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Wednesday, December 12, 2012

2013 Results: Bonds, Clemens, Piazza and Biggio are elected to the Hall of Merit!

(bbtf)

posted on December 12, 2012 at 10:14 PM by Joe Dimino to history | 61 comment(s)

Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Mike Piazza and Craig Biggio have been elected to the Hall of Merit!

The timing for our first year electing 4 candidates could not have worked out better, since class of 2013 is the strongest in terms of electees that we’ve ever had. The top of the 1934 ballot included Ty Cobb, Tris Speaker, Eddie Collins, Pop Lloyd, Smokey Joe Williams and Cristobal Torriente, but only 2 were elected.

Bonds and Clemens were each unanimous at 1 and 2. I believe that’s the first ...

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51. The Good Face posted on March 12, 2013 at 11:52 AM # hit 0 | hit 0

he's 3rd all-time in fewest hits per 9 innings

No surprise at all. And now that I've checked, he was indeed much more effective pitching in his home whites. A 2.73 ERA in 979 innings vs. a 4.05 in 887. His K rate was much better at home as well.

I've heard Mike Schmidt say the most difficult pitch for him to hit was Nolan Ryan's fastball.
#2 on Schmidt's list was Nolan Ryan's curve. Therein lies the problem - on the days Nolan struggled with his control (often, sadly), he was only decent. On the days he could hit the corners with the hook, however, he was just otherworldly and mesmerizing to watch. I think back in the Abstract days Bill James basically described it as follows - if Ryan issues 5 or more walks, you can get to him and beat him. If, on the other hand, he gives up only 3 walks or fewer in a game, you have no chance.

Ryan's curve was incredible to watch; just a tiny bit inferior to Blyleven's, but a very similar pitch. Huge, sharp 12 to 6 break.

52. The Id of SugarBear Blanks

posted on March 12, 2013 at 12:05 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

I saw Ryan in Three Rivers 1987 right behind the plate. Filthy.

Not quite at the level of Carlton's slider or Sutter's split-finger but still top-top-grade (in person from good seat witnessing required):

Fernando's screwball.
Jim Kern's straight over the top 1979 gas.
Ron Davis's between 3/4 and sidearm 1981 fastball that must have looked to a right-hander like it was coming from behind his back. (The Yankees' 1-2 bullpen punch of Gossage and Davis was ridiculous that year.)

53. depletion posted on March 12, 2013 at 12:57 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Dwight Gooden in his (brief) prime had a great fastball and that big-breaking hard curve. It was really hard for the hitters to recalibrate launch back from the fastball speed to hit the curve.
I watched the Sid Fernandez game that had no assists: every out was a K or a pop-out.

54. Perry posted on March 12, 2013 at 01:30 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

(Seriously though, didn't know he was reputed to doctor the ball. Is this a 'known' thing or is it just you pulling Andy's chain?)

55. vortex of dissipation posted on March 12, 2013 at 01:57 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Koufax relied on two pitches - his fastball and curve (he used a change, but it wasn't an "out" pitch), but both of them were exceptional. The Neyer/James Guide to Pitchers ranks Koufax's curve as #1 all-time, which is a nice weapon to have when you also have a fastball approaching three digits. But he'd use either the curve or fastball as an "out" pitch, and both were devastating.

Surprised that no-one has mentioned Christy Mathewson's fadeaway (screwball).

56. Squash posted on March 12, 2013 at 02:05 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Very much known. Bouton has some funny stuff on it in Ball Four, about how Ford could make a scuffed ball "sail, drop, break in, break out, and sing 'When Irish Eyes Are Smiling'." And when Elston Howard cut the ball on his shinguard buckle, "The buckle ball sang two arias from 'Aida'."

Ford also wrote about it extensively in his biography - he started throwing a mudball in the early 60s, then had the wedding ring/rasp made shortly after by a jeweler he was tight with to get a more controllable break. And the shinguards thing, and he tried to throw pitches in the dirt during between-innings warmups in the hopes of getting a scuff he could use.

57. Mayor Blomberg posted on March 12, 2013 at 02:31 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

From 77-85, as a reliever he had a batting line against of .201/.271/.289 .559 OPS, and a sOPS+ of 59

From 97-05 Mo had a batting line of .210/.262/.283 .545 OPS in the sillyball era. Add his post-season and the numbers go down while he closes to within ~12 innings/year of Gossage.

58. Ziggy posted on March 12, 2013 at 02:37 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

It may only have been for one day, but I'd like to nominate Kerry Wood's fastball.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOYME2Q4nAg

59. FancyPantsHandle glistening with foreign substance posted on March 12, 2013 at 02:51 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

And when Elston Howard cut the ball on his shinguard buckle, "The buckle ball sang two arias from 'Aida'.

Geez. I mean talk about tipping your pitches...

60. alilisd posted on March 12, 2013 at 03:20 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

coupled with the distraction of seeing what looked to be a trained water buffalo throw a baseball.

Bravo, Sir!

61. Jarrod HypnerotomachiaPoliphili(Teddy F. Ballgame) posted on March 12, 2013 at 03:20 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Randy Johnson's "Mr. Nasty" (as he referred to his slider)

I always thought it was called "Mr. Snappy" </nitpick>

Nobody called it anything until some copywriter put that line into his mouth for a commercial.

62. alilisd posted on March 12, 2013 at 03:26 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

From 77-85, as a reliever he had a batting line against of .201/.271/.289 .559 OPS, and a sOPS+ of 59

From 97-05 Mo had a batting line of .210/.262/.283 .545 OPS in the sillyball era. Add his post-season and the numbers go down while he closes to within ~12 innings/year of Gossage.

Impressive!

63. Fred Lynn Nolan Ryan Sweeney Agonistes posted on March 12, 2013 at 03:55 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Wake threw it about 65-68. Dickey averages 77, but sometimes throws it as hard as 80-82. I guess that puts Wilhelm around 71-74.

There's a good clip of Wilhelm on Youtube now, where he talks about it & throws it some. More of a sidearmer than I'd imagined, and that speed estimate looks about right.

64. Srul Itza posted on March 12, 2013 at 04:07 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Dwight Gooden in his (brief) prime had a great fastball and that big-breaking hard curve. It was really hard for the hitters to recalibrate launch back from the fastball speed to hit the curve.
I watched the Sid Fernandez game that had no assists: every out was a K or a pop-out.

God, this breaks my heart. Back then, the Mets were so much fun to watch.

65. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) posted on March 12, 2013 at 04:18 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

I watched the Sid Fernandez game that had no assists: every out was a K or a pop-out.

this game. To be nitpicky, there was one outfield assist when Joe Orsulak threw out someone trying to stretch a single into a double

66. Eric J can SABER all he wants to posted on March 12, 2013 at 05:08 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

And Rivera not only rarely pitches more than 1 IP, if he does he's likely to sit out the next day whereas Gossage might have pitched again right away.

For someone who's accusing Poz of misusing stats... you know you can actually look up things like this, right? 28% of Rivera's career relief appearances came on 0 days' rest, to 18% for Gossage.

67. The Id of SugarBear Blanks

posted on March 12, 2013 at 05:19 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

For someone who's accusing Poz of misusing stats... you know you can actually look up things like this, right? 28% of Rivera's career relief appearances came on 0 days' rest, to 18% for Gossage.

I didn't interpret the statement you're responding to as having said what you think it said. It's not who pitched on 0 days rest more frequently, it's who was more likely to have pitched on 0 days rest having pitched more than 1 inning the day before.

68. Eric J can SABER all he wants to posted on March 12, 2013 at 05:38 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

I didn't interpret the statement you're responding to as having said what you think it said. It's not who pitched on 0 days rest more frequently, it's who was more likely to have pitched on 0 days rest having pitched more than 1 inning the day before.

Ah, fair enough. That would either be a laborious examination of gamelogs, or a PI search... regardless, excessive nastiness retracted.

Still, it's probably worth pointing out that Rivera pitched more relief innings on no rest than Gossage, despite the fact that Gossage pitched more innings overall. The lengths of their appearances declined by similar amounts when pitching on no rest as compared to their other outings.

69. toratoratora posted on March 12, 2013 at 08:10 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Koufax relied on two pitches - his fastball and curve (he used a change, but it wasn't an "out" pitch), but both of them were exceptional. The Neyer/James Guide to Pitchers ranks Koufax's curve as #1 all-time, which is a nice weapon to have when you also have a fastball approaching three digits. But he'd use either the curve or fastball as an "out" pitch, and both were devastating.

And he tipped every pitch he threw and they still couldn't hit it.
That's pretty impressive. I remember reading an article with Pete Rose during the mid eighties and the interviewer asked him who had the best curveball. Pete didn't hesitate, "Koufax."

Meanwhile, I wasn't going to mention it until I saw a poster above mention Matty's fadeaway, but the best pitch in baseball history has to be Walter Johnson's fastball. One pitch made that man arguably the greatest pitcher ever.
He's Mariano, but throwing complete games.

70. Howie Menckel posted on March 12, 2013 at 10:26 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

"regardless, excessive nastiness retracted."

there goes the BBTF neighborhood!

:)

71. Mayor Blomberg posted on March 12, 2013 at 10:29 PM # hit 0 | hit 0

Enough already for the myth of Gossage back to back 3 inning saves.

Ages 26-37 IP/year:

Gossage 77 (ERA+ 148)
Rivera 74 (ERA+ 217) -- not including postseason.

the myth of the goose is ####### crazy.

72. Howie Menckel posted on March 13, 2013 at 06:59 AM # hit 0 | hit 0

The "myth" of Gossage is a spectacular peak, which is no myth at all. Then he hung around forever and was pretty good a lot and mediocre, too. Writers touting stats that are obviously disingenuous distract from real arguments, as do exaggerations like "myth of Gossage back to back 3 inning saves."

The funny part is that Mariano doesn't need parlor tricks and exaggerations - his numbers are great. Not sure why that isn't enough for his backers....

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Wednesday, December 12, 2012

2013 Results: Bonds, Clemens, Piazza and Biggio are elected to the Hall of Merit!

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