as fair warning being both old and a farmer i have lots of stories and love telling them so be careful about asking because you will likely get 10 sentences when you were looking for one

my wife right now would be behind my shoulder waving her hands as warning to you.

so, you have been put on notice

trader

the boy had to share 'his near death experience' and of course mom had to know where i was in this situation.

all the kids have all their fingers and all their toes. i think i did my job as safety monitor

you will likely get 10 sentences when you were looking for one

This sounds like me, my brother, my father, my late grandfather, my uncles, my cousins, and any other male on that side of my family.

it's hogs (gap) horses (gap) cows (big gap) sheep

Yeah, sheep are pretty dumb. A lot of them won't even defend themselves.

Reminds me of a Terry Pratchett passage I quite like, regarding the use of shepherds as metaphors in religion:

The merest accident of microgeography had meant that the first man to hear the voice of Om, and who gave Om his view of humans, was a shepherd and not a goatherd. They have quite different ways of looking at the world, and the whole of history might have been different. For sheep are stupid, and have to be driven. But goats are intelligent, and need to be led.

- Terry Pratchett, Small Gods

This touches on what Zop is saying above. What he says is another way of saying since animals have no soul, we can do what we want with them.

No, that is not what I'm saying. There's nothing religious about it - and of course, once you mention the word "soul", you get Genesis quotes down thread and its all over.

I'm arguing that there is a difference in kind, not in degree, between human cognition and animal cognigition, since that humans have a sense of self and animals do not. This isn't some sort of radical, self-formed view - its a view popularized by, among others, Ian Tattersal (who argues not just that this ability is unique to humans, but a relatively recent development in hominid evolution).

what happened to the edit function. hard to fix typos without it.

My one personal experience with a pig was when I was a kid, and for some reason (I forget) in a pen wth one. I got a good snout-whack on my leg and I've had a healthy respect for the beasts ever since.

And to plug more British shows, I just saw the first episode of "Black Mirror", which modestly bills itself as a Twilight Zone for the Twitter age. The first one involves a royal family kidnapping with the ransom demand that the Prime Minister have sex with a pig on live television. I won't spoil the ending but I can say it is tastefully done. Also features a few Downton Abbey vets, plus Maester Luwin!

346 - well, more equal than others

Hw - I don't fully get why you're as defensive in these threads (not that I need to). Anyway, I'd love to hear your stories / insight.

Sandy - this distinction may not make sense to you, but... there's a difference from delighting in the hunt and delighting in causing the death of an animal. If that seems stupid or like semantics, I get that - but that's the idea here.

i was using that phrase way before the movie unforgiven

What character in the movie was based on your life? I have my suspicions... #harveysold

what happened to the edit function. hard to fix typos without it.

It's just not working for this thread. No idea why -- seems fine on the others I've had cause to use it on.

I've walked and crawled. Come get me chump!

"Things have learnt to walk that ought to crawl." -- H.P. Lovecraft, "The Festival"

Hw - I don't fully get why you're as defensive in these threads (not that I need to).

i don't think i understand the post

i do know i work proactively to cut off asinine responses and some interpret that as me being defensive or passive-aggressive or some such

but having been around bbtf i know most of the stupid ways posters like to play ah ha or gotcha and i don't like being branded a liar however oblique the reference

Fair enough.
In any case, lots (most?) of us are uninterested in playing gotcha. If you've something to say, please do. (I) consider this an opportunity for education.

Edit: I can edit, gef.

That's really odd. I've had occasion at least a half-dozen times in this thread to try editing something, but trying it just takes me to the top of the page.

Tried it again just now. Same thing.

The old farmer I worked for had a view of animals similar to zop's. He always had a team of horses, and worked them at least 3-4 times a week. Because he wanted to get the most work out of them, he always fed them the best hay, and gave them frequent rest periods on the hot days. But he also didn't hesitate to come down across their back with a 4' long stick of hornbeam if they did something he didn't like. He generally cared for them, but certainly didn't feel any kind of bond with them.

He was quite the taskmaster. When I worked their in the early 90's, they were one of the few dairy farms left in the region that hadn't upgraded to a pipeline milking system, so the milking machine was attached to the udder and suspended by a belt around the cow's abdomen, with a detachable stainless steel bucket clamped onto the milking machine. His grandsons used to carry the milk buckets to the tank to dump them. One evening the 11-year old was complaining that his arm hurt, but the grandfather told him shut up and stop complaining, so he finished the milking. They found out later that night that he actually was doing this with a broken arm.


Edit: I can edit too.

Rub it in, guys. Rub it in.

Edit:

Huh. Won't edit with Google Chrome or IE, will with Firefox (which I haven't been using here at work because I can't make the goddamned Snap.Do, or whatever it's called, default go away, & at home it keeps crashing), but again no such inconsistency on other threads. Odd.

One evening the 11-year old was complaining that his arm hurt, but the grandfather told him shut up and stop complaining, so he finished the milking. They found out later that night that he actually was doing this with a broken arm.

guilty as charged. i did that with a son with a broken wrist and another one who had busted his elbow.

hey, i worked an entire winter with a broken ankle so it's not like it was focused externally. the helping hand had pulled out the walk ramp too quick after loading the hogs in the trailer and i landed awkwardly on the ground. hurt like a sob and after finishing unloading at the market i went home for lunch and sort of fell into the chair at the dinner table. the wife insisted i see a doc. it was a clean break and he put on a cast. it got in the way of work so i cut it off the next day, wrapped up my ankle in a big stretch bandage and cinched my boot tight. it hurt like a mother888888888 for a few months but i managed. my ankle looks all wonky now but i had a business to run

HW, did you, at any point, rub dirt on it?

as a follow up it was apparently that story that my one nephew used as a motivator when he was invited to some uber training as part of being in an elite border patrol group and on the second day he busted his ankle and instead of accepting being dismissed did as he had heard from me and wrapped up his ankle tight every morning and gutted it through the morning runs, etc. when the 3 week training ended instead of immediately heading home he showed up at the local emergency room with his duffles. they had to re-break the andkle to set it properly

i love that story. he's one tough hombre

gef

nope. just drank a lot of gin to get to sleep. and i slept in the chair in the living room versus going upstairs

being a functional alcholic sometimes has its advantages

being a functional alcholic sometimes has its advantages

We have medical marijuana out here, it's a better pain killer & there's no hangover in the morning.

Der K (#358): Makes perfect sense, because I feel the same way - love the hunt, listening to the woods get quiet, seeing all the things I'm either too lazy or too impatient to wait for outside of deer season. However, if I shoot a deer (or anything else, but partridge just don't elicit the same degree of response), my thankfulness and satisfaction (not joy) are mixed with regret/sadness.

trader

you drink enough over time the hangover ceases to happen. but then i am pretty much mean and cantankerous naturally so maybe i was hung over and nobody could tell the difference. ha, ha.

yes, my wife was very glad when i retired from active farming. i quit smoking and my drinking cut back to recreational versus hard-core

my wife is an extraordinary woman.

sandy/373: for a lot of the "anti-hunting" crowd here, that's our whole point - we get that meat is murder, we agree that it is or at least can be more noble to be hunted down than are many other ways for them to die or us to raise and slaughter animals, we're just put off by when the thrill of the hunt crosses into something like sadism. (i also get differing responses depending on the animal, i'd feel a lot worse if hit a deer with my car than when a bug hits my windshield - everything's relative)
so, like i said upthread, there's jerks that hunt, there's jerks that don't hunt. if you're not a jerk, i got no beef with you. i don't think you're a jerk.

(i also have no beef with farming. i'm probably more pro-factory/large scale farm than most here.)

edit: this was edited with chrome, just to spite gef.

what do folks think of this running down an animal nonsense?

i have read on the internet that supposedly, and i do mean supposedly, it's a 'thing' now to try and run down an animal like a deer to emulate primitive hunters. that hard core runners engage in this activity.

i find something like this repugnant on multiple levels but have not confirmed whether it is actually happening or it's internet bs

i do know that if i can ascertain that it's real i am going to work to raise awareness. because i think hunters and animal lovers would be united that this sick, twisted behavior

edit: this was edited with chrome, just to spite gef.

I am hereby spited.

Spitten?

Spote?

Edit: And actually, I'm editing this on Chrome as well. Either something changed, or I'm an idiot.

Not that those two concepts are at all mutually exclusive.

i have read on the internet that supposedly, and i do mean supposedly, it's a 'thing' now to try and run down an animal like a deer to emulate primitive hunters. that hard core runners engage in this activity.

Haven't heard of this, I don't think. If it's happening, a few hardcore runners need shovels or similarly blunt, hard instruments upside the head.

gef

agreed.

i belong to any farmer organizations. i drop a dime or two and farmers will be on the lookout for these wingnuts and take their own shot claiming the runner is a trespasser.

this is sick, twisted stuff

Double post.

If that is happening, they're getting some antlers upside the head. But Usain Bolt jimself probably would have a shot very often, if at all.

I can believe a few idiots out there have tried it, hell, people pierce their genitals so any idiocy can occur in small numbers, but I just don't think this is a trend to worry about.

Bolt *wouldn't* have a shot


(my edit isn't working)

what do folks think of this running down an animal nonsense?

i have read on the internet that supposedly, and i do mean supposedly, it's a 'thing' now to try and run down an animal like a deer to emulate primitive hunters. that hard core runners engage in this activity.

i find something like this repugnant on multiple levels but have not confirmed whether it is actually happening or it's internet bs

i do know that if i can ascertain that it's real i am going to work to raise awareness. because i think hunters and animal lovers would be united that this sick, twisted behavior

You mean endurance hunting, where you essentially chase an animal on foot for hours until it becomes exhausted, whereupon you kill it with a knife?

I think it's much, much crueler to the animal than shooting it with a rifle, but I also think that only a tiny number of Americans have the physical and mental capacity to do such a thing. Especially with white tail deer; their habitat isn't really conducive to human style running. It's one thing to run a marathon on paved roads; it's something very different to chase a deer up and down a mountainside through thick forest.

I've never met anyone or met anybody who has met anyone who's tried this. I'm betting it's mostly internet BS with a sprinking of hard core nutjobs who'll actually do it.

I believe the current theory is that humans evolved to both walk upright and be hairless for exactly this type of hunting. That don't make it 'right', though.

what do folks think of this running down an animal nonsense?

i have read on the internet that supposedly, and i do mean supposedly, it's a 'thing' now to try and run down an animal like a deer to emulate primitive hunters. that hard core runners engage in this activity.

i find something like this repugnant on multiple levels but have not confirmed whether it is actually happening or it's internet bs

I know a lot of hardcore runners, and am often accused of being one myself. (Whether or not I am, I would leave in the eye of the beholder.)

Never heard of this.

i have read on the internet that supposedly, and i do mean supposedly, it's a 'thing' now to try and run down an animal like a deer to emulate primitive hunters. that hard core runners engage in this activity.

i find something like this repugnant on multiple levels but have not confirmed whether it is actually happening or it's internet bs

I read an article describing that way back in the 1970s. I think it was in Sports Illustrated.

Put me in the camp that thinks it's more urban legend than actual practice.

all

again, i hope so. i came across an active conversation on a chat forum where this was being discussed and one of the participants was kvethching about having to kill the deer if successful. i suggested to make things easier for all involved he kill himself instead

he did not think it was funny and when i posted i was not trying to be funny he was more upset

I'm sure there are a few people who do it. But if so, it is a behavior I would ascribe to "a few lunatics," rather than "hard core runners."

I think it's much, much crueler to the animal than shooting it with a rifle,

It's also insanely stupid, as the meat would be inedible.

I think it's much, much crueler to the animal than shooting it with a rifle,


It's also insanely stupid, as the meat would be inedible.

That too. It's fine if you're a paleolithic tribesman living on the plains, where your alternative is to go hungry or gnaw on a root, but here the alternative is better tasting meat and less animal cruelty. If you wanna test your heroic endurance, go do a triathlon.

read an article describing that way back in the 1970s. I think it was in Sports Illustrated.

Put me in the camp that thinks it's more urban legend than actual practice

Well, there was Randall Hill (WR for Miami Hurricanes in late 80s-1990) who famously told Pat Haden that he dreams of running with cheetahs and getting pulled over by the police for speeding (on foot presumably). Perhaps he's running after deer in his post-playing days.

Well, there was Randall Hill (WR for Miami Hurricanes in late 80s-1990) who famously told Pat Haden that he dreams of running with cheetahs and getting pulled over by the police for speeding (on foot presumably). Perhaps he's running after deer in his post-playing days.

I think it would be cooler if Hill were being run down by cheetahs. And after catching him, they batted him around like a cat does with a mouse.

Professional athletes are the most humonguously egocentric people on earth.

Professional athletes are the most humonguously egocentric people on earth.

That depends on whether or not you classify politicians as people.

There was an article a few years ago about some guys athletes out of one area in FLA who grew up chasing rabbits down. I don't remember the source, but some good football players came out of that region.

I always wonder what my grandpa could have done in the majors, since he could reliably bring down a rabbit with a thrown rock.

Sorry to resurrect this, but I just had to comment on the running down animals thing. I read or saw something once that claimed (and it makes sense) that humans are the only mammal that won't overheat, assuming outside temps aren't too high and they stay hydrated. An elite human long distance runner can supposedly outrun any other mammal, given a long enough race, because the animal will eventually overheat.

But as some have said, that meat would be pretty GD tough. Not as tough as Harvey though. I'm surprised that ankle hasn't given you a lot of problems. My wife fractured both her tibia and fibula at the ankle, and the stupid GP only noticed one of the breaks on the x-ray. They caught it a week later on a follow-up x-ray and immediately did surgery to put in a plate with 6 screws on one side and a 3" pin on the other side. They lasted about 18 months before the screws started coming out, so they removed all the hardware. Her ankle has been ###### since.

An elite human long distance runner can supposedly outrun any other mammal, given a long enough race, because the animal will eventually overheat

Kram & Dawson (in an article in Comparative Biochemistry and Physiology, 1998) note that as red kangaroos hop faster, their oxygen consumption doesn't go up. They can go as fast as 40 MPH, but at that rate they will eventually overheat, and they can probably also damage their tendons if they bounce along too fast, but they are in that one respect different from all other ground animals: they can go faster and faster at no metabolic "cost." They prefer to go into a kind of auto-glide where they just hop and hop for very long distances at about 15 MPH, exerting very little effort (their gait is so efficient).

I don't know why I find that so interesting, but it suggests that there isn't a lot to be gained by trying to run down a kangaroo :)