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    • Thursday, April 04, 2013

    April 4, 2013 Omnichatter

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    posted on April 04, 2013 at 12:07 AM by Gamingboy to baseball, game recaps, omnichatter  |  271 comment(s)

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    1. Chip posted on July 15, 2012 at 09:02 AM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    I suppose he gets credit for reversing himself, but that out call at home plate - AFTER the ball had sailed far over the catcher's outstretched glove and nearly hit the screen on the fly - has to be one of the worst cases of sheer umpire incompetence in history.
    2. jobu posted on July 15, 2012 at 09:14 AM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    I suppose he gets credit for reversing himself, but that out call at home plate - AFTER the ball had sailed far over the catcher's outstretched glove and nearly hit the screen on the fly - has to be one of the worst cases of sheer umpire incompetence in history.

    This is not an exaggeration. In my view, clearly an example of an umpire wanting to be part of the unfolding drama, straight out of the Enrico Pallazzo School.

    Remarkable win for the Padres.
    3. Lassus posted on July 15, 2012 at 09:23 AM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    That is some kind of awesome baseball play. My GF and I are debating whether Cabrera was planning that, or if he just saw Jansen futzing around and took off. She thought Everth was deking almost the whole time, but I think he just saw the chance and bolted.
    4. cardsfanboy  posted on July 15, 2012 at 09:31 AM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    He could have payed attention to the runner at third.


    Has this become a word and I've never known it? smh.
    5. Der_K posted on July 15, 2012 at 09:44 AM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    That doesn't compare to: Once AJ realized he did have the ball he went to retrieve the ball, as the umpire realized AJ did not have the ball. Also Cabrerra.
    I'm presuming that the author was simply in a heightened emotional state at the time.
    6. Justin T is expanding the aperture of awareness posted on July 15, 2012 at 09:47 AM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    I suppose he gets credit for reversing himself, but that out call at home plate - AFTER the ball had sailed far over the catcher's outstretched glove and nearly hit the screen on the fly - has to be one of the worst cases of sheer umpire incompetence in history.

    I should like to know what would have happened if he didn't reverse his call. No credit awarded for that.

    7. I Am Not a Number posted on July 15, 2012 at 10:22 AM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    He could have payed attention to the runner at third.

    Has this become a word and I've never known it?

    It did, right around the time the plural of Padre became Padre's.
    8. FancyPantsHandle glistening with foreign substance posted on July 15, 2012 at 10:27 AM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    Has this become a word and I've never known it? smh.

    Nope that's always been a cromulent word. Since Shakespeare or so.
    9. Matt Clement of Alexandria posted on July 15, 2012 at 10:31 AM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    I mean, it's the same word as "paid", just spelled differently. It's a spelling of a word that is obviously recognizable, and which is widely attested in the history of the English language, but which in the last couple centuries has fallen out of use in written English. If you want to mark your writing as formal and professional and educated, it's not a spelling you want to use.
    10. Matt Clement of Alexandria posted on July 15, 2012 at 10:34 AM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    That is some kind of awesome baseball play. My GF and I are debating whether Cabrera was planning that, or if he just saw Jansen futzing around and took off. She thought Everth was deking almost the whole time, but I think he just saw the chance and bolted.
    I'd like to re-watch the 9th inning on MLBtv. Does Jansen regularly futz around on the mound before the pitch, and in particular does he turn his back to the plate a lot? It looked to me like Cabrera knew what he was doing, and was waiting for Jansen to step off and walk to the back of the mound.
    11. Lassus posted on July 15, 2012 at 10:54 AM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    Good points. You may be correct there.
    12. I Am Not a Number posted on July 15, 2012 at 10:55 AM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    The play in question.
    13. Shooty is in the Trust Tree  posted on July 15, 2012 at 11:15 AM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    That reminds me of the A's Sulk-Off win against the Angels a few years ago when Francisco Rodriguez' temper tantrum allowed Jason Kendall to steal home.

    And the umpire is hilarious there. He's out! He's safe! And HE'S safe and aw #### it, can I just go home now?
    14. Bob T posted on July 15, 2012 at 11:24 AM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    Kendall wasn't credited with a steal of home on that play back in 2005. Rodriguez was charged with an error for dropping the return throw back from the catcher.
    15. streak of perros posted on July 15, 2012 at 11:31 AM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    Ellis took the blame, saying he wasn't paying attention himself. Karma for the triple play back in April.
    16. Bob T posted on July 15, 2012 at 11:31 AM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    Isn't a steal of home down by a run with two outs pretty high in the "high risk/high reward" department?
    17. Shooty is in the Trust Tree  posted on July 15, 2012 at 11:32 AM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    Kendall wasn't credited with a steal of home on that play back in 2005. Rodriguez was charged with an error for dropping the return throw back from the catcher.

    I gave him a stolen base!
    18. Matt Clement of Alexandria posted on July 15, 2012 at 11:41 AM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    Isn't a steal of home down by a run with two outs pretty high in the "high risk/high reward" department?
    Well, obviously all steals of home are high risk / high reward.

    The traditional baseball wisdom that you can take some extra chances and risk making the third out at home applies here. Jansen is a crazy good pitcher, Cabrera's very fast, and the Padres suck at hitting. It's just about the perfect situation to take a chance at stealing home, if you see an opening.
    19. stanmvp48 posted on July 15, 2012 at 11:42 AM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    "AJ Ellis fired the ball back to Kenley who held the ball on the mound for long moments as he gathered himself for what he hoped would be the final pitch. It would never come". Yes it did. After the events in question, Amarista grounded out.

    "Once AJ realized he did have the ball he went to retrieve the ball". I assume he meant "did not have the ball". In any case it isn't true. Ellis stood around with his head up his ass for several seconds before going after the ball.

    Incidentally, I would not have given Cabrera a steal of home since he would have clearly been out if the throw had been on target. I would have called it a two base error. I realize plays like this are generally not scored this way.

    20. stanmvp48 posted on July 15, 2012 at 11:43 AM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    "AJ Ellis fired the ball back to Kenley who held the ball on the mound for long moments as he gathered himself for what he hoped would be the final pitch. It would never come". Yes it did. After the events in question, Amarista grounded out.

    "Once AJ realized he did have the ball he went to retrieve the ball". I assume he meant "did not have the ball". In any case it isn't true. Ellis stood around with his head up his ass for several seconds before going after the ball.

    Incidentally, I would not have given Cabrera a steal of home since he would have clearly been out if the throw had been on target. I would have called it a two base error. I realize plays like this are generally not scored this way.

    21. Tom Nawrocki posted on July 15, 2012 at 11:43 AM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    Isn't a steal of home down by a run with two outs pretty high in the "high risk/high reward" department?


    All steals of home are with two outs (unless the runner is a complete idiot).
    22. stanmvp48 posted on July 15, 2012 at 11:44 AM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    Didn't a Colorado player do it a year or two ago. Nelson, I think, against Cincy. It was a much lower reward situation as I recall
    23. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) posted on July 15, 2012 at 11:48 AM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    I also realize plays are not scored this way, but Jansen committed two errors on that play: throwing over the catcher's head and then failing to cover home when he had plenty of time to.

    I can see an argument for awarding Cabrera the steal, though. One could argue that Jansen threw the ball away because he was in an extreme hurry to unload it. Similar things happen with infielders rushing to throw the hitter out at first and throwing it away; they are almost always scored single plus however many bases on the throwing error.
    24. stanmvp48 posted on July 15, 2012 at 11:52 AM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    I am also wondering how much the umpire's original erroneous call influenced Ellis not to go after the ball and Jansen not to cover home. Not suggesting it is an excuse, but just wondering. As somebody pointed out it was a totally impossible mistake.
    25. Jundt posted on July 15, 2012 at 11:53 AM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    If the home plate umpire could change his call in a case like this, why couldn't Jim Joyce change his call right away in the infamous almost perfect game? Both seemed like total brain cramps to me. What do the rules say??
    26. salajander posted on July 15, 2012 at 12:00 PM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    Video of the play.

    Best part is when the catcher runs to the backstop to get the ball, who's right there in the front row? Pat Sajak. Look around 2:30.
    27. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) posted on July 15, 2012 at 12:00 PM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    What?

    Joyce blew a close call, and continued to believe he'd gotten it right until he went inside and saw the replay.

    Gibson blew an obvious call, inasmuch as the catcher didn't even have the ball, the ball was 20 yards behind him. The umpire has no choice but to reverse course and signal safe. These situations aren't analogous at all. Joyce didn't change the call to safe because the rules forbade him to, but because until the game was long since over he continued to believe the runner was out.
    28. Poster Nutbag posted on July 15, 2012 at 12:02 PM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    I'd like to re-watch the 9th inning on MLBtv. Does Jansen regularly futz around on the mound before the pitch, and in particular does he turn his back to the plate a lot? It looked to me like Cabrera knew what he was doing, and was waiting for Jansen to step off and walk to the back of the mound.


    That is some kind of awesome baseball play. My GF and I are debating whether Cabrera was planning that, or if he just saw Jansen futzing around and took off. She thought Everth was deking almost the whole time, but I think he just saw the chance and bolted.


    He's interviewed after the game, it's on MLB.com, and as you decipher his broken english (which isn't half-bad at all) it sounds as if he did indeed plan it and was waiting for the right opportunity.
    29. Ben V-L posted on July 15, 2012 at 12:03 PM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    You know, I'm not a rule book expert...but when an ump makes a call that ends the game (the original out call) and players stop playing, I don't see how they can simply reverse the call and make the play live again. The call should be reversed, but I feel a bit for Jansen for not covering home. Why would you rush to cover home in a game that's over? It seems to me the call should be reversed but Venable should have to stay at third.
    30. Tom Nawrocki posted on July 15, 2012 at 12:06 PM #  hit 0 | hit 0


    Didn't a Colorado player do it a year or two ago. Nelson, I think, against Cincy. It was a much lower reward situation as I recall


    It was the bottom of the eighth in the tie game, so it was a pretty high-reward situation. Contradicting myself in record time, that steal of home actually did take place with just one out, but Nelson was sort of being an idiot: The squeeze was on, and he took off from third too soon.
    31. salajander posted on July 15, 2012 at 12:09 PM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    You know, I'm not a rule book expert...but when an ump makes a call that ends the game (the original out call) and players stop playing, I don't see how they can simply reverse the call and make the play live again. The call should be reversed, but I feel a bit for Jansen for not covering home. Why would you rush to cover home in a game that's over? It seems to me the call should be reversed but Venable should have to stay at third.


    In some cases, maybe a low throw that dribbled away in the plate collision, I could see that, but in this case Jensen could clearly see the ball he threw went to the backstop and the runner was obviously safe, no matter what the umpire says.
    32. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) posted on July 15, 2012 at 12:12 PM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    Yeah, Jansen didn't just stand around after he threw the ball away because he thought the runner was out. He did it because he was pissed off at himself for not paying attention and then throwing the ball away, not realizing until it was too late that the other runner was also making his bid for home.
    33. Tuque  posted on July 15, 2012 at 12:24 PM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    I think this exact same sequence of events happened to me once when I was pitching in Little League.
    34. Bob T posted on July 15, 2012 at 12:36 PM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    Charlie Hough did a similar thing back in 1986 when he was pitching for the Rangers. He lost a no-hitter in the ninth on Wally Joyner single which tied the game at 1-1. The previous batter had reached on a 3-base error by George Wright. An IBB of Reggie Jackson sent Joyner to 2nd.

    Eventually, Hough got to a two-out situation with George Hendrick up. Hough struck him out, but Orlando Mercado let the ball get past him (his second PB of the inning.) Hough stood at the mound while Joyner jogged on home, seemingly perplexed at how his no-hitter and shutout disappeared within minutes.
    35. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) posted on July 15, 2012 at 12:50 PM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    Pat Sajak. Look around 2:30.
    Sajak is a big baseball fan, right?
    36. Sunday silence posted on July 15, 2012 at 12:50 PM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    mind reading aside, do the rules say anything about what is supposed to happen when he changes the call like that?
    37. Bob T posted on July 15, 2012 at 12:57 PM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    I don't believe the rule book says anything about that, but it's not like an inadvertant whistle in football. If the ump changes his mind, and the play keeps going, they usually just let the chips fall where they may.
    38. streak of perros posted on July 15, 2012 at 01:01 PM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    Once you're caught with your head up your ass, it's almost impossible to recover gracefully.
    39. Petunia inquires about ponies posted on July 15, 2012 at 01:05 PM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    I know this is a useless post, but I'm brain cramping myself and I can't for the life of me remember the topic of the recent thread where the question in [36] is explored in excruciating detail.

    On topic, as the Giants/Astros game dragged on and on, it was nice to see something like this unfold for the Dodgers. Kruk and Kuip were fairly crowing about it on air, though to my recollection they never showed the actual video.

    On another note, the scattershot copy-edit police always tickle me. Given an excerpt as, let's say 'adventurous' as that, and we settle for picking on an obsolete but technically correct spelling, a misplaced apostrophe and a missing word. The whole thing is a disaster!
    40. SoSH U at work posted on July 15, 2012 at 01:22 PM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    I know this is a useless post, but I'm brain cramping myself and I can't for the life of me remember the topic of the recent thread where the question in [36] is explored in excruciating detail.


    It's similar to the Dodgers' triple play earlier in the year. Ump makes what appears to be a foul ball sign, then quickly changes it.

    It's not really that infrequent. Tag play at the plate, umps calls out right away then sees the ball has squirted away and reverses himself. Yes, it's understandable guys will freeze in certain situations,* but I would hate for the game to have to be frozen simply because of a half-second of an inadvertant signal.

    * though it shouldn't have been the case with either Jansen or Ellis - they had to know the out call would get reversed.

    41. Shock posted on July 15, 2012 at 01:54 PM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    So, I assume Venable took second on "defensive indifference" right?

    I've always hated that.

    Edit: Although it's strange they'd let the go-ahead run get into scoring position. But I wonder how hard they tried to keep him on first.
    42. Meatwads stronger now, ready for the house posted on July 15, 2012 at 01:56 PM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    Plays like this are what makes baseball fun to watch.
    43. SoSH U at work posted on July 15, 2012 at 02:01 PM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    So, I assume Venable took second on "defensive indifference" right?

    I've always hated that.


    According to the box, he stole second. I would hope no team is indifferent to the potential go-ahead run freely advancing 90 feet in the ninth innning. That would be an awful decision.

    Oh, and do you hate the ruling that doesn't allow for a stolen base, or the state of indifference that allows that easy base to be taken?



    44. Sunday silence posted on July 15, 2012 at 02:07 PM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    This is off topic, but could find nowhere else to post this rules question:

    What the hell is rule on throwing to third and then to first? I thought this was now a balk based on a new rule change? I saw I guess Josh Johnson of the Marlins do this at least twice in the 6th inning of Fridays game vs Nationals. Is this not being called? Is the rule change something else? I am totally confused.

    EDIT: Never mind it is a proposed rule change for next year. Gee whiz.
    45. SoSH U at work posted on July 15, 2012 at 02:10 PM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    What the hell is rule on throwing to third and then to first? I thought this was now a balk based on a new rule change? I saw I guess Josh Johnson of the Marlins do this at least twice in the 6th inning of Fridays game vs Nationals. Is this not being called? Is the rule change something else? I am totally confused


    Well, you're confused, but it's understandable. MLB, for no particular reason, has stated it is considering making this move illegal next year. For now, it remains a legal play.
    46. Bob T posted on July 15, 2012 at 02:11 PM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    The rule change about the fake to third, throw to first is being discussed, but it's not on the books now.

    The Dodgers were holding Venable on first and Jansen tossed over a few times, but, like most closers, he's not adept at holding runners. Or he just doesn't care much. You would think as a former catcher, he would care more, but it could also be a case that Jansen doesn't have that much pitching experience to be able to concentrate as closely on runners and the batter at the same time.
    47. Der_K posted on July 15, 2012 at 02:22 PM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    Sajak was part of the Golden League's ownership group (Indy ball).
    48. Petunia inquires about ponies posted on July 15, 2012 at 02:26 PM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    Thanks SOSH. It was the Dodgers triple play thread.

    Jansen doesn't have that much pitching experience to be able to concentrate as closely on runners and the batter at the same time.

    At this point, this seems abundantly clear.
    49. TerpNats posted on July 15, 2012 at 02:46 PM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    Sajak is frequently seen at Nats Park and Camden Yards (he also resides in the Annapolis area).
    50. Astros Offensive Juggernaut posted on July 15, 2012 at 02:56 PM #  hit 0 | hit 0

    Wow, wild night on the west coast.

    In the 9th inning of the Giants/Astros game, 2 out, runner on 2nd, Astros down by 1 run. Chris Snyder struck out, but the ball got away from the catcher, who threw wide to first. Justin Maxwell came all the way around from 2nd to score as it appeared that Brandon Belt wasn't paying much attention after receiving the errant throw.

    Of course, the Astros haven't scored at all this year in extra innings, so the Giants ultimately won.

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