did not embody the dirt-on-the-uniform, all-out, get-concussed-or-go-home sort of player [manager Kirk] Gibson wants

Seems like an unfortunate phrase in the wake of Ryan Freel's suicide and the controversies the NFL is going through.

Unfortunate?

I don't think so. My guess is it was very intentional and a not so subtle mock.

This has always been Towers style, even before Gibson. See Byrnes, Eric. Gibson is just making it worse.

This has always been Towers style, even before Gibson. See Byrnes, Eric.

See Byrnes, Josh.

Upton was the 2nd most valuable right fielder in baseball the last 4 years by fWAR (Zobrist ain't a RF), 5th the last 3 years, 3rd last two years.

Can you imagine how good he'd be if he cared? I mean cared enough to lift weights at the same time as Gibby, instead of spending hours in the batting cage working on his swing?


Can you imagine if he was a grinder how many games he would have played the last 4 years? I guess a grinder would have played more than 145 games a year even with the same injuries.

It occurs to me that the Braves just traded for a RH Jason Heyward to play LF. This makes me happy.

This is a very good article, I think, but it doesn't leave any space for the not-insubstantial history of newish managers trading away All-Star talent to help create their own organizational culture, then achieving success afterward. Like Whitey Herzog dumping Ted Simmons (and later Keith Hernandez), or Scioscia/Stoneman getting rid of Jim Edmonds, or Francona/Epstein trading Nomar.

Re: the great observation about smooth non-white players getting tagged as lazy or indifferent, one of Scioscia's neat early tricks was basically pulling the rug out from under that once-common description of Garret Anderson.

Last 3 years according to FanGraphs



Yea, it might be fun watching them play together every day. And the last 3 years include Upton's two injury season, coincidentally his 2 worst seasons in his last 4, so there is a reasonable chance Justin might be the better player going forward. Two years ago a healthy Justin did this...

matt

but whitey picked up other players who could play. jury is still out if arizona did that

it does appear that the trade was more about getting rid of someone than gaining someone

worked for billy beane in the case of jeremy giambi

I will say this: Martin Prado is a darn good player. Not flashy, and he doesn't possess the upside of Upton, but a .300 hitter with doubles power and the ability to play capable defense at three positions is exceptionally valuable.

Yea, it might be fun watching them play together every day. And the last 3 years include Upton's two injury season, coincidentally his 2 worst seasons in his last 4, so there is a reasonable chance Justin might be the better player going forward.

Players who get injured are not gritty players though. They can't play for Kirk Gibson. Oh wait . . .

If they extend Prado for 2-3 more years slightly below market (say, AAV $11m PA), I think they made a fair trade. I know the extension is technically a separate issue, but I do not think they made the deal in a vacuum. Still think the Bauer trade was bad.

The comments Towers made yesterday were total nonsense. I think he was trying to get his point across without taking TOO many potshots at Upton. As a result, he ended up saying things like "It wasn't that he didn't try hard, he just did a bad job making others see how hard he was playing." If the results are the same, why do you care? Are you really conceding that appearances outweigh performance?

Upton was the 2nd most valuable right fielder in baseball the last 4 years by fWAR (Zobrist ain't a RF), 5th the last 3 years, 3rd last two years.

Yes, but what is his value by DIRT?

A non-white guy in baseball getting a rap that he's not trying hard enough and not a grinder (whatever the hell that means)? Wow, that never happens.

Maybe if he danced like Ray Lewis before every game he'd still be in Arizona.

Well, apparently Towers and Gibson did not see the correlation between having a 6 WAR player and winning in 2011 and having a 2 WAR playing and not winning in 2012.

It's just so ironic that the primary reason Upton had a bad year is because he played through a thumb injury when he should have gone on the DL.

One thing worth mentioning from a financial perspective is that Upton was the current face of this franchise: IE most common jersey at games and so on. So who is that going to be now? Miguel Montero maybe?

It just doesn't seem to me that any of this was gone about the right way by the DBacks. Even if you privately feel that Upton's "promise" is far in excess of what he's ever going to deliver, it would seem to me to be better to keep that to yourself than air that stuff publicly as happened last year. Can't help a player's trade value if the other teams know you're backed into a corner and have to move him.

Gibson still has the football player mentality. He would love Ray Lewis. This will be his downfall as a manager, favoring hustle guys over people who can actually play. There are any number of guys he would have happily run out of town if he had them, white, black, hispanic or otherwise. He probably wouldn't have been too happy with Babe Ruth's schtick. If Bauer doesn't have Clemens or Schilling or Morris intensity then he's a slacker. Gibson will be gone in two years and will be lucky to get another job. I was at Michigan State when Gibson was there, was in Detroit most of his career, moved to So Cal when he was there. I have followed him closely. Towers will last a couple more years and this will be his last gig. What they have done to this franchise is a joke. Prado is a nice player and Delgado has some upside but they got zero star potential in a trade for a 25 year old 5 tool RF who finished 4th in the MVP race a year ago. That is awful. And they did it to themselves, telegraphing to the whole industry that they were unhappy with their best players. They made their bed..............

It occurs to me that the Braves just traded for a RH Jason Heyward to play LF. This makes me happy.

But should that make him 1 of my 3 fantasy keepers? Is he poised for a big year in a place that wants him, reunited with his brother, and (perhaps most importantly) over the thumb injury?

My other two keepers will be Trout and Harper.

He's going to be in the middle of a pretty good hitting side, if McCann and Uggla do anything.

According to Fredi, the proposed lineup is

SS Andrelton Simmons
RF Jason Heyward
LF Justin Upton
C Brian McCann
CF B.J. Upton
1B Freddie Freeman or 2B Dan Uggla
2B Dan Uggla or 1B Freddie Freeman
3B Chris Johnson or Juan Francisco

My other two keepers will be Trout and Harper.

Ballin'!