance to win than the Pirates, although the Pirates hung in there pretty well for a while.

I don't think Garza makes it to opening day on the cubs roster at this point. with all the sp's they have they might as well trade him now getting as much as you can

Doesn't he have to prove he's healthy first?

The Cubs have some genuine depth on the pitching staff. Now they need to do something about that outfield.

I have a Jerry Dipoto on line 2 about a Vernon Wells.

How is 3/30 lowball when he eventually signed for 1/11? Sure, the Pirates offered a lower AAV but the guaranteed money was much higher.

And he was more interested in maxing out his AAV. Correctly, as the new contract demonstrates.

I'm not sure why so many of my fellow Pirates fans have trouble understanding this. If he thinks he's worth more than $10M per, then the extra years are a negative for him, not a positive.

The Cubs already have a Vernon Wells, thankyouverymuch.

or in washington instead of pittsburgh?

I'd rather live in Pittsburgh, as you can tell from the fact that I live there. It's actually a pretty nice town, the cost of living is very low, and unlike DC, there's a good chance you won't be murdered.

I'd rather live in Pittsburgh, as you can tell from the fact that I live there. It's actually a pretty nice town, the cost of living is very low, and unlike DC, there's a good chance you won't be murdered.

but unlike in pittsburgh, in DC there's a good chance that your french fries won't be ruined by mayonnaise.

so, i'd call that a wash.

I'm not sure why so many of my fellow Pirates fans have trouble understanding this. If he thinks he's worth more than $10M per, then the extra years are a negative for him, not a positive.

Only if he thinks he has no chance of getting hurt or just pitching poorly, or he is risk-loving rather than risk-averse.

I know Jackson is one of those pitchers who can be maddening to watch because of command issues, but he was a treat to watch in his lone season with the Tigers. The first four months, anyway.

Obviously it was the right move to pass up 3/30 for 1/11 now he has 4/52

but unlike in pittsburgh, in DC there's a good chance that your french fries won't be ruined by mayonnaise.

Mayonnaise is the correct condiment for french fries.

How is 3/30 lowball when he eventually signed for 1/11? Sure, the Pirates offered a lower AAV but the guaranteed money was much higher. Or do you mean the Pirates offered much less?

It's called a "pillow offer", a standard strategy (ESP. W/Boras) whereby FAs unhappy with long term offers take a one year gambling that they will get better offers in a year. And it worked like a charm here.

The Pirates were bad enough that they needed to offer a premium last year and didn't. If they had offered $40m/3 they likely would have Jackson pitching for them.

KC likely could have gotten Jackson for a similar deal as Cubs, considering how much closer hey were to competing, and not gutted their farm system. But they chose to "go for it" next year in the dumbest and most expensive manner possible,

The Cubs have some genuine depth on the pitching staff. Now they need to do something about that outfield.

Alfonso Soriano is available.

Ladies and gentlemen, introducing the worst Chicago Cubs team of all time.

So the Mayans were right after all.

Actually, although I'm not exactly thrilled about it, the Jackson signing brings this year's staff up to the level of last year's staff and they do have more depth. But they managed to lose a ton with last year's staff too.

He's been a league average starter with "above average stuff" for 10 years. Last year he was exactly what he is for his career. So, he'll be paid for his stuff rather than his performance.

4 years is probably one too many but this is what "league average starters" (he's a bit better than that) get paid. Past durability is no guarantee of future durability but 200 innings a year of 100 ERA+ is a godsend. This is half Greinke's price (compare the stats), a smidgen less than Dempster's AAV, less than Sanchez, less than Buehrle, the same as Wandy, a smidgen more than Haren's AAV, a little more AAV than Arroyo, the same as ESantana this year. It's probably what Garza would have gotten this year if he hadn't gotten hurt (as is, he'll cost $10 M at least).

Anyway, it's at least a small shift in Theo's strategy. I'm not sure it's a good one at this point -- I advocated something closer to this approach last offseason but, after last year's sell-off of what few assets we had, I'm not sure the best strategy isn't to stick with the "suck until we're good again" approach.

But any move which makes it less likely Coleman ever starts a single game in a Cub uniform again can't be all bad.


EDIT: and it's not mayonnaise, that's gross. It's "garlic aioli" which is mayo with some garlic in it. Sour cream with some spices or sour cream with salsa are also acceptable. Then ketchup. For whatever reason, gravy is right out. Gravy always works with potatoes you think, but not with fries. 'Tis a mystery.

Interesting:

Villanueva: one of the few remaining true swingmen with (ignoring 2010) with 135 appearances, 35 starts and 328 IP for 2009-12
Camp: 217 appearances 2010-112, 4th most IP of any "pure" reliever 2010-12
plus some combo of Feldman, Baker, Wood (barring a Garza trade)
Garza, Jackson, BPJ could total 600+ IP

Maybe the Cubs are planning on a 10-man staff. :-)

A Garza trade seems a hard thing to pull off, even without the injury. There were a lot of Garza types on the market this offseason (we just signed one) and Shields (and Buehrle and Johnson who are a cut above) were traded. Anybody who wanted Garza has had plenty of chances to strike. I won't rule it out -- somebody like Pittsburgh makes some sense if they really do have a hard time getting FAs to sign. A mid-season trade makes all sorts of sense -- prove he's healthy and some contender will need a Garza type pitcher by then.

It is funny, the Jays get Dickey for $41 (max) over 4 years (or $30 over 3) vs $52 for Jackson over the same 4 years. $11 million more for Jackson. Over the past 4 years Jackson has cracked a 100 ERA+ twice, peaking at 125 4 years ago. Dickey was sub 100 once, at the start of the 4 year period, and in the 3 years since was over 130 for ERA+ twice with 112 in the middle year.

As others said, the knuckleball is a very untrusted pitch.

Mayonnaise is the correct condiment for french fries.

Mayonnaise is not the correct condiment for anything. Mayonnaise would make a bowl of your own vomit taste worse.

Does Colin Kaepernick being a past Cubs draftee have any voodoo impact on the 49ers' chances in the playoffs this year?
This seems like the right place to ask.

It is funny, the Jays get Dickey for $41 (max) over 4 years (or $30 over 3) vs $52 for Jackson over the same 4 years. $11 million more for Jackson. Over the past 4 years Jackson has cracked a 100 ERA+ twice, peaking at 125 4 years ago. Dickey was sub 100 once, at the start of the 4 year period, and in the 3 years since was over 130 for ERA+ twice with 112 in the middle year.

As others said, the knuckleball is a very untrusted pitch.

And David Price will make less than Jackson next year, so giant 27-year-old great-pitching lefties are also untrusted.....

The Cubs already have a Vernon Wells, thankyouverymuch.

But they don't have the definitive Vernon Wells! All others are just imitations.

#38 ... some of that is FA vs. non-FA; some of that is using the leverage that Dickey is stuck with 1/$5; some of that is the upfront money Dickey's getting; and most of it is Dickey apparently preferring to be set for life than gamble on waiting a year to go FA. And your numbers overstate things in that Dickey was already stuck with $5 M for 2013 -- the AAV of the other 2/3 years is just $1 M behind Jackson. Still silly but $8 of the $11 M gap is essentially in year 1.

And I'm pretty sure the reluctance of some teams has a lot more to do with his age than the knuckleball. And the age immunity of knuckleballers is greatly exaggerated.

Candiotti -- never better than average from 36 on, 3.5 WAR 39-40
Wakefield -- solid but unspectacular, 3.7 WAR from 39-40
J Niekro -- 3.2 WAR from 39-40
P Niekro -- 16.6 WAR from 39-40!! (675 IP which Dickey might total over 3 seasons)
Hough -- 6.3 WAR from 39-40

None of them were particularly good after 40. Hough and Phil were certainly still at least useful and Phil had a couple very nice seasons mixed in with mediocrity. And Hough and Phil are the best of these pitchers and so closer to Dickey. But it's just far from certain that you'll get much better production from Dickey in 2014-15 than from Jackson.

And at ages 39-40, Dickey will be making more in raw dollars (not sure about constant) than Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz and Mussina (a bit less than Shilling, a lot less than Johnson and Clemens). Edwin Jackson will make $3.5 more than Javier Vazquez at the same ages and $16 M less than Anibal Sanchez. It's really a very different set of salary comps, yeah?

The Jays didn't just pay $$$ either, they paid prospects too. Some pretty damn good ones.

Mayonnaise is not the correct condiment for anything. Mayonnaise would make a bowl of your own vomit taste worse.

Quoted for truth.

Only if he thinks he has no chance of getting hurt or just pitching poorly

Yes, exactly. How many MLB players believe that they're going to suck and/or get hurt? Without a bigger-than-average ego, none of these guys would have been able to make it to the majors in the first place.

but unlike in pittsburgh, in DC there's a good chance that your french fries won't be ruined by mayonnaise.

Wha? I have literally never heard of anybody in Pittsburgh doing this.

I have no idea what's objectionable about mayonnaise. It's just fat and acid. Everybody likes fat and acid. Eggs, oil, lemon, mustard, whisk, salt you're done. It's simple and delicious.

Mayonnaise or aioli with fries is a French style. They go perfectly well together. If you were served mayo with fries, I assume it was somewhere French. I don't know of any American city with a tradition of serving fries with French style condiments, but there are a whole lot of French bistros and Belgian pubs across the country who will serve your fries that way.

What's this attack on mayo? Mayo and fries are great together and a tomato sandwich with mayo is nearly the perfect food. I won't stand for these insults on mayonnaise!

I have no idea what's objectionable about mayonnaise.

The taste. For me it's as simple as that, and it doesn't matter if it's fresh-made or store-bought. There's nothing objectionable about oatmeal, either, except that 99.99% of people who have it add something to it to give it a different, tolerable flavor. A mayo with an abundance of non-mayo flavor is fine. Mayo on its own is not. (For me.)

Mayo is the perfect condiment to keep sandwich bread from getting soggy. But when I add it I'm adding as little as possible so I don't taste it. If I go to, say, Wendy's I ask for no mayo because I don't trust them not to put more mayo than meat on it.

The thought of using fries as a mayo delivery vehicle for my mouth is making me gag right now.

I'm also a "salad with no dressing" kind of guy, but not because I don't like the flavor of dressing. Rather, I like the flavor of salad.

Mayonnaise would make a bowl of your own vomit taste worse.

I have one for you guys (zachtoma and Baldrick).

My office is directly across from the kitchenette (fridge, Keurig machine, microwave) area. A guy I used to work with, who was as big an eater as I've ever seen, would occassionally go on the Atkins diet to reduce his ~340 lbs. He usually always had a fair-sized plate of meat at 10 o'clock break, but this one day he grabbed a 2-lb toupie ham out of the fridge, cut it up into chunks and microwaved it, then dumped about 1/2 a cup of mayonnaise on it and took it back to his desk to eat. Might I mention he was our receptionist.

Somehow I still like mayonnaise after witnessing that.

I think I've mentioned this before on BBTF, but I have a cousin who was literally terrified of mayonnaise as a kid. If you two people came at him, one with a handful of dogshit and one with a handful of mayonnaise, he'd take his chances with the dogshit.

My office is directly across from the kitchenette (fridge, Keurig machine, microwave) area. A guy I used to work with, who was as big an eater as I've ever seen, would occassionally go on the Atkins diet to reduce his ~340 lbs. He usually always had a fair-sized plate of meat at 10 o'clock break, but this one day he grabbed a 2-lb toupie ham out of the fridge, cut it up into chunks and microwaved it, then dumped about 1/2 a cup of mayonnaise on it and took it back to his desk to eat. Might I mention he was our receptionist.

This just makes me happy I don't eat meat! Gross. Also, even when I still ate meat, I'd never put mayo on ham. Mayo is for chicken and turkey, mustard for ham and beef. I need to develop a curriculum about these simple facts to educate kids in the 2nd or 3rd grade. It really is more important than reading or math for a civilized society. IHMO, of course.

I have no idea what's objectionable about mayonnaise.

Wait for it...

It's...delicious.

See, that's your problem, right there.