BBTF.org/m/fantasy_baseball : Terence Moore: Designated hitter skews home-run totals

Monday, April 29, 2013

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posted on April 29, 2013 at 11:29 AM by Jim Furtado to fantasy baseball, reviews, simulation | 3 comment(s)

I love Dynasty League Baseball and have played it for years. I love it so much I provided a free ad for the game this season to thank Mike Cieslinski for the many years of enjoyment I’ve gotten from the game. At some point I will do an in-depth review of the game for the site to so you can get a better idea about the game’s strengths and weaknesses.

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1. JJ1986 posted on February 02, 2012 at 11:06 AM # hit 0 | hit 0

The Rod has averaged 25 home runs over his last 3 years and 28 over his last 4. 44 seems like a reach.

2. Enrico Pallazzo posted on February 02, 2012 at 11:08 AM # hit 0 | hit 0

baseball officials could do something they don’t like to do.

Start thinking about asterisks.

Um. No. They won't. Like, at all. I am very confident it will never even cross their minds.

3. Athletic Supporter gangnam style posted on February 02, 2012 at 11:10 AM # hit 0 | hit 0

more like designated steroid user LOL amirite?

4. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit posted on February 02, 2012 at 11:19 AM # hit 0 | hit 0

I think this is a great point from Moore. It would be awful if someone as pure as Barry Bonds lost out on his home run record to DH-Rod.

To be honest I'm stunned that Moore even acknowledges that it's Bonds' record. I'm not giving him the click thru to read the whole piece but I would have expected him to opine that it's really Aaron's record.

5. BDC

posted on February 02, 2012 at 11:31 AM # hit 0 | hit 0

it's really Aaron's record

What, Henry "Brewers' DH" Aaron?

6. The elusive Robert Denby posted on February 02, 2012 at 11:31 AM # hit 0 | hit 0

To be honest I'm stunned that Moore even acknowledges that it's Bonds' record.

Barry has fewer tainted homers than Aaron.

7. YR Misses Reggie Bars posted on February 02, 2012 at 11:36 AM # hit 0 | hit 0

The DH remains an abomination. Immobile fatsos who can still hit can join a softball league.

8. BDC

posted on February 02, 2012 at 11:44 AM # hit 0 | hit 0

Immobile fatsos who can still hit can join a softball league

HI THIS IS JI

JIM THOME IM ENJOYING THE CHIPPEWA FALLS LEINENKUGEL LEAGUE

I HAVE 84 HOME RUNS SO FAR

9. Booey posted on February 02, 2012 at 11:46 AM # hit 0 | hit 0

This makes you respect Babe Ruth and Willie Mays even more

Yep, records were a lot more pure back in the good old days of segregation. That pesky color barrier thingy didn't affect the record books at all...

To be honest I'm stunned that Moore even acknowledges that it's Bonds' record. I'm not giving him the click thru to read the whole piece but I would have expected him to opine that it's really Aaron's record.

He does. Here's his exact quote:

...Hank Aaron, who remains the standard bearer for home runs if you take the so-called steroid era into consideration.

Asterisks are moronic. Period. All numbers are a product of their times, and records aren't supposed to be "fair." They're just a straight up, no bias recording of what happened. Why they happened is a separate debate for those interesting in debating. But the powers that be should never try and force people to view certain numbers differently by adding an asterisk. Luckily, this guy is an idiot and MLB will never even consider doing that.

10. Booey posted on February 02, 2012 at 11:49 AM # hit 0 | hit 0

Edit: deleted accidental post

11. Bob Tufts posted on February 02, 2012 at 12:12 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

I am upset that the invention of the computer has enhanced the productive ability of sportswriters, an advantage that Grantland Rice et al did not have in their day when they were under deadline.

That enhancement has not helped the quality of Moore's output, however.

(Shakes fist at popup ads crosssing his virtual lawn)

12. Mike Webber posted on February 02, 2012 at 12:31 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

That enhancement has not helped the quality of Moore's output, however.

I'm betting spell check has helped the quality of his output a bunch, it has mine.

13. cardsfanboy

posted on February 02, 2012 at 01:03 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

I'm fairly certain that most any record could be asterisked. I mean you asterisk Aarons record because he played in a 162 game season(over a 20 year career that is an extra season, for Hank it's a possible extra 120 games, along with his DH and Speed usage) with Ruth you have the color barrier, with Bonds you have the pesky roid thing and smaller stadiums, with Arod you have the roid thing, smaller stadiums and the dh etc.

I mean should we really consider Cy Young the all times wins leader? he's a product of his era, how about Sam Crawford and his 304 triples? I mean shouldn't that be asterisked? Heck Mariano Rivera should be asterisked because closers didn't pitch the same way in the past.

Once you let the abomination of even pretending there is an argument for an asterisk, it can become silly rather quick.

14. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) posted on February 02, 2012 at 01:14 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

What is the "right" number of home runs?

15. Natty Fan posted on February 02, 2012 at 01:17 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

I don't know why, but when I first read #7, I mentally pronounced "immobile fatsos" as if it were a Latin phrase.

16. bookbook posted on February 02, 2012 at 01:19 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Liveball era? More like super ball era, I say! Bring back thereal balls.

17. Gonfalon Bubble posted on February 02, 2012 at 01:21 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

You'd think that the writers might be slowed for a nanosecond by Roger Maris' journey -- a journey taken without the actual participation of Maris -- from selfish, surly fluke to sainted, stoic hero.

18. SandyRiver posted on February 02, 2012 at 01:23 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

If, as Moore opines, hr by players who don't have to field or throw should not count, do we then deduct all pinch homers? (Just some more silliness added to the points made well by cfb.)

19. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy posted on February 02, 2012 at 01:25 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

DH HR:

Aaron 22
ARod 16

20. KT's Pot Arb posted on February 02, 2012 at 01:35 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Has any record ever been asterisked? Maris's record wasn't.

http://www.salon.com/2001/10/03/asterisk/

21. Booey posted on February 02, 2012 at 01:37 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

What is the "right" number of home runs?

Whatever number the authors favorite player/boyhood hero ended up with.

22. cardsfanboy

posted on February 02, 2012 at 01:45 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Has any record ever been asterisked? Maris's record wasn't.

nope, at least not in the real sport, maybe lesser past times, and childrens games like basketball, football or jai alai, they might have done something like that.

I'm still thinking of all the absurdity of how they could asterisk records. I mean they could asterisk recent players because they face so many pitchers that they are bound to face some below quality pitchers or they could asterisk the past because there were so few pitchers that the players got a better feel for each pitcher. I don't think there is one major career record that someone couldn't come up with a silly reason to asterisk something, and still it be a more sound idea than what Moore is proposing.

23. flournoy posted on February 02, 2012 at 02:06 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Whatever number the authors favorite player/boyhood hero ended up with.

Huh. Okay, then. Two.

24. Greg Pope thinks the Cubs are reeking havoc posted on February 02, 2012 at 02:13 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

I'm still thinking of all the absurdity of how they could asterisk records.

I do think that when people talk about asterisks it's just shorthand. I mean, for the home run record, wasn't it listed for a while as separate lines (or whatever) in the record book?

Home runs, season, 154 games: 60
Home runs, season, 162 games: 61

Effectively, that's an asterisk. And if you wanted to, you could make as many as you wanted:

Home runs, season, pre-1947: 60
Home runs, season, post-1947: 72

I am NOT saying that I support this, but I think this is what people mean when they say they want an asterisk.

25. cardsfanboy

posted on February 02, 2012 at 02:18 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

I mean, for the home run record, wasn't it listed for a while as separate lines (or whatever) in the record book?

not just the homerun record, but all the major records, at least in the 1969 McMillan, and I believe the 77(?) one also.

26. Repoz

posted on February 02, 2012 at 02:27 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

but all the major records, at least in the 1969 McMillan, and I believe the 77(?) one also.

Neft's 1975 followup doesn't have separate lines.

27. cardsfanboy

posted on February 02, 2012 at 02:32 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Neft's 1975 followup doesn't have separate lines.

I haven't looked at it in a while, but just thought that I was using the newer book when I looked and that it had separate lines. Guess not.

28. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit posted on February 02, 2012 at 02:34 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Home runs, season, post-1947: 72

Which homer are you taking away from Barry?

29. YR Misses Reggie Bars posted on February 02, 2012 at 02:42 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

nope, at least not in the real sport, maybe lesser past times, and childrens games like basketball, football or jai alai, they might have done something like that.

You take that back, jai alai is awesome.

30. cardsfanboy

posted on February 02, 2012 at 02:50 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

You take that back, jai alai is awesome.

I'll take it back as long as I never ever have to hear someone call bowling, Nascar or Golf a sport. :)

31. SoSHially Unacceptable posted on February 02, 2012 at 02:55 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

I do think that when people talk about asterisks it's just shorthand. I mean, for the home run record, wasn't it listed for a while as separate lines (or whatever) in the record book?

Home runs, season, 154 games: 60
Home runs, season, 162 games: 61

By the way, I never saw a problem with this approach to the keeping of the record book.

In this case, Maris (or anyone else) would have been considered both the single-season and 162-game record holder, while Ruth remained the 154-game record-holder. If desired, if a record took fewer than 154 games to break (as was the case with McGwire in 98) you could eliminate the notation for the 154-game record holder. Or you don't have to, I wouldn't be married to it either way.

32. Nasty Nate posted on February 02, 2012 at 02:55 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

I see plenty of asterisks when I see lists of baseball records.

They usually indicate active players...

33. GEB4000 posted on February 02, 2012 at 03:20 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

There would be a lot less members of the 3,000 hit club if we took away their DH hits.

34. Booey posted on February 02, 2012 at 03:29 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

There would be a lot less members of the 3,000 hit club if we took away their DH hits.

Haven't you been paying attention to any of the steroid articles over the last 5 or so years? Only HR numbers matter. The DH rule is no exception. It has increased career HR totals and nothing else.

35. Walt Davis posted on February 02, 2012 at 04:00 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

I think track, swimming, weightlifting, etc. may have asterisked for a couple years before just yanking the Ben Johnsons out.

(c'mon now, straight lines don't come any more obvious than that)

And I'm pretty sure Mac or Bonds holds the 154-game record now. :-)

I'm also pretty sure that if AROD can still crank out 33-44 HR a year, they'd find some place to play him if they didn't have the DH. Maybe he'd miss a few more games for extra rest (or suffer some more serious injury in the field) but it's not like AROD would be adding 33-44 HR a year by the existence of the DH -- he'd probably be adding 4-5. Might still make the difference.

36. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) posted on February 02, 2012 at 04:47 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Records with asterisks are one of the few things dumber than the DH itself.

37. Brian

posted on February 02, 2012 at 05:42 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

At some point you've homered enough.

38. Drew (Primakov, Gungho Iguanas) posted on February 02, 2012 at 06:15 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

And I'm pretty sure Mac or Bonds holds the 154-game record now. :-)

As Maris said when Frick came up with his ridiculous asterisk, which 154 games? The first? The last? The middle?

39. Crispix Attacks 2: Swag Airlines posted on February 02, 2012 at 06:39 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Didn't Reggie Jackson break the 154-game record some time in the 70s, with 30-some in the second half of one season and 30-some in the first half of the next season?

Was it someone else?

40. Booey posted on February 02, 2012 at 07:14 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Didn't Reggie Jackson break the 154-game record some time in the 70s, with 30-some in the second half of one season and 30-some in the first half of the next season?

That's why it's called a SINGLE SEASON record, so numbers split across two seasons don't count. Still cool to notice this kind of stuff sometimes, though.

Didn't Boggs and Gwynn both hit over .400 during a 162 game span split across two seasons?

41. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) posted on February 02, 2012 at 07:56 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

You take that back, jai alai is awesome.

Sterling Cooper Draper Price is earning their commission.

42. Something Other posted on February 02, 2012 at 08:48 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Has any record ever been asterisked? Maris's record wasn't.

I wouldn't asterisk Maris's total any more than I'd asterisk Babe Ruth's. They belong side by side, showing the records for the 154 game season, and the 162 game season. I'd do the same for the various length seasons in the NFL. It's silly to claim that someone in the 16 game season "broke" the single season rushing record without acknowledging that it's one third longer than the 12 game season.

43. bobm posted on February 02, 2012 at 08:48 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

From BB-REF PI event finder:

All of MLB: 11919 Home Runs in 1973-2011, As DH
35 leading off game, 163 game-ending, 3707 go ahead, 1139 tying

901 Batters
David Ortiz 333
Frank Thomas 269
Edgar Martinez 243
Harold Baines 236
Don Baylor 219
Jose Canseco 208
Chili Davis 200
Jim Thome 198
Travis Hafner 177
Hal McRae 145
Andre Thornton 125
Brian Downing 125
Cliff Johnson 115
Rafael Palmeiro 107
Jason Giambi 105
Juan Gonzalez 104
Paul Molitor 102
Reggie Jackson 101
Dave Kingman 101
Cecil Fielder 98
Jim Rice 98
Willie Horton 96
Ken Phelps 96
Eddie Murray 92
Mike Sweeney 86
Oscar Gamble 86
Vladimir Guerrero 86
Greg Luzinski 83
Rico Carty 83
Brad Fullmer 79
Ron Kittle 77
Hideki Matsui 76
Richie Zisk 72
Manny Ramirez 71
Ruben Sierra 70
Aubrey Huff 69
Larry Parrish 68
Jack Cust 67
Mickey Tettleton 66
David Justice 65

44. Something Other posted on February 02, 2012 at 08:51 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

As Maris said when Frick came up with his ridiculous asterisk, which 154 games? The first? The last? The middle?

Silly question. The first 154. Which games did he think the other guy played in?

45. bobm posted on February 02, 2012 at 08:52 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

1960 Pitchers
Frank Tanana 66
Bert Blyleven 61
Jack Morris 59
Chuck Finley 52
Roger Clemens 52
Tim Wakefield 50
Mike Moore 47
Brad Radke 47
Kenny Rogers 44
Mark Buehrle 43
Dave Stewart 43
Jim Slaton 42
David Wells 42
Bartolo Colon 42
Mike Mussina 40
Dennis Martinez 40
Pat Hentgen 39
Charles Nagy 39
Jimmy Key 39
Dennis Eckersley 39
Jamie Moyer 38
Frank Viola 38
Scott McGregor 38
Charlie Hough 37
Mike Flanagan 36
Mark Langston 36
Fergie Jenkins 35
Jarrod Washburn 35
Floyd Bannister34
Jim Clancy 34
Doyle Alexander 34
Dave Stieb 33
Freddy Garcia 33
Dennis Leonard 33
Kirk McCaskill 32
Mike Smithson 32
Bret Saberhagen 32
Bobby Witt 32
Sidney Ponson 32
Scott Erickson 31

46. bobm posted on February 02, 2012 at 08:55 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

DH HOME RUNS BY YEAR

47. Booey posted on February 03, 2012 at 12:46 AM # hit 0 | hit 0

I wouldn't asterisk Maris's total any more than I'd asterisk Babe Ruth's. They belong side by side,

Nah. Putting a 154 game "record" alongside the real one is no different than listing pre and post-integration records side by side or pre and post-DH records side by side or pre and post-roid records side by side, etc, etc. The list could go on and on. It's an unnecessary waste of space. Anyone who's interested in finding out the context behind each record is welcome to do it on their own and decide for themselves how much worth each one has.

It's silly to claim that someone in the 16 game season "broke" the single season rushing record without acknowledging that it's one third longer than the 12 game season.

As stated somewhere above, record books should just list numbers exactly as they happened. It's not their job to worry about what's "fair" or which record is more impressive.

48. Everybody Loves Tyrus Raymond posted on February 03, 2012 at 01:31 AM # hit 0 | hit 0

You know, the older I get the more I think "This is a game played for entertainment. Who really gives a sh!t about this stuff?" I mean, really, "great evil"? Cancer is a great evil. Baseball is a diversion. It's a waste of time to argue about 90% of this crap. The worst thing about baseball fans is their ability to get their panties in a wad over trivial junk.

49. cardsfanboy

posted on February 03, 2012 at 01:38 AM # hit 0 | hit 0

You know, the older I get the more I think "This is a game played for entertainment. Who really gives a sh!t about this stuff?" I mean, really, "great evil"? Cancer is a great evil. Baseball is a diversion. It's a waste of time to argue about 90% of this crap. The worst thing about baseball fans is their ability to get their panties in a wad over trivial junk.

I think you got on the wrong site then.

It's a fun diversion, that is why people argue it, discuss it, etc. I mean how much fun is it to talk about cancer. (for the record I oppose cancer) And on top of it, because it's a diversion, the hatred can only get so intense before you realize---hey it's only a game---.

50. Something Other posted on February 03, 2012 at 07:04 AM # hit 0 | hit 0

It's silly to claim that someone in the 16 game season "broke" the single season rushing record without acknowledging that it's one third longer than the 12 game season.

As stated somewhere above, record books should just list numbers exactly as they happened. It's not their job to worry about what's "fair" or which record is more impressive.

Exactly!

The numbers as they happened:

Home Runs Record - single season

154 game season: Babe Ruth 60
162 game season: Roger Maris 61

Actually, since you mentioned it, why not list records by pre- and post-segregation? It's an interesting teaching tool and suggests the game changed dramatically as a result.

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DYNASTY League Baseball: Where Heroes Come Back To Life | Seamheads.com

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