At last, he can devote all of his energy toward his true calling - feuding with Orlando Cabrera.

At age 30, he was at 1923 hits and coming off a season he hit .332/.390/.470. I would not have guessed he would only get about 400 more hits in his career.

The 36-year-old won two World Series titles — and two World Series MVP awards.

So he was awarded the 2010 World Series MVP twice?

At age 30, he was at 1923 hits and coming off a season he hit .332/.390/.470. I would not have guessed he would only get about 400 more hits in his career.

I would've thought Edgar was a HOF candidate after the 2007: slick-fielding SS with almost 2,000 hits by age 30. But his value was essentially zero after that...and even before, Renteria just wasn't that valuable: I was shocked to find that his career WAR is under 30.

I believe he and Goose Goslin are the only two players to end a World Series with a walk off hit and make the final out of a separate World series.

Saw him play a game in Class A. Charles Johnson was the catcher.

I now feel very old.

How many 'really old' players are there who have NOT officially retired? Oswalt? Jamie Moyer!

Mariano.

So looking it up on BBRef I think Mariano is going to be the only MLB player this year who is older than me.

With apologies to Phil Coorey -- #### me sideways.

How many 'really old' players are there who have NOT officially retired? Oswalt? Jamie Moyer!

Rickey Henderson...

I would've thought Edgar was a HOF candidate after the 2007: slick-fielding SS with almost 2,000 hits by age 30. But his value was essentially zero after that...and even before, Renteria just wasn't that valuable: I was shocked to find that his career WAR is under 30.

I had him on the track to 3000 hits easily and thought he might challenge 3500 hits even. With a nice career fade he would have had a chance, but he just stopped producing anything worthwhile. I think if he gotten on a non-contending team, he might have gotten the plate appearances to make it interesting.

Did Bonds ever officially retire?

Saw him play a game in Class A. Charles Johnson was the catcher.

I now feel very old.

I recently said something like this to my father (regarding Chipper Jones), and he said, "Just wait until someone you saw in A-ball dies of old age."

I always thought the whole Red Sox thing was a CF. He should have been given more than one year by the fans and himself, and the Sox certainly shouldn't have paid so much for someone else to take him off their hands.

And wasn't the progression: Renteria-Marte-Crisp-Ramon Ramirez-Dan Turpen (?)

I now feel very old.

As far as I'm concerned, I'm immortal, until I'm not....or my hair turns grey. Science has shown that bitter, pessimistic people live longer. I'll be dancing on all your graves.

Science has shown that bitter, pessimistic people live longer. I'll be dancing on all your graves.

Studies have shown that previous studies had incorrect findings. Health impact studies of coffee or alcohol consumption have gone bad, good, bad, good in moderation, awful, okay, etc, etc, etc.

I'll be dancing on all your graves.

No grave for me I suspect. As I said earlier today in another thread I don't care what happens to me after I die and my boys have promised many different terrible fates for my remains (none of which include traditional burial). I am just glad they plan on waiting until I am dead :)

they plan on waiting until I am dead :)

As far as you know!

to spend all my time with my family.

This must be a mistranslation...

With apologies to Phil Coorey -- #### me sideways.

At your age, that is probably the safest position.

Studies have shown that previous studies had incorrect findings. Health impact studies of coffee or alcohol consumption have gone bad, good, bad, good in moderation, awful, okay, etc, etc, etc.

FOUL!

You can't yada yada the current state -- I'm about to order lunch here!

Rickey Henderson...

Henderson will still think he can play in the majors until the day he dies.

Henderson will still think he can play in the majors until the day he dies.

He's what, 55 now?

It's probably not true anymore - but I wonder when it actually stopped being true? Yes - he was pretty dreadful at 43 (208/321/306) - but that was only in about 80 PAs, and he had been at least somewhat useful the two previous seasons and only a few years removed from a pretty darn good season.

I bet he could have gone a couple more years of over league average OBP, with a modicum of steals... he couldn't start anymore, was limited to LF/DH/PR, but I bet he would have been a perfectly cromulent 5th OF for a couple more years... though, I suppose it means your 4th OF absolutely, positively has to be capable of handling CF.

Science has shown that bitter, pessimistic people live longer.

Immortality!

I was shocked to find that his career WAR is under 30.

Yeah but BBRef has his oWAR at 31 and dWAR at 8, which would be 39 together. Yet they show his total WAR as about 29. How are they calculating this?

Yeah but BBRef has his oWAR at 31 and dWAR at 8, which would be 39 together. Yet they show his total WAR as about 29. How are they calculating this?

There's a note that says:

oWAR + dWAR DOES NOT EQUAL WAR, pos would be counted 2x

but it's hidden under oRAR.

Science has shown that bitter, pessimistic people live longer.

Fat, bitter, and pessimistic is no way to go through life, son.

Yeah but BBRef has his oWAR at 31 and dWAR at 8, which would be 39 together. Yet they show his total WAR as about 29. How are they calculating this?
THis should explain it

and they should probably change the name of dWAR to dWAA since it doesn't include replacement value (which I think is just fine).

and they should probably change the name of dWAR to dWAA since it doesn't include replacement value (which I think is just fine).

I hate to join a bandwagon, but I really do hate the changes that they did. It used to be so much easier to tell if a player's performance was relative to average at his position. Now it's about value instead of positional adjustments and it's just annoying. Yes I know I'm being petty, but I always liked looking at a guy like Jeff Kent or Mike Piazza and their defensive numbers and arguing relative to average at their positions...nowadays the numbers that I used to use are just not there.

Note:I have argued against replacement value etc... for different reasons. I'm fine with it in this particular case, not because it's good or bad, but basically dWar is already made relatively useless in a debate once they added the positional adjustments.

but I always liked looking at a guy like Jeff Kent or Mike Piazza and their defensive numbers and arguing relative to average at their positions

Assuming you're talking roughly equal playing time (in a season or across a number of seasons) at a position then WAA (or RAA) gives you this (i.e. the positional adjustment will be the same). If you're not comparing roughly equal playing time, you've got extra work either way.


basically dWar is already made relatively useless in a debate once they added the positional adjustments.

This makes no sense to me. Adding the positional adjustment makes it more useful. Rfield is only useful if you're comparing players at the same position (in about the same playing time). dWAR gives you the exact same comparison when looking at guys playing the same position and gives you the means to compare guys across positions (should you want to). Nothing has been lost and something has been gained.