know a lot of people question defensive metrics out in the field (is something being biased by groundball or flyball pitchers, righties/lefties, etc.) but I'm genuinely curious what basis anyone would have to conclude that Fisk was a better defensive catcher than Carter.

I believe Bill James a long time ago went on record as saying that if handling pitchers in a game could be quantified Fisk would definitely move up. Young catchers, even Bench and Berra, come up with a big learning curve ahead of them, but Fisk even when he was young had a rep for being savvy and knowing how to call a game and how to handle pitchers. I think that would be the case for Fisk having extra on defense compared to some other great catchers.

When it comes to athlete's murdering their girlfriends, OJ is the obvious leader in the clubhouse.
I did think Jim Brown would join him; Jim has thrown more girlfriends off decks and through windows than just about any angry man I can think of.

What do you think Sutton and Neikro might have to say to Reggie at the next HoF dinner/induction ceremony they attend?

When it comes to athlete's murdering their girlfriends, OJ is the obvious leader in the clubhouse.

Dungy's take--if I remember right--was that it was easy for him to imagine OJ killing someone but impossible for him to imagine him killing them with his bare hands because he was so compulsive about cleanliness.

I believe Bill James a long time ago went on record as saying that if handling pitchers in a game could be quantified Fisk would definitely move up. Young catchers, even Bench and Berra, come up with a big learning curve ahead of them, but Fisk even when he was young had a rep for being savvy and knowing how to call a game and how to handle pitchers. I think that would be the case for Fisk having extra on defense compared to some other great catchers.

That's why I was wondering if Catcher's ERA or something like that was some tangible measure for determining Fisk was better defensively.

I know there are a lot of flaws in defensive metrics, as mentioned before. TZ, dWAR, Linear Weights, etc. We usually see the problems because under one method Player A looks great and Player B looks lousy defensively but under another measurement system the rankings are reversed.

But here's the problem: whether looking at TZ for catchers, dWAR, Linear Weights, Michael Humphreys' system in his book Wizardry or whatever - many different systems, all the same conclusion - that Carter wasn't just better than Fisk defensively, but MUCH better than Fisk. Given how the Gold Gloves were voted back when they were active, apparently the BBWAA reached a similar conclusion.

So unless someone can come up with a measurable system that makes sense that can show Fisk as better defensively or even equal to Carter defensively, I still don't see how Fisk was considered HOF material before Carter.

What do you think Sutton and Neikro might have to say to Reggie at the next HoF dinner/induction ceremony they attend?

Sutton will give Reggie a belt and Niekro will make Reggie knuckle under.

Reggie now "embarrassed" that comments went public:

http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/yankeesblog/yankees_great_reggie_embarrassed_0MPyT4bSAqcIAG4EGRAsfO

"Jackson was contrite about his comments made at lunch with friends and SI's Phil Taylor.

"I am very disappointed that's out there and I am embarrassed,'' Jackson said of his words about Carter. "I have a number for his wife (Sandy) and I want to talk to her and the family. That needs to be noted. I am calling to apologize for inappropriate comments while I was talking to friends.''

Jackson refused to say Taylor mis-quoted him. And Jackson said he never told Taylor what was on or off the record."

If Reggie tries to set things right, I got a feeling he's just going to make it a lot worse. He needs to stop talking right now and slink off, preferably like the old men towel boys at the Springfield Nuclear Plant executive washroom.

impossible for him to imagine him killing them with his bare hands because he was so compulsive about cleanliness.

So he used a knife and wore gloves.

If the straw doesn't stir, you must concur.

Morty,
Does the Springfield Nuclear Plant executive washroom still employ towel boys?
Can't say as I've ever seen a jobs wanted ad for that position.

Well, I agree with him about Rice and Puckett.

Fair enough, but two out of seven isn't a very good percentage. Agreed that Puckett doesn't belong, and Rice only makes sense if you think Orlando Cepeda and Tony Perez are worthy HoF choices.

What about Billy Martin, Reggie?

If HoF voters are going to take the "character clause" so much to heart, wouldn't Martin's HoF case be negatively impacted? And George Steinbrenner's, while we're at it?

Not that I think Martin's got an especially good HoF case as it is, but just asking.