Oookay.... these people make the 'Obama wasn't born in the USA' crowd appear sane. Of course, I'm sure there is a LOT of crossover there too.

A sure sign of people with either super-easy to trick or have very low IQ's - believing this type of stuff. Probably also think Rose didn't bet on baseball still (just to bring it back to baseball of course).

Oh, Denard...

This is what we get for giving any credence to that Loose Change idiot and the "Bush blew up the levees during Katrina" crowd.

And the best part is these idiots are armed to the teeth with automatic weapons so when the finally lose their very tenuous grip on reality, the can take a shopping center worth of people down with them.

I guess Span wants to get traded to the D'Backs. Maybe he has a girlfriend in Phoenix or something.

And the best part is these idiots are armed to the teeth with automatic weapons so when the finally lose their very tenuous grip on reality, the can take a shopping center worth of people down with them.

That's what makes me glad to be an American!

This is what we get for giving any credence to that Loose Change idiot and the "Bush blew up the levees during Katrina" crowd.

9/11 was an inside job.

And the best part is these idiots are armed to the teeth with automatic weapons so when the finally lose their very tenuous grip on reality, the can take a shopping center worth of people down with them.

but it will turn out to be a gummint hoax

(makes you think)

Uh-oh...

Maybe he has a girlfriend in Phoenix or something.

Or Stanford.

I find some of that stuff totally bizarre but I'm also not comfortable with trying to bully anyone who doesn't immediately accept the official story about any event. There's a whole spectrum of skepticism possible, from "that's odd, why don't they explain X" to "It's just like the fake the fake moon landings!". How often does the official story about almost anything turn out to be 100% right? Seldom, IMO. So, just as I'm not comfortable with the "this is another Capricorn One!" position, the enthusiasm to denigrate questioning the official story is a bit uncomfortable too.

One of my apartmentmates is studying abroad for several months, and the guy she found to sublet, who seemed completely normal when I met him, turns out to be a total nutjob who believes in just about every conspiracy theory known to man. I've luckily avoided hearing his opinion on Sandy Hook, but he's a 9/11 truther, and thinks Kennedy was deliberately assassinated by the government and Lincoln was shot by his wife as part of a conspiracy. He also thinks most contemporary scientific theories are a crock, funded by special interest groups who make sure the data are manipulated; he thinks any disease can be cured by a proper nutritional regimen, tumors can be destroyed by injecting them with baking soda, and so on. Unfortunately, he's very intent on convincing me and my roommates of his "theories." I've learned to spend as much time as possible in the library and out of the apartment.

The way I see it, it's definitely acceptable to be skeptical of the official account of any major incident. It's most certainly true that the government has strong incentives to release a story that makes them look good (or less bad). However, I think it's patently ridiculous to pretend that you're absolutely certain of your conspiracy theory. The evidence available from "independent" sources is rarely trustworthy, because they too have every incentive to exaggerate and manipulate facts to fit a narrative. Plus, when you start believing in a whole litany of conspiracy theories, you're just no longer credible. At that point, it's quite obvious that you're not looking at the evidence from a neutral perspective - you're approaching it from the starting viewpoint that the government is evil, and the only people who have the real truth are the valiant, independent-minded crusaders who reside in the dark corners of the Internet.

Ridiculous can and should be dismissed out of hand. The idea that we give folks like this and the Westboro folks free press and a chance to spread their idiocy makes us weaker and dumber as a nation. Just like with the gun issue, we are far too beholden to stuff written 250 years ago by guys who could never have imagined the world we live in. The reverence for the founding fathers makes nearly any step towards smart and practical impossible.

I take all my views on government conspiracy from the X-Files Lone Gunmen origin episode: "The same government who gave us Amtrak, not to mention the Susan B. Anthony coin?"

The people who believe the government staged Sandy Hook, created Katrina and 9/11 and other batshit crazy ideas also think the government is incompetent. The cognitive dissonance is hilarious.

It's nice to have other people to feel superior to.

Hopefully Span is just thinking and wondering "WTF is wrong with some people?"

I take all my views on government conspiracy from the X-Files Lone Gunmen origin episode: "The same government who gave us Amtrak, not to mention the Susan B. Anthony coin?"

is there any way to watch "the lone gunmen" on streaming video? i do not think i've seen it on hulu or netflix or amazon, so i am beginning to believe that the existence of "the lone gunmen" is itself a conspiracy.

Or Stanford.

He said Stanford to impress people, but really they met at the University of Phoenix.

edited

And the best part is these idiots are armed to the teeth with automatic weapons

Nope.

15. DA Baracus uses plausible baseball judgment Posted: January 17, 2013 at 01:09 AM (#4348772)
The people who believe the government staged Sandy Hook, created Katrina and 9/11 and other batshit crazy ideas also think the government is incompetent.

Not sure there is a direct correlation. I don't believe in any of the conspiracy ideas you cited (or in the BS JFK theories) but I'm well aware that our government (like any bureaucracy) is fairly incompetent and highly inefficient. I was a government employee for 25 years and my wife has been one for 35 so far. With first hand experience it is much easier to accept reality of incompetence than it is to begin to comprehend the silly notion of more than a couple people keeping a secret. That is my problem with any of the various conspiracy ideas. They all require suspension of common sense and a child-like belief that dozens or hundreds of people could keep a secret. One person struggles to keep a secret. Every person involved beyond just one makes the chance of a secret staying secret exponentially unlikely.

is there any way to watch "the lone gunmen" on streaming video? i do not think i've seen it on hulu or netflix or amazon, so i am beginning to believe that the existence of "the lone gunmen" is itself a conspiracy.

The Lone Gunmen is a group on The X-Files that publishes an underground newspaper. The entire X-Files series is on Netflix.

There was also a Lone Gunmen series - it didn't last very long.

I had no idea there was a spinoff. I'll have to look that up.

There was also a Lone Gunmen series - it didn't last very long.

The pilot episode for the Lone Gunmen series was about a secret cabal in the government that wanted to start a war (and increase the military budget).

So they planned to manufacture a terrorist attack...

in New York...

by flying a commercial airliner...

into the World Trade Center.

The pilot aired in March 2001.

The pilot aired in March 2001.

and it aired on fox.


also, wasn't it the empire state building?

Nope.

Don't you dare interrupt your fasces-clinging betters while they're congratulating themselves on their expansive knowledge of guns. They're only trying to remind you of what a wonderful world we would have had firearms--all of which are fully automatic, as you well know--never been invented, much less had they never fallen into the hands of weirdos who believe outlandish things. Can you even fathom what the world might look like had guns never came to be? Why, with all those available job openings for serfs, we'd never have had to worry about high unemployment rates or soaring college tuition!

Talk about a progressive paradise.

Not sure why Span bothered to tweet this, but his statement doesn't actually take a clear position. With Clintonesque parsing, you could put him on any side of the issue, perhaps making him a good fit for Washington.

Whoops, wrong word

Sandy Hook "truthers? Now we know what many HOF voters do the other 11 months out of the year...

As for the government being behind 9-11, hoghwash. Using a plane to take down those towers was always a concern. In fact, Morgan Stanley's director of security, Rick Rescorla, and a friend of his (both highly decorated 'Nam vets), met and analyzed the threat risk to the towers following the underground garage bombing. Their conclusion was suicide attack by planes, which is why Rescorla instituted drills and proceedures which saved the lives of so many Morgan Stanley employees on Sept. 11. I highly recommend reading about Rick Rescorla- dude lived one fascinating life.

all of which are fully automatic

since people who aren't familiar with guns aren't familiar with this concept, i'd just like to mention that the reason select-fire exists in assault rifles is because the us government found out in vietnam that it is in fact much more deadly than fully automatic fire.

hard as that may be to believe, what they found out is that when rifles are fired in fully-automatic mode, the barrel of the rifle rises so quickly that any round fired after the first is woefully inaccurate (note, this is only true when you're holding the rifle without the support of a mount. when you mount an automatic weapon, it becomes more deadly by at least tenfold), and further, the holder of the weapon exhausts his ammunition much more quickly.



so, basically, because most legal assault rifles are semi-automatic instead of fully-auto, spree-shooters are both more accurate in their targeting and more capable of extending the terror their limited amount of ammunition can inflict.

The idea that we give folks like this and the Westboro folks free press and a chance to spread their idiocy makes us weaker and dumber as a nation. Just like with the gun issue, we are far too beholden to stuff written 250 years ago by guys who could never have imagined the world we live in.

No, just the opposite. There is no such thing as a great nation without free speech, and the founders imagined very clearly what kind of world we would be living in. Because, fundamentally, its exactly the same kind of world they were living in.

On conspiracy theories.

The country is better for having skeptics, even those who are a bit unreasonable and cross the line into weird. It's much preferable to a country where people accept the official story with no questions asked. That would be a very gullible country. I wish the skeptics were more vocal when Bush was selling war on Iraq. Skeptics force the information providers to do more to prove what they are telling us. The Sandy Hook crew is crossing another line with their harassment of the guy who helped out the kids fleeing from the scene. I don't know if they are committing any crimes, but if they are found i'd like to see their addresses, names, and phone numbers published.

I think calling the Sandy Hook truther people "skeptics" is giving them enough credit as to be rendered a completely inaccurate desciption of what they are doing. And I mean this without the harrassment you describe.

The Sandy Hook crew is crossing another line with their harassment of the guy who helped out the kids fleeing from the scene.

Questioning any official story is vital (it should be the media's No. 1 job) but this kind of thing is just plain stupid.

The Sandy Hook crew is crossing another line with their harassment of the guy who helped out the kids fleeing from the scene.

But he's the weak link! Can't keep his story straight for ten seconds! Exposing his lies will bring the whole house of cards crashing down!

"The same government who gave us Amtrak, not to mention the Susan B. Anthony coin?"

So you think it's a coincidence that Susan B. Anthony upside down looks exactly like Jacques de Molay, last Master of the Templars?

The country is better for having skeptics, even those who are a bit unreasonable and cross the line into weird. It's much preferable to a country where people accept the official story with no questions asked

Absolutely true. But I wonder if Trutherism in its many forms is really that sort of active skepticism that you and I would advocate. It seems to me more a non-skepticism. Anything occurs, anywhere, that could possibly be twisted into the plot of a conspiracy novel, and a Truther will pop up to so twist it. It doesn't seem to me that they ask any critical questions at all; they just assert a counter-dogma.

Official story: it snowed in Fort Worth on Tuesday. Truthers' "skeptical" questioning of the "official story": Obama wanted to keep me from my gun-rights meeting, so he seeded the clouds. And so it goes.

Ridiculous can and should be dismissed out of hand. The idea that we give folks like this and the Westboro folks free press and a chance to spread their idiocy makes us weaker and dumber as a nation. Just like with the gun issue, we are far too beholden to stuff written 250 years ago by guys who could never have imagined the world we live in. The reverence for the founding fathers makes nearly any step towards smart and practical impossible.

AKA, everything I like should be mandatory, everything I don't like should be forbidden. Spoken like a good totalitarian.

"Elections and free speech are so impractical. The world would be so much better if they just let smart people like me make decisions."

No, just the opposite. There is no such thing as a great nation without free speech, and the founders imagined very clearly what kind of world we would be living in. Because, fundamentally, its exactly the same kind of world they were living in.

Exactly. At the end of the day I rather our country be poorer, less organized and less safe, than less free.

I don't believe in any of the conspiracy ideas you cited (or in the BS JFK theories) but I'm well aware that our government (like any bureaucracy) is fairly incompetent and highly inefficient.

There are significant holes in the official versions of the JFK, RFK and MLK assassinations. A jury has actually found that James Earl Ray did not kill MLK. Hell, King's family say Ray didn't do it.

Not saying the conspiracy theorists are right about grand Gov't wide plots. But, there's a lot of BS in the official versions.

There's a big difference between skepticism, which is great, and moronic conspiracy theories, which can be dangerous. And, of course, everyone should be free to spout moronic conspiracy theories without fear of government action, but I think intelligent citizens have an obligation to call out moronic conspiracy theories as, well, moronic.

On conspiracy theories

Conspiracy theorists and cult members and the like aren't unintelligent people in general, most have above-average intelligence. Like most wrong thinking, they are examples of reason attaching to an deep emotional reaction to incomprehensible events. That's why you want to run away from people who get locked into whatever pet theory they hold -- it's the same damned thing that makes a lot of bbtf discussion intolerable. Smart, socially maladjusted people with too much time on their hands often become cranks.

"Elections and free speech are so impractical. The world would be so much better if they just let smart people like me make decisions."

Yours truly,

Barack Obama

But he's the weak link! Can't keep his story straight for ten seconds! Exposing his lies will bring the whole house of cards crashing down!

Now that I've looked into it, I can see why people are questioning this "crisis actor". First he says he gave the kids toys to play with, specifically mentioning Daffy Duck. One truth seeker who broke into his house for an investigation reports through his twitter account that there is no Daffy Duck in that house, only a Donald. Nobody could accidently mistake Donald for Daffy. Therefore, everything is a lie.

The idea that we give folks like this and the Westboro folks free press and a chance to spread their idiocy makes us weaker and dumber as a nation. Just like with the gun issue, we are far too beholden to stuff written 250 years ago by guys who could never have imagined the world we live in.

What makes us 'weaker' is a tremendous information overload swamping the human capacity to filter it. Throw out one devil and seven more rush in.

Not sure there is a direct correlation. I don't believe in any of the conspiracy ideas you cited (or in the BS JFK theories) but I'm well aware that our government (like any bureaucracy) is fairly incompetent and highly inefficient.

It's a one way street. I'm not saying people who think the government is incompetent believe these theories. I'm saying that the people who believe these theories think that in all other aspects that the government is incompetent. But in faking the deaths of 20 kids? Oh they're ruthlessly efficient in that. Brilliant.

There's a big difference between skepticism, which is great, and moronic conspiracy theories, which can be dangerous. And, of course, everyone should be free to spout moronic conspiracy theories without fear of government action, but I think intelligent citizens have an obligation to call out moronic conspiracy theories as, well, moronic.

"Red rover, red rover..."

Not saying the conspiracy theorists are right about grand Gov't wide plots. But, there's a lot of BS in the official versions.

99.9% of the Kennedy conspiracy theories are absolutely wrong. Because there are so damn many of them and only one could possibly be right. And perhaps 100% of them are wrong, and Roy Harvey Oswalt actually did it, despite not having been born in 1963. He's tricksy like that.

There's a big difference between skepticism, which is great, and moronic conspiracy theories, which can be dangerous. And, of course, everyone should be free to spout moronic conspiracy theories without fear of government action, but I think intelligent citizens have an obligation to call out moronic conspiracy theories as, well, moronic.

+1

On the assassination stuff, I put those in a separate category since 1) they have an obvious and predictable impact upon the nation and 2) people have always speculated about every assassination ever--Andrew Johnson was sure Jefferson Davis personally ordered Lincoln's killing and 3) public figures and their families might ethically deserve more sympathy and respect but aren't going to get it and knew that going into the job (or at least the figure himself.)

But this and the 9/11, that's just crapping on a bunch of regular people in the midst of unimaginable tragedy about an act whose consequences were sure to be serious but also essentially unpredictable. It's distasteful.