BBTF.org
Login | Register

/m/expos

  • My Memberships -
  • Login to edit.

    • Tuesday, February 26, 2013

    Eric Knott: Surviving Professional Baseball in the Steroid Era

    (www.baseballprospectus.com)
    • Facebook
    • Google+
    • Twitter
    • E-mail
    posted on February 26, 2013 at 11:07 PM by Der_K to diamondbacks, expos, minor leagues, peds, writing worth reading  |  114 comment(s)

    At Hardball Talk, Calcaterra said of this B-Pro guest piece by former journeyman pitcher Eric Knott:

    We should spill way less ink about who we think “the real Home Run King” is — as if that matters — and think way harder about those frequent minor league suspensions and what they mean to the people who are faced with the choice to take dangerous drugs or wind up out of baseball.

    Against that backdrop is this excellent column from Eric Knott. Knott pitched 11 years in the minors and ...

    Read More...

    Reader Comments and Retorts

    Go to end of page

    Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

    Page 2 of 2 pages  < 1 2
    51. GEB4000 posted on February 02, 2012 at 07:29 PM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    Sean Connery as Morpheus and Gandalf.
    52. ray james posted on February 02, 2012 at 07:33 PM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    Meh, you're not missing anything.


    And, you know this how?
    53. ray james posted on February 02, 2012 at 07:36 PM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    Stonewall Jackson isn't accidently shot and killed...


    Eh, he would have gotten killed in the Wilderness anyway.
    54. Voros McCracken of Pinkus posted on February 02, 2012 at 07:42 PM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    What if Pegleg Sullivan had been more careful...
    55. McCoy posted on February 03, 2012 at 12:50 AM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    Stonewall Jackson isn't accidently shot and killed...

    and more people die to achieve the same results.
    56. cardsfanboy  posted on February 03, 2012 at 01:09 AM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    Josh Beckett would have had something to say about that. 2003 Marlins were not the pushovers that the 2004 Cardinals were.


    I'm seriously hoping that is a sarcastic line. I can't imagine anyone thinking the 105 win Cardinals are a pushover relative to 91-71 Marlins.

    So it is marketing and not the game itself and its history which helps the game retain its status?


    When Selig took over as commissioner baseball was seriously being challenged by the NBA as the second most popular sport in america, since then mlb has caught up the the NFL and is co-champion for most popular sport in the U.S. Without Selig's vision, traditionalist might be happy, but the game would be teetering on financial collapse.
    57. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) posted on February 03, 2012 at 10:36 AM #  hit 0 | hit 0


    I'm seriously hoping that is a sarcastic line. I can't imagine anyone thinking the 105 win Cardinals are a pushover relative to 91-71 Marlins.


    2003 Marlins WS record = 4-2
    2004 Cardinals WS record = 0-4

    Clearly the Marlins were the pushovers...
    58. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) posted on February 03, 2012 at 10:47 AM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    The NFL owners never agree to revenue sharing. The Steelers have to operate in the 70s like the Rays, producing top shelf talent, but trading all of it to the Giants and Bears. Dan Rooney is the most hated man in Pittsburgh. The Giants and Bears win titles in 70s with the Dolphins and Cowboys and there is no Steelers dynasty. The NFL actually achieves true parity!
    59. RMc and His Roster of Rubbish posted on February 03, 2012 at 06:57 PM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    Spiderman remains on the bases, entire world goes to hell immediately after.
    60. LionoftheSenate (Pirates v A's World Series) posted on February 03, 2012 at 08:24 PM #  hit 0 | hit 0


    When Selig took over as commissioner baseball was seriously being challenged by the NBA as the second most popular sport in america, since then mlb has caught up the the NFL and is co-champion for most popular sport in the U.S. Without Selig's vision, traditionalist might be happy, but the game would be teetering on financial collapse.


    Mostly true.
    61. Benji Gil Gamesh Rises posted on February 03, 2012 at 08:36 PM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    -Jeter never makes it over to make the "flip", Giambi out at home anyway due to it being totally unnecessary.
    Excellent.
    62. TomH posted on February 03, 2012 at 09:38 PM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    Speaking of 70s Steelers, the NFL begins investigating and penalizing performance enhancing drugs. Steelers never win a 70s Super Bowl. Terry Bradshaw's reputation is about even with Archie Manning's, which is about where it should be.

    (oh, all happening after the refs call an illegal catch on the immaculate reception)
    63. Ebessan posted on February 03, 2012 at 10:11 PM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    -Nyjer Morgan is currently active in the NHL.

    And Jarome Iginla is the second-best catcher in baseball.
    64. Forsch 10 From Navarone (Dayn)  posted on February 04, 2012 at 12:07 AM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    Nebraska kicks the extra point.
    65. McCoy posted on February 04, 2012 at 02:58 AM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    I'd love to see the actual evidence that the NBA was seriously challenging MLB.
    66. LionoftheSenate (Pirates v A's World Series) posted on February 04, 2012 at 03:33 AM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    I'd love to see the actual evidence that the NBA was seriously challenging MLB.


    Not sure how old you are, but MSM and the "water cooler" sports fan pretty much declared NBA superior to MLB in the mid-late 80s and most of the 90s. Esp when the 1994 MLB strike hit. Major NBA events such as Dr J, Magic v Bird positioned the NBA to surge, a few great rivalries in the 80s early 90s didn't hurt either, like Pistons v Bulls and Jordan winning 6 championships.

    It probably wasn't until 1998 when Big Mac (god that's 14 years ago) and Sosa shredded the HR record books when baseball finally reclaimed a clear lead over the NBA. It didn't hurt that was the same year Jordan ended his career on the Bulls. But 1998 truly did boost baseball, roids or not.

    Most of BTF posters over 30 probably remember it this way as well.
    67. LionoftheSenate (Pirates v A's World Series) posted on February 04, 2012 at 03:45 AM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    An alternate universe scenario to 1998.

    Selig works a PED ban and testing into new collective bargaining agreement in 1995, Big Mac and Sosa never conspire to shred the HR record books and MLB never regains supremacy over the NBA, 5 years later "slow paced" and "old fashioned" MLB experiments with titanium metal bats in order to juice offense and baseball attendance to compete with "exciting" and "fantastic" NBA action, two pitchers are killed on the same day, MLB is sued for $2 billion in damages and folds.

    68. McCoy posted on February 04, 2012 at 04:00 AM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    That isn't evidence. Butts in seats, eyeballs on sets.
    69. Select Storage Device -- Baseball Historian posted on February 04, 2012 at 04:11 AM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    -Charlie Ward is drafted in the third round by the Oakland Raiders and signs. He has an indistinguishable career. A lil' Select Storage creates him in NBA Live '95 as a 1/2 for the Spurs, and wonders what might have been.

    -Bo Jackson signs with the Bucs and is decapitated in his 6th game after a shovel pass from Steve Young. Brian Bosworth goes on to a 15yr HOF career as a linebacker for the 'Hawks. Never makes Stone Cold.

    -Marina Sirtis is cast as Lt. Macha Hernandez, security chief in ST:TNG. Denise Crosby still quits as Counselor in season 1. Lt. Hernandez is considered the second-most vile character in Star Trek history after Ezri Dax.

    -John Romero makes you his ##### with Daikatana.

    -Billy Beane never writes that book.

    70. Select Storage Device -- Baseball Historian posted on February 04, 2012 at 04:42 AM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    Most of BTF posters over 30 probably remember it this way as well.

    Speak for yourself. I'm on the lowest end of that spectrum, but on the anecdotal side, I don't remember the NBA ever being more popular than Jordan's run, which is only a six year stretch during the 90's. According to TV ratings:

    The highest ever rating for an NBA finals was Jordan's last in 1998 -- 29m viewers.

    Game 7 of the '86 series hit 38m. The '91 series hit 32m. And it's not a game 7 thing -- the '94 NBA Finals between the MAJOREST MARKET Knicks and Rockets, Ewing vs. Hakeem, was around ~17m. It took the Babe Ruth of basketball and a strike to get anywhere close to MLB, but the NBA was never a threat to MLB when Jordan wasn't playing in the playoffs. Crazy talk.

    Edit: Pretty sure I found bad data for ratings, but I doubt the correct numbers would alter the point much.
    71. winnipegwhip posted on February 04, 2012 at 07:48 PM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    During the 1980's the Tigers ruled Detroit. WDIV had the Tigers and they had stronger ratings going head to head with Pistons playoff games. Of course the Tigers were strong then. Teams and sports popularity will flow with teams successes. There was a time in the 70's and 80's if someone called Detroit Hockeytown they would have been laughed at.

    While everyone wants to proclaim 1998 and McGwire and Sosa as the reason baseball revived, failure to recogize a resurgent Yankee franchise as being important is incorrect. The Yankees elicit a reaction from all sports fans (love them or hate them).

    If McGwire and Sosa are the reason, why are the fans still following the game after their departure, and subsequent disgrace?
    72. McCoy posted on February 04, 2012 at 07:53 PM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    Because of Cal Ripken!
    73. MelOtt4 posted on February 04, 2012 at 08:40 PM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    Joe Mauer plays professional football.



    I can't even imagine Mauer playing professional football even though he had the talent to do so.


    Nebraska kicks the extra point.


    Nebraska is no longer the greatest team never to win a National Championship. The one tie hurts their all-time status. I think Miami was destined for greatness even if they had tied and not won the National Championship.

    What if Lonnie Smith remembers base-running 101?
    74. Bitter Calculus Instructor posted on February 04, 2012 at 08:51 PM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    What if Lonnie Smith remembers base-running 101?


    Then Jack Morris' HoF support hovers in the mid-20%s and he drops off the ballot in 2014?
    75. WillYoung posted on February 04, 2012 at 09:00 PM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    - Carl Crawford doesn't pull everything on the ground to the first baseman.


    Actually, he was going to be the "next great option QB" at Nebraska after Tommie Frazier, so maybe the Bill Callahan Era never happens.
    76. WillYoung posted on February 04, 2012 at 09:05 PM #  hit 0 | hit 0


    Or in game 5 Tony Clark's ball short hops the wall in right (instead of a ground rule double) and Jeter running from first base scores and the Yanks take the lead. (I can't remember if it is the ninth or extra innings)


    And Corey Koskie's double doesn't barely skip over the wall in the LF corner in Game 2 of 2004 as the Twins head back home with a 2-0 series lead. Ok, we all know Gardy would have found a way to blow it...
    77. Random Transaction Generator posted on February 04, 2012 at 09:19 PM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    Devon White can't hang onto the ball as he crashes into the wall (and doesn't get the rare unassisted double-play by an outfielder). The Braves take a 2-0 lead, and win Game 3 4-3. They go on to win the 1992 World Series.
    78. TerpNats posted on February 04, 2012 at 11:15 PM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    Rich Ashburn doesn't throw out Cal Abrams at home plate, Brooklyn wins the 1950 NL pennant to complete the Phillies' epic collapse (in this universe, 1950 is their 1964), and Bobby Shantz, Eddie Joost and the Athletics gradually win back the heart of Philadelphia. A frustrated Ruly Carpenter sells the Phillies after the 1953 season to Baltimore interests, thus reviving the NL Orioles, with the Browns moving across Missouri to Kansas City the following year and becoming the Blues.
    79. Wins Above Paul Westerberg posted on February 04, 2012 at 11:25 PM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    Gary Anderson makes that ####### field goal.
    80. toratoratora posted on February 05, 2012 at 04:26 AM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    Day 1-Ewell takes the hill.
    81. cardsfanboy  posted on February 05, 2012 at 04:36 AM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    since no Cardinal fan has called it yet.

    Denkinger makes the correct call, it doesn't change a thing as the team still collapses. (same with Buckner fielding the ball in these universes) Same results for both the 85 and 86 World Series. Just a lot less whining from both respective fan bases.
    82. Something Other posted on February 05, 2012 at 04:51 AM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    I don't go to the game that night.
    83. Biff, highly-regarded young guy posted on February 05, 2012 at 01:06 PM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    Been hangin' out with Biff or something?

    Buh?
    84. Gold Star - just Gold Star posted on February 05, 2012 at 01:22 PM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    Jody Reed accepts the Dodgers' contract offer.

    Page 2 of 2 pages  < 1 2

    You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

     

    Expos Think Factory

    Login to Join (0 members)

    {/exp:tag:subscribed}

    Page rendered in 2.9764 seconds, 160 querie(s) executed