I think people should really respect the Jim's wishes and not discuss political matters outside of the OT-P thread.

There's also no real reason for this article to be posted, given those guidelines.

I thought it was ok as long as such articles are marked OTP? This probably should have been, but it was also quite obvious what this thread was going to be. If articles like this are approved, the discussion is going to go political.

If there was some article that was about Span's position in the lineup and people brought this into it, then that might be innapropriate

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you

And the best part is these idiots are armed to the teeth with automatic weapons so when the finally lose their very tenuous grip on reality, the can take a shopping center worth of people down with them.

You can't kill a shopping center worth of people with an automatic weapon.

Not until we have effective gun control at least, otherwise there will always be a few wackos carrying their own guns shooting back and slowing you down.

It would surprise me to find out that the secret of the conspiracy was kept for 30+ years, and there isn't any real tangible evidence that was discovered before then.
(And I don't mean confessions by people who can provide zero proof.)

Lance was able to do it for 20 years, though noone started asking questions till 1999, so really 13 years. The problem is the people who know rarely have proof, just experience that can be refuted. So there is at least one example of being able to keep things "quiet enough" for over 10 years... and if he had stayed retired, my guess is the people saying he cheated would have remain marginalized.

Did you read Black Hawk Down? There's a reason the Delta Force, and all the other SF gravitate to M-14s and variants, and those weapons have made a major comeback in the wars of the last decade. Both kill, but full calibre rifles disable faster. That's why they hunt deer with .30 cal.

I've read Black Hawk Down; there's nothing there that justifies such a massive and expensive change in US military equipment. It's anecdotal stories from justifiably overwhelmed men in incredibly stressful conditions.

Delta Force and other SF operators are highly trained elite forces and they largely are permitted to select their own equipment already. Most soldiers are NOT Delta Force; they don't have the aptitude or the training, and they don't undertake the same sort of missions. What makes sense for Delta doesn't necessarily make sense for non-elite infantry.

You're right about heavier rifles and ammo (thought this is severely mitigated by the fact that most US infantry is motorized or mechanized), but you are dead wrong about accuracy. An M-14/M-1A1 is more accurate to far longer distances than an M-16.

Yeah, .308/7.62 is more accurate at longer ranges, which is why it's used for sniper rifles. But it's harder to teach somebody to shoot accurately with .308 as opposed to .223, and .308 is less accurate when used in burst fire or full auto modes; there's a lot of recoil there, even with correspondingly heavier rifles. So while .308 is technically the more accurate cartridge on paper, in practice, most people shoot better with .223 unless we're talking strictly bolt-action or semi-automatic rifles, and even then the weight and felt recoil tend to eliminate any advantage inherent in the cartridge for the average shooter.

...and if Bonds used steroids or HGH, he's kept it under wraps for at least as long as Armstrong did. The idea that conspiracies don't exist is naive and juvenile. That doesn't mean all of the ones we hear about do exist, of course, but keeping secrets isn't nearly so hard when threats of death and harming one's family come into play. Please let's not pretend that these threats only exist in movies.

But it's harder to teach somebody to shoot accurately with .308 as opposed to .223, and .308 is less accurate when used in burst fire or full auto modes; there's a lot of recoil there, even with correspondingly heavier rifles. So while .308 is technically the more accurate cartridge on paper, in practice, most people shoot better with .223 unless we're talking strictly bolt-action or semi-automatic rifles, and even then the weight and felt recoil tend to eliminate any advantage inherent in the cartridge for the average shooter.

Disagree. They taught conscripts to shoot accurately with .30 cal rifles for something like 80 years. They shouldn't be fired on burst or full-auto. I'd issue semi-auto only. I've never heard of any accuracy problems with Garands in WW2 or Korea.

Delta Force and other SF operators are highly trained elite forces and they largely are permitted to select their own equipment already. Most soldiers are NOT Delta Force; they don't have the aptitude or the training, and they don't undertake the same sort of missions. What makes sense for Delta doesn't necessarily make sense for non-elite infantry.

Given the small size of our military (in terms of actual foot soldiers), and the fact that it's 100% long-service professionals, they all should be elite infantry.

BTW, nice to see you back, Arva.

Disagree. They taught conscripts to shoot accurately with .30 cal rifles for something like 80 years. They shouldn't be fired on burst or full-auto. I'd issue semi-auto only. I've never heard of any accuracy problems with Garands in WW2 or Korea.

It's not a case of not being able to do so, it's a case of it being easier and more efficient to do it the way we're doing it now. FWIW, I've done a good bit of shooting with Iraq/Afghanistan vets, and they generally like and prefer the .223 over the .308. The beauty of the .223 is that it's a decent all around cartridge. Perhaps it's not ideal for any given purpose, but it's adequate for virtually all purposes. In those situations where it's not adequte (dedicated sniper teams, elite SF operators, etc.), we give those soldiers the special gear they need. It's a cromulent system that gets the job done.

Given the small size of our military (in terms of actual foot soldiers), and the fact that it's 100% long-service professionals, they all should be elite infantry.

Given that we've sent National Guard units on multiple overseas combat deployments over the past decade, I don't think that's feasible.

No small arms generate enough energy to reliably "stop" another human being from a physics perspective

Wasn't there a Mythbusters episode debunking the whole "knock the bad guy over backwards with a bullet" thing?

how big and manly your cartridge is

Heh.

#110 Episodes 25 and 38 (a revisit). Even a .50 won't knock a target backwards. (with a shout out to Newton's 3rd law)

Even a .50 won't knock a target backwards.

I've seen some sniper spotter scope videos from Afghanistan that would refute that. These guys will literally sent flying.

A large portion of the American society is seeing their economic status deteriorate. At the same time, family ties are disintegrating among the non-affluent (>40% of children born to single mothers) so there is less of a support network to compensate. And the elites of both parties don't give a damn.

None of this is new, or even all that recent. So I just want to know why the understandable anxiety to irrational delusion transition has taken so long to catch up.

A conspiracy doesn't have to mean the whole gov't knew. Just more than one person working together.

But the conspiracy theories we're talking about require a lot more than that. The Lincoln assassination was an actual conspiracy to bring down the federal government of the United States and reverse the outcome of the Civil War, but the actual conspiracy is easily distinguished from the bizarre theories about a much broader conspiracy.

#112 They specifically tested the .50. I know people don't want to believe it, but it's not knocking them back/down. You might blown out a supporting limb and have somebody fall. Or they might react out of shock (but the smaller, higher velocity rounds are better at inducing shock)

Assuming a pure inelastic collision, using the SI definition of one grain = 0.065 grams, and with Snapper's cited velocity of approximately 800 meters/sec, the .30 caliber would stop an 80 kg man traveling toward the shooter at 0.12 meters/sec (0.43 km/hour) or slower. Similarly, if the 80 kg man is standing still, his backward velocity after impact is around 0.43 km/hr.

The .50 caliber has about 4 times the mass of the .30 caliber (721 gr per google search result), so the post-impact velocity of the 80 kg man should be about 1.7 km/hr assuming the round is traveling at a similar velocity.

1.7 km/hr isn't exactly flying into the air and doing a backflip. And it's anything but an inelastic collision.

i'm still not getting the sandy hook thing

are they saying that nobody was killed except adam lanza's mother? even her?
OR that there are no dead kids at all and they have simply disappeared with their entire families not having a problem with this?

i have heard the one about AIDS virus being invented to kill gays and Blacks. i want to know how come it kills Whites and Asians too?

i have heard the one about White people inventing sickle cell to kill Black people, too. which would mean fooling with DNA before anyone knew what DNA is. which i would like to know how they did it

i have heard all the ones about how bush created katrina/refused to allow any help/forced the LA gov n NOLA mayor to deal with it all by their lonesome so as they could kill more Black people

conspiracy theorists - well, the explanation really is a whole lot of blather that The Satan Is Out There
and
The End Of The World As I Like It Is Here

OR that there are no dead kids at all and they have simply disappeared with their entire families not having a problem with this?

The families are all actors, bbc! They don't have kids! It's all a skit. Why can't you see the truth?

The whole thing is even stupider than other conspiracy theories.

are they saying that nobody was killed except adam lanza's mother? even her?
OR that there are no dead kids at all and they have simply disappeared with their entire families not having a problem with this?

The whole thing was staged so that Obama could take away your guns. The "families" got no problem with it because they're all actors.

i have heard the one about AIDS virus being invented to kill gays and Blacks. i want to know how come it kills Whites and Asians too?

Government conspiracy Biotech was still in its infancy; they didn't know how to make a virus that would only kill gays and Blacks. Who knew that the gays and Blacks would mess up the plan by having sex with Whites and Asians?

None of this is new, or even all that recent. So I just want to know why the understandable anxiety to irrational delusion transition has taken so long to catch up.

I'm not breaking ground but the internet has obviously made it easier to spread these conspiracy theories/communicate with others to reinforce your belief. Obviously internet has been around a while now, and I feel like conspiracy theories are spreading more in the last couple of years than they had in the past so that can't explain everything.

Maybe it's the same as it always has been and I may be blinded by personal experience here.

i have heard the one about AIDS virus being invented to kill gays and Blacks. i want to know how come it kills Whites and Asians too?

i have heard the one about White people inventing sickle cell to kill Black people, too. which would mean fooling with DNA before anyone knew what DNA is. which i would like to know how they did it

i have heard all the ones about how bush created katrina/refused to allow any help/forced the LA gov n NOLA mayor to deal with it all by their lonesome so as they could kill more Black people

Sandy Hook was just Obama's way of striking back. It's so simple it must be true. Occam's Razor.

Are there any good MLB-centered conspiracy theories? The NBA has a few, but does anyone think MLB is fixed in any way?

I'm not breaking ground but the internet has obviously made it easier to spread these conspiracy theories/communicate with others to reinforce your belief. Obviously internet has been around a while now, and I feel like conspiracy theories are spreading more in the last couple of years than they had in the past so that can't explain everything.

The Web is 20 years old, but our use of it has changed radically in the last few years. Friendster only started in 2002. Facebook had a pretty limited user group through 2006, and both it and Twitter only blew up in 2008. Facebook and Twitter have become so ubiquitous that we tend to forget that it's a very new world we live in. People are connected and in constant communication in ways that they weren't only a few years ago.

(I should say that I don't know if conspiracy theories are spreading faster than they once did, but I agree that it certainly feels like they are.)

Are there any good MLB-centered conspiracy theories?

The 2004 playoffs were a hoax acted out on a sound stage at a secret Air Force Base in Nevada.

There are always those who think the ball has been juiced in some way. It's the kneejerk first out of the chute explanation for any increase in offense. Tony Kubek on the game of the week would start every season of his broadcasting with statements to that effect. He did that the whole time he was broadcasted the game of the week. It never seemed to have occurred to him that if the ball were juiced a little more each succeeding year, after a while it would really be obvious--like in hitters hitting for phenomenal averages and distances.

Are there any good MLB-centered conspiracy theories? The NBA has a few, but does anyone think MLB is fixed in any way?

My father-in-law is convinced that the umpires are directed by Selig and Fox to fix postseason games that could end a series early. I watched game 4 of the World Series with him, and he cited every call that went against the Giants as further evidence of the plan. He also thinks the union arranges for certain teams to win or lose in the postseason. This is mainly a reference to the Tigers. The union keeps them losing in the postseason so that Mike Illitch will keep pouring more and more money into salaries. At this point I should mention that my father-in-law is both crazy and extremely alcoholic, which might have something to do with this theories.

EDIT: Oh yeah, MLB is also bribing the town council of St. Petersburg to arrange for a new stadium in an area baseball wants. This might actually be true.

At this point I should mention that my father-in-law is both crazy and extremely alcoholic, which might have something to do with this theories.

On the plus side, he does sound like a fun guy to watch a game with.

Oh yeah, MLB is also bribing the town council of St. Petersburg to arrange for a new stadium in an area baseball wants. This might actually be true.

Bribing Florida politicians? Unpossible.

There are always those who think the ball has been juiced in some way. Tony Kubek on the game of the week would start every season of his broadcasting with statements to that effect. He did that the whole time he was broadcasted the game of the week. It never seemed to have occurred to him that if the ball were juiced a little more each succeeding year, after a while it would really be obvious--like in hitters hitting for phenomenal averages and distances.

I feel like I've given consideration to the ball being juiced. Guess I'm a truther in my own right.

On the plus side, he does sound like a fun guy to watch a game with.

Unfortunately, there is nothing fun about a 72-year-old alcoholic.

Yeah, but is it your immediate default explanation all the time, whether there has been any increase in offense or not?

I thought I remember hearing one about Ryne Sandberg's retirement and comeback, but I can't recall what it was.

Then there's how Ripken's streak was kept alive by purposely shutting down the Camden Yards generator to delay a game because Ripken was distraught over catching his wife with Kevin Costner.

Then there's how Ripken's streak was kept alive by purposely shutting down the Camden Yards generator to delay a game because Ripken was distraught over catching his wife with Kevin Costner.

He wasn't distraught. He hurt his hand beating the sh!t out of Costner. And they didn't just shut down a generator, they staged a train derailment!

I thought I remember hearing one about Ryne Sandberg's retirement and comeback, but I can't recall what it was.

Coming off the wrist injury, Sandberg was ineffective. Plus the strike was looming. Plus his marriage was breaking up due to his wife sleeping with everybody in the clubhouse except Yosh Kawano.

The Ripken one I heard, thouhg the story I heard was that they got into a fight and Ripken was too beat up to play.

There's a conspricy afoot here. Its held by the BTF illumanti to get rid of the quoteblock button. DON'T FALL FOR IT.

does anyone think MLB is fixed in any way?

John Kruk is half-way there.

Then there's how Ripken's streak was kept alive by purposely shutting down the Camden Yards generator to delay a game because Ripken was distraught over catching his wife with Kevin Costner.

I heard a version where the delay was because he was getting treatment after breaking his hand punching Costner and he DHed for a few games while it healed, despite the fact that he never DHed that year.

despite the fact that he never DHed that year.

Well, that just proves it. Why else would they cover it up?

But the conspiracy theories we're talking about require a lot more than that. The Lincoln assassination was an actual conspiracy to bring down the federal government of the United States and reverse the outcome of the Civil War, but the actual conspiracy is easily distinguished from the bizarre theories about a much broader conspiracy.

The craziest ones, sure.

But, the idea that Oswald was the patsy for a small group of rogue CIA operatives only requires a handful of people to know, in the sense they can prove it. The idea that the Chicago mob was involved in the RFK assanination, could involve 2 or 3 mob bosses and a couple of hit men.

There are conspiracy theories that don't require more than a dozen people to have real evidence of what happened. If any of these conspiracy theories are real, they have been widely discussed. They leaked in the sense that people know, or think they know what happened. They just haven't been proven.

Not only was Shoeless Joe Jackson innocent, he didn't play in the 1919 World Series.

I've never heard this before, but Google says some people think Curt Schilling put red paint on his sock during the "Bloody Sock Game" to have an excuse in case he pitched poorly.

There are theories about the ball being juiced for the 1987 season when there were weird HR totals.

Also, I seem to remember seeing a show where MLB was using its satellites to spy on people, but rather than know the terrifying truth, people just wanted to see Mark McGwire swat dingers.*

*-It was The Simpsons.

...and if Bonds used steroids or HGH, he's kept it under wraps for at least as long as Armstrong did.

Huh?

BALCO was raided in 2003, Bonds was shortly exposed as a client. BALCO was an incorporated entity, not a secret. Bonds had a reporter spend time with him and document his workout regimen.

At the grand jury and the crim trials of Conte, etc. it was established that BALCO had produced the cream and the clear. At the grand jury it was established that Bonds used cream and clear substances provided to him by Anderson. Bonds kept nothing "under wraps" and there's not a lot of doubt that Bonds used substances containing steroids (there is a slim possibility what Anderson gave him was not the real stuff). This has been in the public realm for, what, 7 years now?

The question is whether Bonds knowingly used steroids and therefore lied to the grand jury. On that we have Conte's testimony that he never told Bonds and we have other athletes that said they weren't told (and some that were if I recall) and we had Anderson sitting in jail for quite a long time for refusing to testify. That's not a complicated conspiracy unless you think Bonds was manipulating the testimony of Conte and several players and that not only Anderson but Marion Jones and others went to jail to protect Bonds.

Armstrong kept almost nothing "under wraps". Rumors abounded from the start. Andreu came forward in 2006. The Armstrong conspiracy held for, what, 7 years?

And in both cases the key element was nothing to do with complicated conspiracy or secret plots but rather friendship -- Anderson-Bonds and Andreu-Armstrong -- and not wanting to kill the golden goose. Anderson chose not to testify at all, Andreu only after being subpoenaed.

Mickey Mantle was a health food fadist who never drank anything stronger than a can or two now and then of Crab Juice. Okay, Mountain Dew, if there wasn't any Crab Juice. Although there was some monsterism associated with the MD.

The woman who wrote the Dear Abby columns was not actually named Abby. Wait, that's true!?

Besides the famous NY Giants story about someone being in the scoreboard with binoculars to steal signs, wasnt there a theory that the Metrodome used to turn on the air conditioning when the visiting team was at bat?

There is also the story of the Ripken HR in the All-Star game being a fat pitch on purpose.

I've never heard this before, but Google says some people think Curt Schilling put red paint on his sock during the "Bloody Sock Game" to have an excuse in case he pitched poorly.

That's the one I've heard a lot about.

Of course, if BBTF pools their money, maybe we can buy it and have it tested!

Bleacher Report once ran a story touching on a theory that Jim Joyce blew the call at the end of Armando Galarraga's semi-perfect game because of a league mandate that there be no more perfect games. Supposedly the spate of perfect games was widely attributed to the umpires and leading to calls for instant replay, which Selig didn't want. So Joyce blew the call on purpose, to avoid instant replay. I never heard of the theory outside of Bleacher Report, but it is wonderfully counterintuitive and I hope that someone out there believes it.

The all-time greatest stupid conspiracy is the one in Holy Blood, Holy Grail (and the basis for the Da Vinci Code) that alleges that the Merovingians were the descendants of Jesus and Mary Magdalene, and that there has been a secret conspiracy to place the surviving Merovingian heirs on all of the thrones of Europe. You may recall that the last Merovingian monarch was deposed in 751 by Charlemagne's father, Pepin the Short. So not only does this conspiracy necessarily involve a lot of people, it was somehow kept secret for the 1,231 years between 751 and the publication of the book in 1982.

EDIT: Honorable mention goes to the various theories that some or all of the the Middle Ages didn't exist and were faked by a Pope or someone similar, which only makes the Merovingian conspiracy that much more impressive. (Because the Merovingians, being Medieval, didn't exist. However a good chunk of those years between 751 and 1982 also didn't exist, which mitigates this difficulty somewhat.)

A large portion of the American society is seeing their economic status deteriorate. At the same time, family ties are disintegrating among the non-affluent (>40% of children born to single mothers) so there is less of a support network to compensate. And the elites of both parties don't give a damn.

None of this is new, or even all that recent. So I just want to know why the understandable anxiety to irrational delusion transition has taken so long to catch up.

The thing is, the sort of semi-mass paranoia and "truthseeking" we've seen lately is a recurring part of American history. As creepy as much of the racial and religious rhetoric of the loony right wing may be today, consider this: In the late 1930's, the openly anti-Semitic Catholic priest Charles Coughlin commanded a far bigger radio audience than Rush Limbaugh does today. And in the early 1920's, Henry Ford was both selling and giving out copies of The International Jew right there in his automobile showrooms. Among the conspiracy theories that set of 4 books promoted was that the Jews had taken over and were destroying baseball.

And IMO the main reason that we think that the paranoia is at some sort of all-time peak today is that it's so easy for anyone to get a platform and have it picked up and spread by like-minded wingnuts all across the country, where it gets magnified not only by sympathizers, but by people who re-post their rants for condemnation and / or mockery and entertainment. Add to that the infinitely greater political sophistication of right wing groups like the NRA and the crackpot religious types, and you wind up with an entire political party being dominated by some very strange people.

People think there was a conspiracy to not offer a contract to Bonds after his last season.

Bleacher Report once ran a story touching on a theory that Jim Joyce blew the call at the end of Armando Galarraga's semi-perfect game because of a league mandate that there be no more perfect games.

I'm not sure this is serious, but it is Bleacher Report so you never know.

Then there's this: an ARod conspiracy theory.